coryb27

Motorola, Icom, Kenwood all make new radios that can be set to wideband. Motorola uses Entitlement keys, Icom can be set in the options, Kenwood I think requires a key.

That's not a mobile repeater in that pic, its a HAM operating HF. As far as a mobile repeater it really is a waste of time. I have done this already and it was a total disappointment.. Unless your car is at a substantial height advantage you will not have any better coverage then simplex. Again you can and will try to explain or reason away my logic without listening to what I and others have been trying to tell you. I have tried the mobile repeater, the setup was a 50W Motorola SLR 5700 with a 4 cavity BP/BR duplexer connected to a 5.5dB gain antenna on the top of my truck. After testing for about month I realized it had no practical use and only offered slightly more range than simplex, best part I ended up needing a jump after a day at the fair. Mind you this was a $2400 repeater, $800 duplexer with an antenna that was tuned using an Anritsu S331D. I promise I nor anybody on this site will try to steer you wrong, I hold a Commercial, Amateur and GMRS license, own and operate several large repeaters and have all the gear for building, testing and maintaining these kinds of systems.

Don't get discourage by the lack of users in your area rather embrace the lack of and if no repeater is available in your area install one. I have learned if you build it they will come. Start a club or group, put up a web page, start a Facebook group for your area etc.. You will be surprised how quickly like minded people will get licensed to talk with others that share the same interests.

For sure Motorola On Line is a PITA, I dont know of anybody that would disagree. The equipment I spoke of needs no RIB and the stock USB cable does not require a driver. The Kenwoods are a great option but lack the features I wanted like the handheld control head, Bluetooth and WiFi programing. If i want to update my trucks programing I just leave the radio on and access it from my desktop. Again its all personal preference, its always nice to have options!

GMRS can not be used for business, not even as a backup to AT&T. The FCC will be happy to licences you for your business under the part 90 industrial pool, GMRS is for personal and family use.

Not sure what your advertising, GMRS has been around since the 70's, It can not be used for business if you where implying that. The local storm chasers will get some great use out of it, and you can always start a club or local group. As you can see by the web address in my signature we have a group with over 50 users. Are you installing your repeater on a high enough tower to provide an effective area for storm chasers?

Motorola gear is a pain to get programming software for but not impossible. I can take a week or longer to navigate Motorola's process but in the end you will have legal software and you can get the entitlement for wideband operation for free after some quick online training. I use Motorola for the options alone, in the truck I run handheld control heads and a long range Bluetooth speaker mic so I can use the trucks radio well in restaurants our friends houses. The same mic is also on my base paired with a desktop mic, its nice being able to go anywhere in the house and just carry a small mic that allows the use of the base. This gear is a little pricey but can be found used on ebay reasonable, its all comes down to personal preference. Bluetooth Mic that can be attached to most of the newer Motorola XPR radios including portables. http://mwgmrs.com/mygmrs/handmic.jpg This is the handheld control head, it is also the speaker and mic, 4 years old an not a single issue. http://mwgmrs.com/mygmrs/truck1.jpg Radio Head unit is installed under the back seat. http://mwgmrs.com/mygmrs/truck2.jpg The control head cable comes thru the map pocket allowing it to tuck away nicely out of sight. http://mwgmrs.com/mygmrs/truck4.jpg Simple 1/4 wave gives great performance, i am able to hit repeaters 30 miles away and simplex 10 miles easy in the freeway. http://mwgmrs.com/mygmrs/truck3.jpg

I would stay away from this radio, it has many issues and will not provide great performance as it is narrow band and can not do split PL / DPL. Its short comings have been discussed in the Equipment section of this site. Find a nice Kenwood TK-880 if you don't mind used otherwise ICOM and Motorola both make great part 90 Business radios both new and used that will preform nicely on GMRS. I run the Motorola XPR series and love the full display, 1000 channel capacity, unlimited talk groups, scan lists, long range bluetooth microphones etc...

I did not see anything about the Rino being able to use a repeater but i was not looking vary hard. I think the Rino has a great feature set for its intended market and for the right group or setting. I don't know of anybody into radio that likes Rodger Beeps or listening to Morse ID'er tones unless its CW on HAM. As far as MDC I can't explain it any better then it has been, enjoy this great explanation free from Wikipedia! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDC-1200

I will leave this right here http://mwgmrs.com/mygmrs/chart.jpg

I'm not grumpy at all, in fact i am a rather cheerful guy

As far as location its being done but as far as I know does not work on repeaters. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/533999 If you keyed up on my system with some rapid morse code every transmission I would give you the boot, I have no tolerance for Rodger beeps, fleet sync, etc. Lots of people use MDC to send unit numbers, around here we send the last 3 numbers of our gmrs call. Some groups send assigned unit numbers etc.. If you set your radio to decode MDC its silent and just displays it on the radio. PL is stripped so the users don't have to hear it. Commercial repeaters ID every 15 min. Can you imagine having to hear that for 8 hours a day.

If you program a Baofeng UV-5R to GMRS you need a GMRS licence. I see you understand that the radio is indeed a HAM radio and by the part 95 rules that your GMRS licence is authorized forbids the use of such equipment on GMRS. I won't get into all the details but here is the simple and best way I know how to explain this. Since no test or radio knowledge is required to get a GMRS licence its operating rules require certified transmitters to maintain the integrity of the service. GMRS is located within a tiny sliver of the part 90 commercial radio service used by business, ambulance services, fire depts, and well you get the picture. By using non certified low quality transmitters you risk causing harmful interference to other licensed services, if caught you will be held accountable. I am not here to tell you what you can and can't do but I hope you take something away from my ramblings because in the end the choice is yours.

Ok so here is two more issues to think about. First most people dont know Morse code, and second most repeaters strip the PL / DPL during ID so unless you are operating open squelch you will never hear it anyway.

I live in SW Wisconsin myself (Racine) I own or co operate several machines, 725, 700, 700, 550, 575, 675. Ingleside IL, New Berlin, Madison, Baraboo, Rhinelander and Union Grove. As far as operating under authority, this would imply a GMRS licence under authority of the issuing agency, or plainly the FCC. As such operators are required to ID by Rule of the issued licence. This term is used extensively by the FCC, you can find the definition on there site. I don't set an id on my systems for the simple reason if somebody gets on a repeater and starts breaking rules and jamming it up the last persons ID I want being broadcast is mine. Unless I am forced to by rule change I will never set and ID for this reason. Last reason is simple, its annoying to users on other repeaters sharing the channel to have some ID heterodyning during a conversation.

No the repeater is not required to ID, however the user is required under rule. This has been discussed many times on this site.

Why does every new license holder want to setup a repeater? I would like to shed a little light on some of the important things to consider if you recently got your GMRS license and now want your own repeater. First thing to consider, are there any open well placed repeaters in your area that you are able to use? I can assure you most repeater owners want people to use there repeater. Owning several repeaters I can assure you all are welcome and encouraged to use my machines. Do you have access to a location to host your repeater? If your answer is your garage roof you should reconsider. Your garage roof will give you about the same coverage as simplex. Unless you’re on top of a mountain and all your users are at the bottom you will never be happy with this setup. GMRS is not as popular as one would like to think, unless your repeater covers 20 miles or more you may find you only have 1 or 2 users in the area. Unless you already have a group of friends together you may want to consider this before spending money on a decent well positioned site to install your repeater. So you found a nice high site and the price is right, all you need to do is get the repeater installed, sounds simple right? Some thigs to consider first and foremost are the costs because they can add up quickly. Are you on a commercial tower that requires a license and bonded climber? If so this could be by far your largest expense depending on your area. I have spent $600 to $1200 on a climber; I have had quotes as high as $2500 depending on the amount of work and heights involved. Keep in mind commercial sites require certified mounts, hard line cable, cable clamps, engineered grounding solutions and commercial grade antennas. No tower owner is going to let you install a comet antenna and 200’ of braided shield coax. This brings me to my next point, the antenna. Because of the costs involved with climbers you will want to expend your budget on the antenna. Remember a $2000 repeater on a $200 antenna is going to work about as good as a $200 repeater. Whereas a $200 repeater on a $2000 antenna is going to work like a $2000 repeater. On my first repeater I was gifted use of a 150’ tower, I installed a DB-420 on the top and 160’ of 7/8 hardline. Total cost of equipment for the antenna install was $2500, with the climbers labor coming in at an additional $800. This left me with enough to purchase an old Motorola R100 repeater running at 25W. To my surprise it had 30 miles of coverage, all due to the cash spent on the antenna and waiting for a decent spot. Things happen, more so if you have an antenna 200’ in the air with a conductive cable connected to sensitive electronics. Antenna issues, feedline issues, repeater issues all cost money and I promise at some point you will have issues that need repair and require your money! It is my opinion that the GMRS community does not need another 2 to 5 miles repeater as it just becomes background noise. What use is a public listed repeater if somebody in a mobile can’t use it 5 miles away while moving or the portable coverage is only a mile? If after reading this you are still going to build a repeater for your garage more power to you, just don’t expect 20 people to show up if it only reaches a mile. As the owner of several GMRS and Commercial repeaters I can attest to the amount of money and effort go into my repeaters. I have only touched on the basics, if you add in any kind of testing services, duplexer tuning, addition of a combiner channel to an existing tower system, RF engineering, rent and insurance your costs can sky rocket. The best advice I can give any new licensee is to try and use the available systems in the area. Take the time to learn a little about what you’re doing and to assess the usability of the service before investing in a repeater for the sole reason of saying you own one.

I have not had or seen anybody have good luck running a dual band ham antenna on GMRS, In my personal experience the trusty NMO UHF 1/4 wave has given me the best performance for repeaters and hwy simplex use and most will cover 440 to 480. No issue with repeaters 30 miles away and regularly see 10 miles simplex on the hwy.

As soon as I see VFO its chances of having a valid part 90 spec go out the window.

I have not had any issues with Comscope, I can't say that for RFS, several have shorted internally. That cable job was to cure some issues with a paging transmitter next to me getting into the amp, it did solve the issue. I am sure i could have used something smaller but i had a ton of 1/2 on hand.

I don't know of anybody that champions the use, of Part 97 radios on GMRS. I have however championed the use, of Part 90 radios on GMRS as that service has as strong or stronger specs. Recent changes to the FCC wording state an operator my operate equipment that is certified in another service, part 97 equipment is not certified. Furthermore the FCC has commented about the use of HAM radios on GMRS and will enforce action if one is caught. You can read more below, I am sure others on this site will agree that non certified equipment has no place on GMRS. http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-turns-away-petition-to-allow-hams-to-operate-non-certificated-transmitters-on-gmrs

Great follow up! I was hoping this topic would generate some conversation. I personally don't own any repeaters that are less then full duty cycle and I dont use time out timers on the repeaters. We link several machines together using VOIP and at times the conversations can get long winded with many users engaging I have seen them go for 45 min or longer. In the beginning we set the TOT for 2 min and had different machines resetting at different times causing lots of missed conversations etc. After a year of that we went to a system wide TOT of 5 min and that's been working out great as all the machines will reset at once. As far as the repeaters, we only use Motorola MTR2000's of the 100 watt configuration. At full power these machines are designed for 100% duty cycle, so at our allowed 50 watts they are hardly breaking a sweat.

Not really, you can fight Midland to take them back as others have.

The MXT400 is narrow band and overall is not a great performer. I get 10 solid miles simplex on the highway using a Motorola XPR 5550 and a 1/4 wave thru mounted in the roof of a 2015 GMC pickup. The MTX400 and others in the lineup have been discussed in the equipment review section of this site. http://mwgmrs.com/mygmrs/truck3.jpg

I never read to the bottom of this thread, just wanted to share my 1/2" Heliax plumbing job on this part 90 DMR repeater http://mwgmrs.com/mygmrs/jumpers.jpg