PACNWComms

I still use a handful of Garmin Rino (530's and one 120, pre-micro SD card versions) when me and my family go out into the wilderness. Having the ability to "see" location on a map is beneficial....they are good little units. Although, I will not spend $500-700 on a newer Garmin Rino. I think they have gone a bit too far on features for the price on the newer series. I used the Garmin to augment the Motorola XPR7550e when in Billings, during an oil spill a few years back. UHF got out a bit on that side of the state, and almost as far when in Stevensville in the west.

I have a corporate site in San Antonio that still uses the Kenwood TK-3173, 450-490 MHz. They were purchased as they would work for licensed corporate use, and for the company Emergency Operations Center use in the GMRS band, having that Part95A certification as well. Part 90 is mostly being locked down to computer programming instead of front panel programming (most of the time, there are always exceptions), and this worked for that site. Soon, this site will be transitioning to Motorola Trbo XPR7550e radios, and Motorola just announced they may end production of that model next year, replacing it with a to be released model R7 radio, so there may be several hundred TK-3173's on the used market in that area in six months or so. The list you mentioned are great radios for analog use, but I also used to work as an engineer for the JVC/Kenwood Group/Zetron (still prefer Motorola), so am a little biased in this at times. I will now only spend money on older Kenwood, or current Part 97 radios from Kenwood.

I had a similar problem, having a silver car, but put a black lip NMO (new Motorola) type mount, and had a bit of contrast that I was not sure if I would like on this car. I already had the antenna and lip mount in black, and would have had to buy the chrome/silver version if I wanted it to blend better. However, the car has black trim anyway, and the exposed coax is minimal, and secured to the inside trunk brackets well. As for excess coax routing, I almost always go down to the floor, and run the coax under the inside of the rocker panels (or sometimes under the console in the center), there are always trim strips in plastic that come up easily at the sides of the vehicle, often containing factory wiring and are nowhere near airbags or their associated sensors. I am more of a function over aesthetics person, but also wanted to not have an antenna and coax so visible that it would be noticed. However, in this configuration most people think it is factory AM/FM, only one amateur radio type noticed and said it looked "nice". Good luck on your install and routing of cables.

And cheaper too, depending on accessories and all. I have a UV-5R and a GT-3 somewhere, but would have to dig/find them.....then probably get new batteries for them. At work, we have a "no Chinese radio" rule, as some sites were busted for using FRS/GMRS (pre-2017). The corporation uses Motorola, Kenwood and Icom radios, Motorola for public safety, Icom for aviation, and Kenwood for confined space radio use. So, the Surecom SF-401 Plus was only allowed as it was not a "radio" (transmitter), and there is a serious knowledge and learning curve with many of the radio technicians. Some never used a Radio Communications Service monitor before this job. Great point on the using a Baofeng for finding CTCSS tones, could be useful for many on this site.

Port Angeles to Neah Bay (locations of two coast Guard stations) there is an agreement to monitor VHF Marine Channel 16, but no formalized agreement on FRS Channel 1, but they also understand that there was a push for FRS Channel 1 in this area, so many carry Garmin Rino radios and do monitor. There is no legal binding agreement, only state, county, tribal type of interop as many people do carry FRS/GMRS gear when going into the wilderness. The remote listening stations, JPS Communications/Interoperability/Raytheon based equipment is also programmed to listen to FRS/GMRS, but that also includes software defined equipment that monitors pretty much everything HF to SHF, excepting DTR frequency hoppers. Some of my time in the military was spent in signals intelligence and spectrum management, and there are many technology capabilities that may not be advertised, and may also only exist in limited capacity and locations. There are places that are still rural with zero realistic coverage. Only something like Echelon type collection would take place, if someone was looking for you. Much of the West Coast states have also included radio direction finding capability in their more popular state parks, where being able to track a line/direction to a possibly lost person is expected. Many may not realize that public safety grade radio infrastructure, P25 radio systems, operate much like cell phones where the radios and the infrastructure know of each others location and status, so signals can be properly handed off between sites. This results in inherent tracking capability, even if it must be done somewhat "manually" digging for which site a radio is subscribed to, and via specific radio ID. FRS/GMRS lacks this ID in many cases, so listening stations can only give a frequency, signal strength and direction, which may still be helpful in a search.

Attaching a highlighted version of the "manual" ....well the one English page anyway, highlighting the portions with limitations and why it does not work with a cable directly between the radio and tester. I wish it did work this way, but it would need a better attenuator, and I am sure somebody would connect a 50 watt mobile to it at some point. There is always somebody that will do that type of thing to a piece of measurement or test equipment, at every price point. (flashbacks to my early career when engineers would put 50 watts to a 5 watt max connector on Anritsu/Hewlett Packard - Agilent/Marconi/Motorola service monitors). SF401PLUS-manualHighlighted.pdf

The land based ones are a great idea. Although when pricing the ones listed the Garmin unit fit my needs better, size and price wise. To each his own in this regard. The beacons are cheaper when compared to satellite phones, and some even have text message capability when tethered to a cell phone. My comment was to caution the use of the marine ones, as I know people that have boats, I am near many waterways, and many old spectrum/frequency beacons have proliferated the used market. I know some people that have bought the marine models used and think they are safer now, but they are on legacy systems that are not even monitored in some cases. A marine VHF with Digital Selective Calling (DSC) would be more useful in those cases on their vessel, and a Garmin beacon when hiking or skiing on land, but they just do not know how technology works.....so ignorance can be a problem. I have used the ACR beacons, and had to send some back to the manufacturer when information needed to be changed, some models have to be factory reset before re-programming.

Working for the oil industry, and marine side of that industry, I have worked with these for many years. These have also changed frequency, so there may be a lot of them on the used market in the older frequencies. I would stick with Garmin and consumer GPS and satellite based beacons, leave the dedicated maritime ones to maritime use. They are easy to use, as it is expected that when they are used, the vessel is on fire, sinking, or there is an abandon ship scenario taking place.

Only use it with its antenna. In the instructions, which are typical Chinese to English translation, they tell when to move the radio under test closer or further away to optimize the possibility of getting the correct frequency and tone (this is not a precision tool at about $50 in cost). Connecting the radio under test directly to the Surecom FT401 Plus will be like having the radio too close, and you may have to use the attenuator, and still get readings that are incorrect. There is the capability to use it with DMR radios as well, but that is not too accurate either. This is a cheap tool for getting close, when you do not have the ability to lug around an Aeroflex 3920. But, it is useful for finding the approximate frequency and tones, and doing several tests a few seconds apart gives you something useful. I have co-workers that often receive radios that they may not have programming cables or software for, and need to know if they are VHF/UHF/800 Mhz....and tones in use quickly, these work well for that. I tell them that a company issued smart phone and the model number, along with Google, work much better. I work for a large corporation where the radio shop is staffed with former electricians, and a few that have actually worked in radio....training could go a long way. Even joining these forums would probably help, but may confuse. For a $50 tool, it does help though, and for hobby use, makes a decent frequency/tone counter. If it was $100, I would say to get a Radio Shack scanner with near field mode instead.

With many organizations and entities using radios, as the price come down, and availability goes up......analog radio, and features that used to be marketed as options have become the norm. Sub-audible tones, Continuous Tone-Coded Squelch System (CTSCC) and Private Line (PL) as marketed by Motorola is now on almost all radios. Since many hobby users do not wish to spend large amounts of money on Radio Service Monitors, they are thousands to tens of thousands of dollars (Hewlett Packard 8920, and newer Aeroflex 3920 for example), I have often recommended the Surecom SF401 Plus tester. This small tester shows frequency and tones in use, if used, on analog radios. This, along with the Surecom SW102 wattmeter have become common items I have used when not working in public safety radio, or when I do not want to carry a large and heavy test set to check a radio that may not be as tight of spec as digital radios. I also tend to use Surecom gear when dealing with older analog only radios, as shown in the picture, working with Motorola EX600XLS handhelds that were shipped from a remote site, to my remote site at that time. I had no room for larger and heavier, and more expensive test equipment. I was given no information besides the radios, and what was shown on their display. There was no printout of the codeplug, no programming computer at the site, and no cable to read the radio. So, the Surecom tester worked well in this case. They are decent for hobby use, and cheap enough to afford if you do not working radio professionally.

I am in total agreement on this, and especially for a very low population density state like Wyoming. You may have better luck with AM CB in that part of the country. That was how I made contact with several people in trouble near Cheyenne, and that was pre-2017 when most blister pack radios were FRS/GMRS. The push for specific tones, channels and usage needs to be utterly simple.

I used to live in Wyoming, and know how it can be dangerous, even if prepared. +1 on what marcspaz mentioned about squelch......I always find it laughable when these campaigns push procedure or policy over something completely different, such as the fact that the area code for Wyoming is "307" so they are pushing radio procedure based upon that. This is like the three percenters and their 3-3-3 radio usage recommendations. Anything may be better than nothing, but I am seeing why in my part of the country, we just use FRS Channel 1 and no CTCSS tones.

If it were my antennas and radio, I would be fine with using them for GMRS. The GMRS band is right there in the middle of 450-470 MHz, so it would not be a big deal for me to go ahead and use them without a meter. My only concern would be if I could not hear/receive anything on the radio, as that would point toward broken connector, center pin or spring on the antenna to base connection, or some other broken component. While others may state that you must never use a radio and antenna combination without checking SWR, knowing what that antenna was made for, it is probably fine to go ahead and use them for GMRS, at your own risk of course. Those antennas and mounts may look pretty cool on an older car, for that retro look for sure.

In my case, I used Morse Code long before actually getting an amateur license. This was due to the military and the need to send code via HF radio. HF is the backup to satellite communications, or at least it was in the 1980's-1990's, with the Pacer Bounce HF radio system being fielded with military TSC series satellite communications terminals. Had amateur radio continued to require a Morse Code word per minute test, I probably would never have taken to test to get my "ticket".....as I wanted to do something else, different from what I did in the military with radio. Military radio usage is to get on, say what you want and get off, after all the longer you talk the more likely you will have someone direction find your location and take you out, at least in a war zone, or during an exercise. Earlier in my military career, VLF and short wave was also used to send a letter or two to contact another site, provide new orders, or direct action at a remote site. It was necessary to understand Morse Code, but not necessarily required to know it, as it was mostly call signs coming over the airwaves. Even today, embassy personnel and others often have short wave radios and other receivers where they need to have information communicated to them, but they are not "radio" people and Morse Code means nothing to them. However, playing a certain song, or a specific line of speech may convey meaning to them. For people like this, Morse Code may be a turn off, and to get an educated or knowledgeable user base, voice only is easier, quicker, and still viable with consumer grade electronics proliferating society. Think about the radios you can buy now, versus what was available in the 1980's. In the past, Morse Code may have been the only thing a radio could do, and it was expensive to produce large quantities of voice transceivers. I still do use Morse Code a little now for work, as it is easier to send one letter, or key a analog radio for a letter, or command. While I do not condone kerchunking repeaters, at least they are ones that I am responsible for, and those channel grants (trunked mode) still convey information when I choose not to talk. Only those that know Morse Code know what I am "sending" via those presses.

For one training evolution in the military, we used keyboards, and had to tell the trigger puller which letter or key to hit. I want to do this with Kenwood P25 radios every chance I get. After dealing with APX4000/XPR7550e radios for years, I now have to support APX7000/8000/8500's alongside Kenwood NX5300's. However, I have seen my share of XPR7550e radios where disgruntled employees have drilled the LCD display, scratched "BROKE" on the display, when another else was wrong, and used the radio as a hammer on something else to vent their frustration.

I used to use a drill press and later a hydraulic press to destroy hard drives for the oil industry. They did not trust the company they had contracted with to actually damage the hard drives (before possibly reading them first), so pressing them until physical damage was used. They also had me destroy CD/DVD material in an old microwave over, that method is even NSA approved for expedient use for that type of material.

I am amazed how many of these end up on online auction sites as well. Working on public safety radios much of my time, I sometimes save a little by using more "well healed" departments cast off gear. some of this comes from online auction sites, and once I received a broken Motorola MW520 mobile data terminal, sold as having a broken power connector. The connector ended up being the standard two prong Motorola power connector installed in mobile radios for the past forty years. Once the broken power connector was by-passed the computer powered up, and still had radio programming software, and reports from several years of use in a law enforcement environment. Out of professional courtesy, I contacted them and asked if they wanted it back, as the new connector only cost a few dollars. They declined, and I then warned them they should remove the hard drives of computer/radio related equipment before sale, as everything was valid and functional. Even licensed software for dispatch and radio control head programs. I was amazed to see this as I would have been fired to let something like this go to the public in my own work. As for individuals, many seem oblivious to what they keep on their computers and old hard drives as they upgrade computers. I do not bother to tell anyone anymore as they just think I am paranoid, and in their case "ignorance is bliss" to them. Then they wonder why their personal data gets stolen. I have even purchased working hard drives in external cases at thrift stores, purchased for the external drive case and a few dollars, that had years of information on them. Happy hunting, people will never really learn.

You could possibly use some of those. Many Larson 5/8 wave NMO antennas were for 450-470 MHz. I would definitely check with a meter and tune as necessary. I have used many commercial UHF antennas for GMRS use myself. If they are 450-470 MHz antennas, then they work great for GMRS with 462-467 MHz, right in the middle "sweet spot" for the antennas. However, there are some that are for lower UHF frequencies, 403-450 MHz, which will look a lot like the higher frequency versions, those will show higher SWR with a meter, and should not be used for GMRS. With the antenna being the most important part of using a radio, you do not want to fry a radio with a mistuned or different band antenna, it is not worth it to save a few dollars. But, that picture looks like they could be 450-470 MHz and great for GMRS.

My own personal computers top out at Windows 7 Pro, then Linux (Ubuntu and Mint)......but at work, I had to upgrade to Windows 10 for Motorola CPS compatibility. APX CPS version R25 and XPR (Trbo) CPS 2.110.120.0. These two version of CPS were needed for newer firmware APX and XPR series radios respectively. (I miss when XPR7550e radios would be programmed with either CPS 16.0 or CPS 2.0........16 was so much easier to use, and did not have the hex edit glitches, with the Microsoft mentality built in. I will have to play around with the Wine layer and Motorola programming when I have some time. I like Linux Mint, and was first introduced to that when I went to a recycled PC shop nearby and bought an eMac that was a mangers special for $75. The computer itself was worth at least $400, but did not have the Apple keyboard or mouse, and had a sticker over the camera stating that is was running Linux Mint, not Apple OS. I looked in nearby bins of keyboards and found an Apple one for $5, then the mouse bin and found one for $3. Then, for less than $25 shipped on and auction site, I had the Apple OS restore disk. I used Mint until the Apple OS software disk arrived, and found that I liked it. So, and old Toshiba that would have been scrapped otherwise ended up running Mint. It has since only been a web browsing computer though, have not tried radio programming with it.

Need to upgrade myself when time permits, thank you for sharing, will have to download HamStudy myself. Commercial radio is taking all of my time these days. Lots of sites going from P25 Phase 1 to Phase 2.

Most of the antennas on my vehicles are New Motorola (NMO), so they unscrew easily enough for car washes, that use rollers and cloth strips. However, the mounts vary from flush NMO to lip mounts for the hood and trunk, which is the same as many vehicles for my current employer. Maintenance teams are dispatched in trucks, SUV's, forklifts, and semi tractors. Many of the Chevy Suburban drivers would manage to find the one car wash in town that would tear off antennas, bust mounts, and the worst one was an 800 MHz "thimble" antenna, Laird Phantom type antenna, that was "grabbed" by one of the car wash cloth strips, and wielded like a sling, hitting the entire roof of the SUV, hitting it with the antenna and denting all over the roof. There must have been about thirty hits to that roof before the car wash was shut down. Luckily, this one had two people that would hand wipe down the vehicles to dry it beyond the fans, but the damage from the spinning cloth strips did thousands in damage. I do not use car wash machines that touch the vehicle, too much possibility for damage. Glad it worked out for you though.

I have tried the aluminum tape method, and chokes as well on sPod boxes. They look nice in the rig, and make it easy to add accessories, with switches that look like they came from the factory. But, that trade-off is that they are still an aftermarket accessory. I wish they had more metal in them, or a grounding pigtail for the box. Grounding may help, but as others have said, power may come from another area in different models of Jeep. Higher end LED's will help, I know many people that went cheap on LED headlight, that have the factory wiring harness, grounding, and physical connections of the incandescent stock version, but still interfered with radio audio. Going to higher end LED headlights then fixed the problem, based on the engineering in the higher end LED headlight elements. Good luck, it may take a few tries to find something that works.

What applies to ships at sea also applies to vehicles on the ground. Many years ago, after working on vehicle mounted radios for the military, I went to work for the oil industry, and radios aboard a fleet of ships. Well antenna gain issue cropped up often, as many think more gain means more "amplification" of receive signal, not realizing that it is also the radiation pattern impacting signal as BoxCar mentions. Very often, someone would place a 12 dB gain antenna on a small vessel and it had trouble talking to a larger vessel, even when in line of sight and close in distance. An isotropic antenna would radiate like a sphere, while a 3dB gain antenna may radiate like a doughnut, 6 db gain antenna like a pancake, a 9 dB antenna like a thick tortilla or naan bread, and a 12 dB antenna like an LP record. So, with a 12 dB gain antenna on a small vessel, and a 0-3 dB gain antenna on a large ship, the only reliable communication (due to height differences between vessels) is when the little one is bobbing around and the radiation (transmit for smaller vessel and receive for larger) match up. This is where height and a 0-6dB antenna are much more useful, as they both have transmit and receive patterns that can reach other stations. Power is also an issue, as more power in a more focused radiation pattern can mean more distance. Cars and fixed radio stations are impacted the same way. When it comes to wattage and a mobile radio, Part 90 radios in use by public safety, commercial use, and hobby use are often limited to about 50 watts. Motorola, Vertex, Icom, Kenwood, mobiles are often 25/40/50 watts. Attached is a lab kit for Radio over Internet Protocol, with a Motorola XPR4550 UHF 40 watt mobile shown. I used Motorola mobiles for GMRS, with my CDM1550LS+ at 50 watts. GMRS radios usually max out around 50 watts too. Radiation exposure specifications will usually specify 6 foot or so (sometimes less) of separation between people and antennas in the UHF range at 50 watts. 50 watts mobile, with RG-58, and the shorter run in a vehicle than up a high mounted fixed antenna will get you ten to twenty miles, depending on terrain and local conditions. I myself usually run about 10 to 20 watts mobile and have no problem hearing people, hitting repeaters ten miles away, and transmitting back. The radio tops out at 10 watts, my RG-58 cable run is about twelve feet, and I have a decent antenna on the trunk which acts as a good ground plane. If what you have works, then let that itch go to a basestation, or a handheld that can be taken when not in your vehicle. Glad to see someone else get further into this......GMRS has taken off over the past few years for sure.