PACNWComms

There is a thread going on about this right now.

I recall many of these types of incidents in the past. It was great when radio networks became "smarter" (and re-banding helped) as radios would then only affiliate with sites in their own network (SystemID). As you also mentioned, now it is hard even getting a UHF frequency pair assignment. Trying to get a pair for a dense RF environment right now. On the Tropospheric ducting aspect, I also worked tropo communications terminals in the military, with many experiments in prediction ducting, then came a company that bounced radio traffic off of meteorites. Lots of fun but esoteric types of propagation techniques. Washington State ferries to my north even had a statewide location reporting system based on the meteor bounce company, and two generations of that system were put into use. I am not sure if that is still used now, but it was an interesting technology to hear about, detecting a meteorite and using its ionized trail to bounce radio signals off the tail. Seemed to work for burst transmissions.

I recall when the first lawsuit came out, and former co-workers of mine had just bought Hytera radios to save some money, based on the fact that they worked perfectly with the then newly produced Motorola XPR6550 radios. However, I asked if they had tested them with something "smarter" than an old HP8920 RF Communications Test Set. They brought one to my office and we tested side by side Motorola versus Hytera, and there was a reason they were cheaper.....they looked similar, functioned similar, but to worse specifications. But, they were cheaper they said. Intellectual property theft should have consequences, but China only bears part of the fault. Schaumburg is a shadow of what it once was, producing very few Motorola radios in 2022. Outsourcing to Malaysia and Mexico has hurt Motorola in ways they have yet to understand. Thank you for sharing the news OP, this is something I have been tracking since it began a decade ago, and it is still interesting.

I have never used the UHF PCTEL antennas, but have used many of the 800 MHz, whips and "thimble" or Laird Phantom looking style of PCTEL antennas. The whip versions work well until our drivers smack something, then the base portion and the upper part just spin freely, the electrical connection is them broke. However, this is usually forklift drivers going into conex boxes, so we have had to instruct them to move the antennas to a horizontal orientation when they go into conex containers. The thimble version also help with this, at the sacrifice of some signal. Good antennas for their price point. If OP gets one that is less than 16 inches long, that should work.

You are correct on the unit itself not being locked, as that would display "Password" on the LCD if it was locked. However, it could be receiving on frequency and channel, with Busy Channel Lockout enabled. If you open squelch, can you hear radio traffic? I'll attach the user manual, maybe you will find something I have missed. That is an older Kenwood, but a great series when they are working correctly. Used often to build repeaters, and for out of band use. (Just stay away from TK-941's if you get into 900 MHz amateur use.) users-manual-125612TK760.pdf

Looks good. For the oil industry and many coastal stations, I have made similar setups. Except Sirio antennas were not available as easily in the West Coast of the United States, the local Marine VHF antenna of choice is made by Morad. UHF was then used for a command and control element, and Commscope antennas (DB-404-B), I still call these "paperclip" antennas from my radio youth, have worked very well for a very long time. Great combination there, and you show a very similar antenna stack. Just be sure to use low loss coax and weather sealant tape on the connections and you should get many years of VHF and UHF comms use out of that antenna system. Show pictures once you get it installed, may help show others here, and I am always curious to see myself.

I myself tend to start with handheld radios at first, because they are portable, and easy to have with you while traveling. Coupled with information from a site like this one, you program the handheld radio with local repeaters, chat with locals, and learn more in time. The issue with handhelds is that they are lower power, often have lower capabilities from mobiles, and for GMRS, may lack a removable antenna. However, if that travel is in a car, as BoxCar mentioned, you will lose a lot of signal in and out (transmit and receive) with a handheld in a metal car. Adding a better antenna to the outside of the car helps, but the higher power of a mobile radio will help even more for getting out. For listening, that better antenna mounted to the outside of the vehicle may be all that is needed. Either way, it is good to research repeaters and listen for frequencies actually in use in areas you travel. For a first GMRS radio, you may not even want anything that is programmable. Many of us, myself included started with "blister pack" radios that were sold in two packs, TalkAbout series, and others by Cobra, and Uniden. These are great for finding out what is local to you, but remember, trying to monitor while driving is going to cut your signal down inside a metal car. I then migrated to the Garmin Rino series of FRS/GMRS radios with GPs receiver. I still use these today, even though they are not programmable. What they are loaded with is what you get. Which includes 1/2 watt output on FRS channels, and 2 watts max on GMRS channels. In 2017, the regulation for FRS/GMRS changed and so did power output allowed, and capabilities and requirements for FRS and GMRS radios. My initial recommendation, until you decide to buy a mobile, would be to try a handheld in a car, with the window down, or sunroof it it has one. Then search around here in the forums for "rat tail" or counterpoise, that may help your transmit and receive signal with a handheld radio. That is the cheapest and easiest option at first. Find out if you enjoy talking with others, and can pick up other users as you travel. If you do, then a mobile might be a good idea, and external antenna on the car. You have lots of options and will get a lot of advice on here. What I now end up with is something like the picture below, but Motorola gear is costlier, and requires programming software and cables, you may never even want to get to that point. In my case, I have been in professional radio for a long time, and accrued a lot of gear over time, setting some up for GMRS use as I travel or commute. Good luck on deciding what to get.

I posted a similar combination, that I sometimes use on my vehicles. The antenna itself is a Laird QW450 NMO mount UHF, and is six inches long. The NMO magnet mount I use with it is the GB8UM mount that comes with a mini-UHF connector. Pictures are in the gallery under my screen name, if the attachment does not work. The mini-UHF connector fits Motorola UHF radio / mobile radios, but maybe not what you are using. Verify before buying of course. But, the 6 inch UHF antenna gets out very well for its size, and should on your vehicle as well, if you place it in the middle of the roof like your current antenna. It also looks like your current base is NMO, so it may screw right on. I go with Laird as I have used them for years and their build quality is great, but there are other 1/4 wave antennas that may work as well. You should not have too much trouble finding a UHF GMRS appropriate quarter wave that will be less than that sixteen inch length.

That is a 160 Ch Analog model. Same as what I use. Then it is just having CPs and the programming cable and time to program as needed. Great radios for GMRS. AAM25RKF9DP6AN

While I use Motorola CDM1550LS+ radios for GMRS, I know a few people that bought versions that were only 16 channel analog, so great advice here. Had I not owned them already (CDM1550LS+) I would have used CDM-1250's instead. They can be had for about $150 or so from SunnyComm, great vendor I have used a lot, and others online.

My original link was to get you started, seeing what it takes to get a safe mast that can be 60 (or more) feet high. Rohn makes many different sizes of towers. However, that height does require more than what you could probably get at Home Depot, or expect from chain link fence poles. However, it is your money, house, property, etc. Advice is advice, you can take it or leave it. https://www.cableandwireshop.com/rohn-45gsr-tower-4-foot-short-base-section-r-45gsrsb.html Poke around the website, or others, but Rohn is a very respected company in the industry of radio antenna masts. 60 feet is higher than what many people need, want, can afford. Depending on location, you may need permits, lights, painting the mast, and other items as well. Also, height should include the length of the antenna you wish to put on this mast, and the base that is going to be used. Good luck with your installation, be sure to post pictures whenever you complete the project, a 60 foot tower is something that I would be interested in seeing.

In several threads where I have posted about using Motorola DTR410's to monitor local Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum (FHSS) radios, many have said that this requires special equipment or knowledge. In my area of the country, Motorola FHSS DTR/DLR/DPL radios proliferated due to the overuse of VHF and UHF radios, such as FRS/GMRS and MURS equipment. However, most areas I frequent have defaulted Motorola FHSS radios in use, no special knowledge or equipment is needed, except another radio of compatible type. I leave mine on the default "Public 1" TalkGroup, as that is most often the one used (in my area and experience).....most radio users see everything as just a "Walkie Talkie" and charge it up, turn it on and press a side button to talk. On a similar note, I have an older monitor that went to a baby monitoring system made around 2000-2002 or so. With the proliferation of wireless video systems sold by a popular low cost tool store (which I do not recommend - buy Klein Tools, Xcelite, Wiha, Wera, Knipex....etc.) has also become useful once again. People default technology all the time, and this still applies to cheap radios for GMRS/FRS/MURS and amateur gear. The lowest common denominator still applies, often.

I am sure you will get an abundance of information on this site. To get you started though, use pipe that is intended for an antenna mast. Here are examples of what are easily and cheaply found online. https://www.cableandwireshop.com/50-foot-telescopic-push-up-antenna-mast-ez-tm-50.html

I used to be responsible for a fleet of AN/TRC-170 Troposcatter terminals, 6600 Watts would drop birds and kill trees (including pine trees) in the distance when used in Line of Sight (LOS) mode. At Timberline Lodge, I would rope off half the parking lot, and then see my signal drop when some fool would run over the flagging tape, knock over a dozen traffic cones and park their larger than school bus sized recreational vehicle right in front of my "Mickey Mouse Ears" antenna system. SatCom was a lot easier in that regard. After a week, there would be a path of dead birds and brown/red conifer tree in the distance....I did not like working LOS mode with those terminals. (Smarter birds would leave the area, it was always the robins and finches that were found dead, no eagles or crows.) Living in a pine forest then resulted in the development of UHF satellite communications, because, as you mentioned VHF has become saturated in many areas. VHF is cheap, but abundant, and I see that as well with UHF. UHF is also saturated (partially due to the proliferation of CCR's), and so is 900 MHz ISM band frequency hopping radios, as they were sold to every office and construction company in the region. That is also why I added a DTR410 to my suite of radios that I use to monitor local comms. All of this is driving many users to higher end and more selective radios though, which I see as a good thing. For GMRS, antenna height and quality can help, but so can a better radio. My minimum is Motorola CDM1550LS+ mobiles and HT750/1250 handhelds (but would use CDM1250's for mobiles if I owned any). It is all about the system or package, which can result in the system becoming more than its parts, if a person does not cheap out or cut corners. While CCR's may get people into the hobby, better gear will help, as will height and quality coax and antennas. Some of these forums have made me laugh with the justification of some of the worst RF emitters I have ever experienced, or lack of grounding, or lack of lightening protection with antennas/coax/towers/push up pipes connected to houses that would burn to the ground in a lightening strike. Pay attention to details, as those details may come back to bite you.....or you may get lucky and never have a problem.

That is a great radio. As is the XTS3000/5000 handhelds. My only issue with them, is that many of the organizations that use those radios, really used them, a lot. Public safety, fire, EMS and military. Be sure to buy them from someone/seller (I like SunnyComm) that actually checks them with Autotest capable test service monitors. Online auction sites often have ones that look good but have almost/or already failing internals. Much like many of the auction site XTL1500/2500 and XTS1500/2500's that have no functioning backlit display, volume only goes to 50%, speakers with metal shavings on the magnet, or cold solder joints on the: antenna, volume/on/off pot, and channel selector. None of these items will show on an Autotest, they require physical inspection. Good vendors will do both.

For cheap Part 90 radios, I used to run a tack (VHF and UHF) Vertex VX-3200 mobiles in my old Pontiac, as they fit the dash well. At that time, I also used stacked CDM series Motorola, and later XPR series Motorola mobiles. Now, i use a combination of CDM and XPR series mobiles (VHF and UHF single band radios), and they work very well. Of course you need Motorola CPS, and appropriate cables and computer to program them. For UHF GMRS you of course may have to dial them down depending on the power, I use 25 Watt radios for this reason, and get out well for most of my uses. For my current daily driver, I had a lot less room for radios, so ended up getting a Radioddity DB20-G, which is decent, but it is not Motorola for sure. Great little radio, but it is nowhere as sensitive or selective as a Part 90 radio.

I agree. Still use CDM series radios, and HT series as well. Great series, well built and still holding up in many cases. Recently, I was contacted by a "secret squirrel" special projects group that wanted to have me check their radio system. Luckily, they were in a shield room, with no public facing aspects, as they were still using HT600's in 2021 (narrowband requirement kicked in in 2013). HT600's were fully functional, but they said they could no longer find batteries (IS rated ones) for them. They may get placed into the corporate "radio museum" along with first generation Sabers and HT220's.

+1 on this. This is also what convinced my employer (through many arguments and meetings trying to beat this into their heads) to go with APX6000XE and up for fire. NFPA1802 is driving the requirements for firefighter radios to the XE (Exteme Environment) series as they are rated for five minutes at 325 degrees F. The new spec may move that up to 500 degrees F, based upon the death of firefighters in California in 2012, where the remote speaker mic cable melted, but the radio otherwise would have functioned, had that cable not melted. My own local corporate fire department just bought million dollar Aircraft Rescue Fire-Fighting (ARFF) trucks, but failed to budget another $20k for comms. I am now getting this as part of the Long Range Budget Plan (LRBP) for the replacement of ARFF trucks across the country. If you buy the truck, you need to include the cost of Icom aviation and Motorola XE series radios in that budget. Plus antennas, intercom headsets, etc. We will not be using XPR7550e handhelds for that type of work, even if the rest of the site is Trbo.

That 5 year timeline (plus 5 years of support) has been an issue in my field. But, in Motorola's benefit, it is also pushing my org toward an all ASTRO based system of systems, instead of a combination of HT-750 analog sites, Trbo XPR7550/e sites, and XTS/XTL/APX900/4000/7000/8000sites, kluged up networks spread across the country. Motorola has also pushed their competitors to do the same. However, the software as a service will be an issue if that portion continues. Some places do not want IT to merge with radio, and have the money to go elsewhere if needed. I know of one large system that went Tait, and is benefitting from that divergence from Motorola. My org is exploring that possibility as well....but has been Motorola so long it most likely will not happen. The first Motorola handhelds this company purchased was the HT220 Handie-Talkie FM Radio.

Some people/organizations may get further discounts, but here is some of my pricing with each radio being a Model 3 full keypad and display version, with antenna, single battery, belt clip, and single unit charger, single zone P25 Phase 1 FDMA with no AES encryption options: APX900 M3 $3116.00 APX4000 M3 $3392.70 APX6000XE M3 $4065.20 (this price is for P25 Phase 1/2 FDMA and TDMA with AES OTAR options) Then there is the XPR7550e M3 TDMA at $1006.40 (this org gets screwed on these, I tend to try to get new old stock instead at one third the price from a trusted vendor).