PACNWComms

I can credit Notarubicon for getting me into GMRS once again, after years in commercial and amateur radio. It was one of his videos on the new license process, and a Midland mobile. $70 dollars to the FCC via credit card, a couple of days later, I received the email with the new license. Then it was a couple of days and registering on this site,and confirmation maybe a day or two later. I recall some FCC database issue going on at the time, so it took an extra day somewhere in there to confirm call sign and become a member of this site.

These threads always show me why keeping my portable repeater private is so important. There is always an assumption that other peoples hardware is fair game, just because it is operating in "public" spectrum. Either there are many people that have never been "burned".....or society has become so used to certain things being public domain. While this site is a great resource for those getting into the use of GMRS radios, it will always be impacted/limited by certain expectations. With known spectrum, as well as tones, anyone with a little bit of knowledge can impact any repeater that they find. Take linked repeaters into consideration, you may have a user several states away. Then you have someone abusing the repeater, swearing, talking about business, or kerchunking all the time. How do you track down the problem? Or do you just shut off the repeater in the hopes the person ceases their action? There are many reasons to require phone numbers, call signs, shutting off Talk Permit tones, even signed agreements to access equipment. A call sign was needed to access this site. This website is owned and operated by someone else. You may find many more repeaters in your area in use if you scan for them, many that may not be listed on this site, as they wish to remain private, or for specific users. In my case, I have yet to find one that wanted a phone number, but many that wanted an email sent to them, with a Call Sign,. which can allow a repeater administrator to find that phone number, address, and other information if needed. Put one up yourself, and you will find out why some may want or need that number. Good luck on GMRS.

Need to come up with some sort of FCC betting chart on when they will actually enact the new fees. This is true at every level of government, always tending toward charging the citizenry. Time will tell when this happens. GMRS wise, I am good for another 9.5 years, amateur wise - to years left. So, it will be the amateur license that will be my litmus test, see if I end up paying for my re-newal.

I see this often, and the backup is usually something very low tech, such as a map, compass and protractor for location, and a cheap analog radio for RF comms. At work, I am going through this with some sites that think they need multi-band Motorola radios (APX8000) handhelds, which is hard to "sell" to those controlling the money when only a few people really need that capability, and get along with an 800 MHz radio on their hip and the other band in mobile radios in vehicles/office areas. The only "do everything" type of radios I have used were Harris AN/PRC-152/117 mobile/backpack series radios, and the backup to them was another of the same radio. Luckily, GMRS is a lot cheaper with many more options.

To add in for the dual serial numbers you noted, those are for different boards inside the radio for NXDN and P25. Different manufacturers made each board, then they get placed Lego style inside the chassis as ordered. You wait too many software revisions later to upgrade licensing to actually use that P25 board, and the radio needs to be sent to Kenwood for a new P25 board with newer firmware that will actually take the Kenwood generated license to activate that function at that time, then find out you are out that money if the radio does not work in P25 as needed, when needed. The idea was to be eligible for federal grant money for P25 capable radios for public safety, with the intent to be like Motorola and their Entitlement ID's for CPS, or unlocking features within the individual radio.

From my time as an engineer with in the then JVC/Kenwood Group, the idea was that Kenwood radios could be software/firmware upgraded at a later date to P25 specification if needed, as the hardware already met spec in order to get grant money for public safety entities. Kenwood could beat the competition on price, and smaller municipalities had a radio that could in theory be upgraded to P25 capability for actual use, but still had enough hardware compatibility for those grants. You could save thousands per unit, and still con the government into receiving grants. The problem with this, is too many Microsoft software engineers that lacked radio knowledge and experience. It was common for a radio that later needed to actually work in P25 spec, to need to be sent to Kenwood for hardware/firmware/software upgrade to actually work in P25 mode. Also why there are so many 5000 series radio models as they broke model out by what was actually shipped. Sort of like having another car model for each option package you bought. Kenwood lost a lot of "street cred" with these situations. Including me, seeing it within the Group. Some situations also involved running out the warranty clock on fixing those problems. This happened with: Viking, EFJohnson, Kenwood, Zetron, and JVC video divisions.

I totally agree. The first step should have been a Rino compatible device, then branch out if it proves popular. MURS was probably offered for long range and no license required, and that was the end of discussion in some corporate meeting. I would buy one in UHF band for sure. I need that for my part of the country. In hind sight, I should have bought stock in Garmin, with all the money I have spent on their products over the years.

Was waiting to see this comparison at some point. Thank you for posting. That bigger display also means less likely for my employer to purchase these for "fire" personnel. The biggest deal breaker though is the Motorola Trbo Ion series accessories that the R7 uses.

This is a reason why trunking in various forms, as well as additional waveforms have been created. Imagine this happening in a war zone where many of the participants have two or three radios all trying to communicate within the same spectrum. It can be like having hundreds of GMRS radios operating in an area with all the receivers set for CSQ. Then you add some with PL tones, and have your experience. However, there is still RF, on frequency. This can have a negative effect when you get a lot of users in close proximity, strongest radio usually wins. Then with newer digital waveforms and encryption (military radios) some can suppress their carriers into the noise floor, frequency hop, and use different modulation to act like different types of PL tones to clean up the mess a bit. Some of this technology is also experienced in commercial radio, Motorola Trbo series with RAS keys, and Basic Pricavy settings for example. But, in simple terms, strongest signal usually wins (except in P25, where a cheap low power Baofeng can knock out a site, due to the term "assured [voice] communications").

I have run fender and trunk mounted antennas on several cars, with good results. While not the best position as the ground plane is not equal, use the shortest cable run necessary, do not kink or bend the cable beyond bend radius, use the correct connectors and fewest adapters (if any), and give the antenna mount a good ground to bare metal. These methods will still get you great range for UHF and other bands. I manage 12-16 miles with a twenty watt DB20-G mobile and a Tram antenna on my rear fender. The antenna does not extend above the roof-line. Picture in my gallery page, as well as VHF and UHF antennas on previous car running a 45 watt Vertex VX-3200. Fender mounts will work, with just a little impact from its position. Mount your antenna to the fender and then report the results here, so others can learn from your install. Each vehicle and hardware install is different, but can provide insight to others.

Here is a link to a good source for television channel and frequencies used. Vertical separation is the best method if you need two antennas, television and other UHF, in close proximity. I use vertical separation myself in commercial radio (mostly 800 MHz), and for the UHF antenna underneath my VHF antenna of my house. The issue I have is when I use two slot Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA), Motorola Trbo radios in digital mode, you will hear the TDMA "flutter" sound of time slot switching in speakers of many nearby computers, radios, and television sets. This noise will only be noticed if you are using DMR (Digital Mobile Radio) though, so analog GMRS would be fine. https://www.rfwireless-world.com/Tutorials/TV-channel-frequencies.html

Great series of Vertex radios, the VX-4200 series. When working for the oil industry, these were the "go-to" radio for a fleet of small (less than 72 foot vessels) that needed commercial radio comms on board. This was also based on the caveat that corporate had decided to end the installation of radios in smaller vessels, and vehicles to save money. The (corporate decision-makers) thought was that handheld radios could hit everything that was required in all roles, in that case, handheld Motorola PR1500 VHF radios. However, the West Coast required repeaters and radios with more output power than a handheld radio, so Vertex VX-4200's were used as a "cheap" option that could escape the corporate types scrutinizing the budget. We did not use the scan function activating on hanging up the mic, and often tore the small wire off the mic mounts when the radios shipped with that version. Other came with a separate piece of wire to connect to the mic holder. The only issue we ever had was the metal cases would rust when left in "open house" style vessels, where the radio was exposed to the elements. Great write-up on this radio. It would be a great mobile to use for GMRS. For 14 years, I ran the older and slightly smaller VX-3200 VHF and another for UHF, stacked in my car for commercial and GMRS use. My only warning about using the VX-3200/4200's is that some of them are not capable of narrow band operation (12.5 kHz) operation, as there was a problem with some of the filters during manufacture in Japan. High humidity meant that they would only work in wide band (not a problem for GMRS). For a while, Motorola would fix them, later ship replacement filters, and then stopped supporting them. These radios with faulty narrow band filters were the last of the VX-3200, and first run of VX-4200 radios (made before the narrow band mandate of January 2013), being supported by Motorola when they purchased Vertex. (There were also some issues with some Motorola and Icom radios that used the same filters).

+1 on the CDM1250, or in my case CDM1550LS+ as I already had them. Since you are experienced with radios, commercial gear will server you very well at the power you want (50W). Although, I also use a Radioddity DB20-G mobile as a base and as a mobile. Had to get two as they work pretty well for price and size. Went with a new vehicle and stacked VHF/UHF Vertex VX-3200's would not fit the new car, DB20-G would fit into dash like it was meant to be there, so it is my mobile. Liked how it worked and programmed, so got one for base station. However, already had little portable power supply with radio stacked on top, made of Motorola CDM1550LS+ and another with XPR5550e mobile, which do work a lot better, just larger and heavier when moving around. For oil industry I used to make a lot of mobiles attached to power supply as portable base station good for 45-55 watts in UHF/VHF....many ended up in hurricane response trailers, staging sites, and command posts. Good luck on making a GMRS base station, and in my own opinion, for base station use, I always try to get a desk mic.....as it just feels better than the mobile mic for use in vehicles. That makes the radio "feel" like a base station.

Outside of license costs, I am glad that the hardware has come down considerably over time. Old school amateur/GMRS radio thirty-forty years ago was very expensive. Now, a person can get started for a fraction of the cost. Saying this as I look at my old 1980's Cobra 2000 GTL AM CB radio that has aged like wine, and is now worth about $1200.......when I paid $400. Or the Realistic Pro-2006 scanner that used to sell for $400 in the early 1990's, now worth about $50-100. My first true FRS/GMRS radio was the original Motorola TalkAbout, and those on sale cost $50 each, so $100 to get started since I needed a second radio/person to talk to. Now, they proliferate the market at the price and lower.

I know people that have delayed renewing licenses due to these cost (commercial radio is a lot more expensive). I myself hesitated a bit, but then thought about it in terms of dollars versus years the license is valid. The, it doesn't seem so bad. Although, adding fees for the amateur side where there was none before, while still making me print out my own hard copy annoys me a bit. But, the fees do pay for some of the documentation, administrative work, and keeping up the database.

I recall when my previous employer in the oil industry started to receive Motorola Trbo XPR8400 repeaters and XPR6550 handhelds. I used my Aeroflex 3550A test set to check for receive sensitivity (UHF), which was between 0.17-0.20 uV. My boss said "I don't believe you", so he walked down to the lab and grabbed a few handhelds and checked for himself. He was impressed, as previous radios (Motorola PR1500's) were no around 0.25-0.35 uV, everything else being the same. In spec for UHF, but not as good as the digital capable handhelds. The XPR8400's and Quantars were essentially the same, with the XPR series repeater having digital capability, it was a one for one swap infrastructure wise. Those surplus UHF Quantars ended up in many local Auxiliary Communication Service (ACS) roles ever since (this was around 2010 or so). Quantars are one of the best repeaters ever made, and will serve any person or organization well.

As a former Zetron/JVC/Kenwood Group engineer, I'll second the, "I'll spend my money on Motorola first" epiphany, due to real world experience. Great write up on the details and advice given here. Currently, I am sitting on about 100 corporate Quantar repeaters, 800 MHz units that served the company well for a decade, only to be replaced with GTR8000's as a planned replacement/upgrade. They sit in storage until a new site needs to be stood up, as they just work. I mentioned how they were the "cockroach" of the radio world when corporate wanted me to surplus them, as they would probably still work throughout the next ice age, doing their job until something physically breaks. Sadly, 800 MHz spectrum is becoming hard to come by, and I wish they had been UHF 450-470 MHz Quantars, as they would be more useful to me now in 2022. Like the OP, I will not be getting rid of any of my Kenwood gear either, but look at the use case and decide from that what to spend. (Often being Motorola, but I did buy a Radioddity GM-30/DB20-G package and an Anytone AT-878DUV II Plus a while back as well.) Also a +1 on SunnyComm, has worked with them for many years as well. Out of several hundred radios, only two were ever received in non-working order, both due to damage in shipment. However, they made good on them, and have a great repair policy as well. Will continue to work with them as much as possible. Great people, and business there. (I have made purchases on behalf of my employer and my own hobby use with Used-Radios.com/SunnyComm.)

+1 on this.....but then there is the joke, just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should do something. I once saw in the military, a Marine connect about 100 feet of RG-58 coax onto an Icom IC-F43GS handheld radio. Upon further inspection, I noticed it was not even a continuous length of coax, but several lengths of RG-58 with BNC connectors and barrel adapters in between each segment (and adapter at the antenna connection to the radio). He wondered why he could not hear anyone or get out during transmit. This became a training moment on radio theory and coax line loss.

I'm in the process of going through a similar audit for my local mall.....as the noise floor continues to go higher and higher. This was after a corporate user was found using FRS/GMRS Midland T70 radios, when licensed spectrum was being used by the previous license holder, instead of my corporate users, as they heard radio traffic on those radios and channels/frequencies. In many areas, it is common for end users to not know the status of their licenses, and continue to use the radios and system after a license has expired. Part of that is the lack of enforcement and compliance inspections, poor record keeping, lazy radio shop workers, and other factors.

+1 on this. Sunny Communications a.k.a. Used-Radios.com is a great company to deal with, and will get you what you need. Have dealt with them for years and spent more of my and corporate money than I probably should have with them. In many cases they are the only ones still sitting on product, even if slightly older gear from Motorola and other manufacturers. I also recently used them to prove a point to my current employer: pay full price direct to Motorola and wait six months to receive the item, buy from a local Motorola reseller for a little less and wait a few months, or go to Sunny Comm and buy current stock at one third the price as "new old stock" in their current stock, receiving the item a week later.

What interests me in this thread are two things, first is that many people seem amazed when they get an inferior product from Amazon (this has happened to me a few times and I now refuse to buy radio cables from that source. Second, is how many people are buying radios that do not come with a programming cable. When I purchased my GM-30 handheld and DB20-G mobile, as a package, the package had the correct cables for programming both. The cables were the Prolific type, which meant getting the correct driver, but I had experienced that with some Baofengs years earlier, so not too much of an issue. One reason I bought the Radioddity package was because it came with the programming cables.....I like to have one cable per radio for my Cheap Chinese Radios, as few of them that I have, as they sometimes go in different directions or are loaned to friends. Getting the package means a higher likelihood of getting what you need correct.