SteveShannon

I have two radios that can be configured to transmit and receive on the 467 main channels. One is a Part 90 certified (an Alinco) and the other is Part 95E (Radioddity DB20G), so that’s not a problem. Even if it were, that would have been a technical problem, not to be confused with regulations. As Marc said, the regulations are very clear. * Fixed Stations may transmit on the 467 MHz Main frequencies. * Fixed Stations may only communicate to other Fixed Stations (which may be singular or plural), which means they may not communicate through repeaters. * Fixed Stations may transmit only on either the 462 MHz Main channels or the 467 MHz Main channels. Therefore, in order to receive signals from a Fixed Station, a Fixed Station must be able to receive on either the 462 MHz Main channels or the 467 MHz Main channels. Enough portable GMRS radios have been made into repeaters that apparently they are able to receive on 467, so it’s not quite the hole you think. Therefore, Fixed Stations may operate in either simplex or duplex. * Fixed Stations are defined to be in a fixed location. (That is not affected by what the radio was marketed as, as long as it’s compliant with Part 95E certification.) * Fixed Stations are required not to transmit greater than 15 watts power output. Your statement that I don’t care about intent completely mischaracterizes what I said. The regulations do not specify an intent and I’m just not going to go into analysis paralysis about what the FCC might have meant with an unspecified intent or whether they even had such an intent. We only have the general Personal Radio Service definitions and regulations and Part 95E definitions regulations to work with. Past regulations that no longer exist are meaningless. Regulations or definitions for other services are meaningless. Guessed at or imaginary intentions are meaningless. For GMRS Fixed Stations, the FCC created the definition and established limits around it. We simply need to work within the limits in order to be compliant.

This one's on me. I should have just left it at the other thread.

Good job! It's satisfying when that happens, isn't it?

I agree with that mostly. My two disagreements are these: Fixed Stations may communicate with more than a single Fixed Station, but I agree that they may only communicate with other Fixed Stations. Perhaps I'm being too picky about your wording. I'm that way. Stations are no longer licensed under GMRS. Individuals are. There may be some "fixed stations" that are grandfathered and include a location on their license, but the only licenses issued now are to individuals. "Fixed station. A station at a fixed location that directly communicates with other fixed stations only." That clearly doesn't say "licensed to a particular location." I don't doubt that for other services it could mean that it's licensed to a specific location and very possibly even grandfathered GMRS licenses might include a location on the license.

Fixed Stations may transmit on either the 462 or 467 MHz Main Channels, but they're limited by definition to communicate with other Fixed Stations only, so they may not use repeaters. "(a) 462 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, repeater, base and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. The channel center frequencies are: 462.5500, 462.5750, 462.6000, 462.6250, 462.6500, 462.6750, 462.7000, and 462.7250 MHz." "(c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with § 95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz." "Fixed station. A station at a fixed location that directly communicates with other fixed stations only." As far as intent, it can only mean what the code (regulations) reflect. It cannot say one thing and mean another. And it cannot be mum to intent and be interpreted to intend something. You want an example. I used my imagination and gave you one that complies with the regulations. You reject it because it didn't come from FCC. The thing is, the FCC could not possibly provide examples for every use case and shouldn't be asked to. They provide limits, we stay within them. Everything that fits within those limits is fair game.

Fixed Stations are not a special case of base station usage. As such it wouldn’t make sense to mention Base Stations when defining Fixed Stations. Both Base Stations and Fixed Stations are required to be located in fixed positions. That’s why base stations are not mentioned in the definition. Fixed Stations do not have repeater privileges; they may only connect with other Fixed Stations (that’s established in the definition https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/section-95.303) Probably the chief benefit of being a fixed station over a base station is the access to the less cluttered 467 MHz channels. I don’t believe you could “seamlessly switch back and forth.” I think you have to make a choice but the FCC doesn’t define that part well. It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks the FCC meant if it’s not spelled out in code. As long as my imaginary example or anyone else’s complies with regulations and fulfills a need it’s relevant.

Then I think we’re in agreement. The thing that I think hangs folks up about Fixed Stations is that they don’t seem to fit any particular utility commonly identified with GMRS. But one of the ideal uses for GMRS is for communications on the family farm. The entire family can be covered under a single license even though they occupy multiple households I worked for such a family right out of high school: four brothers and their parents. This family could each have a Fixed Station, dedicated to communicating only with the other households on their Fixed Stations. Now under the regulations they could not communicate with any other radios, but for dedicated communications between houses or barns, shops, or other outbuildings on the farm, on the less monitored 467 MHz channels, and possibly using directional antennas, and a pretty effective family communication network could be established

I’ll try to rephrase my response from the other thread. The FCC gives us this much: A Fixed Station is a station in a fixed location which communicates only to other Fixed Stations. 95E defines GMRS usage of Fixed Stations in these areas: 15 watts or less and may only be used on certain channels. Fixed Stations are explicitly permitted to transmit on the 467 MHz channels A station is defined by its usage. So, a radio sold as a portable, can be repurposed as a Fixed Station as long as the operator complies with the rules.

I agree. Fixed stations are clearly not intended for communicating with unknown stations. I’d be happy to continue this discussion in your other thread.

You’re wrong. Any station, installed in a permanent (fixed) location, can be a fixed station. A fixed station is a station installed in a fixed location which communities only to other fixed stations. Whether the manufacturer designed it for use as a base, portable, or hand held makes absolutely no difference as long as the operator follows all the regulations for a fixed station.

I do too!

Great first post! Welcome to the forum.

A mobile station installed in a house (fixed location) and communicating only to other mobile stations in fixed locations would be fixed stations. Of course all those mobile stations would have to comply with the other rules regarding fixed stations, such as power output.

Your understanding is incorrect. You may only transmit on the 467 MHz frequencies when communicating through a repeater, for doing very limited testing, or between two fixed stations.

Specs and drawing of Pasternak N barrel connector. VSWR maximum of 1.3:1 from DC to 11 GHz. https://www.pasternack.com/images/ProductPDF/PE9006.pdf They have others at up to $96 apiece that are 1.2:1 up to 6 GHz. Unsurprisingly, their UHF bulkhead connectors are rated 1.3:1 but only up to 300 MHz. We really should all be using something other than UHF connectors for GMRS or 70 cm.

Yes, I knew exactly what you meant when you discussed using air as the dielectric. I could do a two port analysis also from one end to the other. But probably not today. ? Also I would want to look at N barrel connectors.

Thanks! I studied it for a while. That helps, but I’m even more curious how one would look on an analyzer to see how one tests versus theory. Theoretically they should be close! ? Happy Easter!

You become a premium member by paying $50/year.

I’d be interested in seeing what one of the eight inch barrel connectors looks like on an analyzer.

Simplex is not prohibited on the 467 MHz channels. The regulation doesn’t even imply that. The regulation simply limits which radios can converse with each other in those channels. Two fixed stations could chat with each other in simplex all day long on 467 MHz channels.

It really depends on where you are and what you’re doing. I only use GMRS to talk to friends and family when we’re engaged in a shared activity, such as at a rocket launch or on a hike. I don’t have any interest in random conversations on GMRS with people I don’t know. To me that’s something I would do within my ham activities. I only use my call sign on GMRS to be legal. Everyone in my group use first names.

When you change from channel or memory mode to frequency mode, the frequency does not correlate to the channel. It’s the last frequency you were on. For instance, you tune your radio to 443.675 and then you change to memory mode. The last channel you were on in channel mode is where you’ll be. Then change to a different channel. Then, if you change back to frequency mode, you’ll be right back at 443.675, the frequency you were using before changing modes.

Never mind the fact that Huawei actually makes chips designed to connect wirelessly to the internet and manufacturers were buying them by the literal boatload and embedding them in computers where their owners were telling them their SSIDs and passwords and where they were ideally situated to spy on whatever activity took place on the computer. Never mind the fact that your cellphone is also connected full time to a network and has a gps built in and carries your most intimate pictures and messages. If you fear your Baofeng UV5R then logic dictates you simply must avoid every Chinese made electronic device, because they are all being manufactured under the same control of the Chinese Communist government that would co-opt Baofeng. Fortunately, my Garmin was made in Taiwan.

You are. But not all of the FRS frequencies are limited to 0.5 w ERP. Why not use the frequencies that allow 5 watts? Here are the frequencies: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E/section-95.1763 Here are the power limits: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/section-95.1767

LMR-400 loses 2.8 dB/100 feet or 1.82 dB at 65 feet. The insertion loss for that duplexer (from the B2WR website) is 2 dB. 1.8 plus 2 is 3.8 dB, so you lose 58% of your power between the radio and antenna. Here's a discussion about that same duplexer from about a year and a half ago: