Question: Paid Subscription Repeaters?

[wilbilt62]

14 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

If a means of emergency communications is truly important, other members of the community should be willing to help pay to do it right.  

If I could find someone about 5 miles north of my location willing to host a repeater site, I could likely scrape up the cash to get it done. I don't think it would meet the goal if I did it where I am.

These are small, rural communities in a low-income area. One has about 2,500 residents and the other (where I am) has about 350.

[WSHH887]

I have set up sort of an network in my neighborhood.  Now mind you geographically it's an area of about 4 blocks north to south and 6 blocks east to west.  Not a large area.  In addition it is a long established neighborhood with a lot of older residents who have been here for decades. It's a mix of Los Angeles City and unincorporated Los Angeles County.  Jurisdictional issues are fairly frequent with both agencies at times saying it wasn't their area.  Sadly, typical for SoCal today.

This was motivated by a home invasion not long ago.  The mother and child were home alone in the evening.  It took the LAPD over an hour to respond.  She did get a hold of a neighbor a few doors down after about 10 minutes on 911 hold.  By then the invaders had left.  

The idea is simple.  Folks have GMRS  handhelds.  We have a dedicated frequency.  There are a lot of retired folks who can monitor the frequency.  There currently isn't any established roster of who and when.  But turns out there are more than enough to have it covered 24/7.  

Had our neighbor just called on a radio there could have had several "experienced" guys there in a minute or two at most.  Most folks who are on the network have bought their own HT's.  For others several of us have donated HT's.  

Obviously not everyone is onboard.  You still  have folks who insist that the police can protect them.  This with clear evidence to the contrary.  Now there is nothing on paper.  No one has a list of folks or anything else.  But it has already proven useful in several "property" crimes.  Just neighbors helping neighbors.  A lot like it was when I was growing up.

Back then a kid got banged up (happened frequently when we used to "play" outside) you could go to any house and the adult there in would take care of you.  Today that rarely happens due to fear of litigation.  

[wilbilt62]

3 hours ago, WSHH887 said:

I have set up sort of an network in my neighborhood.  Now mind you geographically it's an area of about 4 blocks north to south and 6 blocks east to west.  Not a large area.  In addition it is a long established neighborhood with a lot of older residents who have been here for decades. It's a mix of Los Angeles City and unincorporated Los Angeles County.  Jurisdictional issues are fairly frequent with both agencies at times saying it wasn't their area.  Sadly, typical for SoCal today.

This was motivated by a home invasion not long ago.  The mother and child were home alone in the evening.  It took the LAPD over an hour to respond.  She did get a hold of a neighbor a few doors down after about 10 minutes on 911 hold.  By then the invaders had left.  

The idea is simple.  Folks have GMRS  handhelds.  We have a dedicated frequency.  There are a lot of retired folks who can monitor the frequency.  There currently isn't any established roster of who and when.  But turns out there are more than enough to have it covered 24/7.  

Had our neighbor just called on a radio there could have had several "experienced" guys there in a minute or two at most.  Most folks who are on the network have bought their own HT's.  For others several of us have donated HT's.  

Obviously not everyone is onboard.  You still  have folks who insist that the police can protect them.  This with clear evidence to the contrary.  Now there is nothing on paper.  No one has a list of folks or anything else.  But it has already proven useful in several "property" crimes.  Just neighbors helping neighbors.  A lot like it was when I was growing up.

Back then a kid got banged up (happened frequently when we used to "play" outside) you could go to any house and the adult there in would take care of you.  Today that rarely happens due to fear of litigation.  

I grew up in So Cal (Simi Valley) in the 1960s and 1970s. Back then, the "neighborhood moms" would help you out if you rashed your face on the pavement. My wife and I left there in 1985 and moved up north to the "wild west", we we still are today.

Today, my "neighborhood" is about 12-15 miles north to south and about 6 miles wide. Much of the area has very few services. In the southern portion, there are no stores, gas stations or retail businesses of any kind. Law enforcement response was measured in hours or even days until recent years.

We are basically on our own down here. Many live behind tall fences and locked gates, because the tweakers will rob you blind given half a chance. BTW, I have some "experience" and don't play that game.

In the rainy season, the roads flood every year and we are cut off from anything. In the summer, fires are a constant danger. This is why I would like to establish a radio network for emergencies.

There are several established repeaters that easily cover this area, but the owners are all "mine, mine, mine!" centric.

It is pretty sad, actually.

 

[The219]

9 hours ago, wilbilt62 said:

I have actually thought about it. Unfortunately, my location is not ideal for what I would be attempting to accomplish. I would be trying to establish a means of emergency communication between two small communities about 10 miles apart in a rural area. Simplex on HT likely won't do it.

Then like OffRoaderX said purchase your own repeater and hardware. This site has them for sale, you could support this site and your local small communities, all in 1 swoop.

[Socalgmrs]

4 hours ago, wilbilt62 said:

I grew up in So Cal (Simi Valley) in the 1960s and 1970s. Back then, the "neighborhood moms" would help you out if you rashed your face on the pavement. My wife and I left there in 1985 and moved up north to the "wild west", we we still are today.

Today, my "neighborhood" is about 12-15 miles north to south and about 6 miles wide. Much of the area has very few services. In the southern portion, there are no stores, gas stations or retail businesses of any kind. Law enforcement response was measured in hours or even days until recent years.

We are basically on our own down here. Many live behind tall fences and locked gates, because the tweakers will rob you blind given half a chance. BTW, I have some "experience" and don't play that game.

In the rainy season, the roads flood every year and we are cut off from anything. In the summer, fires are a constant danger. This is why I would like to establish a radio network for emergencies.

There are several established repeaters that easily cover this area, but the owners are all "mine, mine, mine!" centric.

It is pretty sad, actually.

 

How is it sad that some one that spent possibly 1000s of dollars does not want every tom dic and harry all over his repeater?  He is responsible for all transmissions from his repeater. He is responsible for up keep of his repeater.  I think it’s sad that if you want emergency comms you don’t do something about it and you want to ride other people’s coat tails.  You are I wasn’t what you have centric.  Pretty sad actually.  

[Socalgmrs]

10 hours ago, wilbilt62 said:

I have actually thought about it. Unfortunately, my location is not ideal for what I would be attempting to accomplish. I would be trying to establish a means of emergency communication between two small communities about 10 miles apart in a rural area. Simplex on HT likely won't do it.

What about simplex from base units with higher power and good antennas.  You can set up a great base unit for less then $250. You can always relay.   I think with repeaters we have gotten away from the needed skill of relaying information. 

[tcp2525]

7 hours ago, Socalgmrs said:

How is it sad that some one that spent possibly 1000s of dollars does not want every tom dic and harry all over his repeater?  He is responsible for all transmissions from his repeater. He is responsible for up keep of his repeater.  I think it’s sad that if you want emergency comms you don’t do something about it and you want to ride other people’s coat tails.  You are I wasn’t what you have centric.  Pretty sad actually.  

Because GMRS is oversaturated with repeaters that go unused. Nothing worse that a repeater transmitting its ID into an empty room. A constantly active repeater with every Tom Dick and Harry increases your odds of getting help when you need it.

[LeoG]

I have one of those "useless" repeaters that I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry to use.  I use it for communicating with my family and don't have any plans on opening it up.  And on top of it most of these small repeaters have a small footprint to go along with them.  Only a few lucky people get to be able to have that prime spot a 1000' or more up in the air that allows 20+ miles of communication.  Mine is at one of the higher spots in town and will eventually be +80' above that.  I don't expect to get more than 10 miles out.  It's only a useless repeater to you.  To me it's my alternate communications platform.

[WRUE951]

3 hours ago, tcp2525 said:

Because GMRS is oversaturated with repeaters that go unused. Nothing worse that a repeater transmitting its ID into an empty room. A constantly active repeater with every Tom Dick and Harry increases your odds of getting help when you need it.

It's only annoying if you don't change the channel our turn your radio off. But im betting you purposely programed the PL Tones of those 'oversaturated repeaters' so you can eavesdrop.     

[LeoG]

Just run open tones and you can listen to everything.

[tcp2525]

2 hours ago, LeoG said:

I have one of those "useless" repeaters that I don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry to use.  I use it for communicating with my family and don't have any plans on opening it up.  And on top of it most of these small repeaters have a small footprint to go along with them.  Only a few lucky people get to be able to have that prime spot a 1000' or more up in the air that allows 20+ miles of communication.  Mine is at one of the higher spots in town and will eventually be +80' above that.  I don't expect to get more than 10 miles out.  It's only a useless repeater to you.  To me it's my alternate communications platform.

That's just pure selfishness. You want to keep in touch with family use the cell phone. A repeater is for public use on GMRS. Plus, how are you gonna stop someone from using it? Deploying a closed repeater is totally and utterly foolish and breaks every terrestrial and celestial boundary of human stupidity. 

[tcp2525]

58 minutes ago, LeoG said:

Just run open tones and you can listen to everything.

Yep, that's what I do. All those closed repeaters ID every once in a while. 

[LeoG]

18 minutes ago, tcp2525 said:

That's just pure selfishness. You want to keep in touch with family use the cell phone. A repeater is for public use on GMRS. Plus, how are you gonna stop someone from using it? Deploying a closed repeater is totally and utterly foolish and breaks every terrestrial and celestial boundary of human stupidity. 

You pay for 1/2 and you can use it too.  A repeater is for public use if the owner decides it is, not you.

Not like the phone company gives their service away from the goodness of their hearts.  They make you pay for it and have a contract with them for the most part.

And it's not like I'm interfering with the airways with my 5-10 minutes of communication with my wife per day.  It's essentially invisible for the most part.  And if someone decides to use it without permission I can change tones, it's simple enough.  You don't get that it's other peoples property.  The airwaves are free, but the equipment is privately owned.

[tcp2525]

49 minutes ago, LeoG said:

You pay for 1/2 and you can use it too.  A repeater is for public use if the owner decides it is, not you.

Not like the phone company gives their service away from the goodness of their hearts.  They make you pay for it and have a contract with them for the most part.

And it's not like I'm interfering with the airways with my 5-10 minutes of communication with my wife per day.  It's essentially invisible for the most part.  And if someone decides to use it without permission I can change tones, it's simple enough.  You don't get that it's other peoples property.  The airwaves are free, but the equipment is privately owned.

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. You deploy a repeater on a frequency that is open to anyone that paid for a valid FCC license and you act like you own the frequency? Really? How are you going to stop licensed squatters using your repeater? It's people with your mindset that put up a repeater and never use it, or very rarely, and the first to complain about interference when someone puts up a repeater on the same frequency and uses it. Totally mind boggling. 

Oh, and if I were local to you I would use your repeater for free until you accepted me or shut it down every time I got on it.

[wilbilt62]

14 hours ago, The219 said:

Then like OffRoaderX said purchase your own repeater and hardware. This site has them for sale, you could support this site and your local small communities, all in 1 swoop.

I am seriously considering it. As I stated previously, my location is really not ideal for what I am trying to accomplish but it is worth a go.

Tough crowd in this room. I am simply trying to help out my neighbors.

 

[tcp2525]

2 minutes ago, wilbilt62 said:

I am seriously considering it. As I stated previously, my location is really not ideal for what I am trying to accomplish but it is worth a go.

Tough crowd in this room. I am simply trying to help out my neighbors.

 

Tough crowd, no. Just a lot of selfish and self centered mindsets. 

[wilbilt62]

55 minutes ago, tcp2525 said:

Tough crowd, no. Just a lot of selfish and self centered mindsets. 

Yes, one of the reasons I left So Cal nearly 40 years ago. Too many people in general and a high percentage of those with an exaggerated sense of self-importance. 

Rural Nor Cal was an enlightening experience for me back then. Friendly people, much less sense of rush. Many neighbors helped us out when we were trying to get established and basically starving.

Since then, I have tried to pay it forward. If that means setting up an open repeater on the travel tone, so be it.

[WRXL702]

1 hour ago, tcp2525 said:

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. You deploy a repeater on a frequency that is open to anyone that paid for a valid FCC license and you act like you own the frequency? Really? How are you going to stop licensed squatters using your repeater? It's people with your mindset that put up a repeater and never use it, or very rarely, and the first to complain about interference when someone puts up a repeater on the same frequency and uses it. Totally mind boggling. 

Oh, and if I were local to you I would use your repeater for free until you accepted me or shut it down every time I got on it.

 

Rules Seem Pretty Clear To Me.

 

95.1705 Individual licenses required; eligibility; who may operate; cooperative use.

(d) Individual licensee duties. The holder of an individual license:

(1) Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s) (see paragraph (c) of this section);

(2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons;

(3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

 

 

[tcp2525]

4 minutes ago, WRXL702 said:

 

Rules Seem Pretty Clear To Me.

 

95.1705 Individual licenses required; eligibility; who may operate; cooperative use.

 

(d) Individual licensee duties. The holder of an individual license:

(1) Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s) (see paragraph (c) of this section);

(2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons;

(3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

 

 

And go ahead and enforce it. 

[wilbilt62]

2 hours ago, WRXL702 said:

 

Rules Seem Pretty Clear To Me.

 

95.1705 Individual licenses required; eligibility; who may operate; cooperative use.

 

(d) Individual licensee duties. The holder of an individual license:

(1) Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s) (see paragraph (c) of this section);

(2) May allow any person to use (i.e., benefit from the operation of) its GMRS repeater, or alternatively, may limit the use of its GMRS repeater to specific persons;

(3) May disallow the use of its GMRS repeater by specific persons as may be necessary to carry out its responsibilities under this section.

 

 

Yes, that rule seems pretty clear, although its existence is kind of a mystery to me. The nearest repeater to me (about 10 miles) is a "private" repeater. A few years ago, I came up on that repeater and asked for a radio check, I just wanted to see if my new HT could make that 10 miles. 

The owner of that repeater immediately responded and tore me a new one for accessing his repeater. I apologized and stated I was just requesting a radio check and hadn't intended to ruin his day.

I haven't accessed that repeater since, due to courtesy; but here is the thing...I have that repeater in my normal scan and that repeater literally has LESS THAN 5 MINUTES OF TRAFFIC on it per year. No recurring repeater ID.

Yet this guy is sitting on that public frequency and tone, claiming that he "owns" it.

It boggles my mind and makes no sense.

 

 

[tcp2525]

3 minutes ago, wilbilt62 said:

Yes, that rule seems pretty clear, although its existence is kind of a mystery to me. The nearest repeater to me (about 10 miles) is a "private" repeater. A few years ago, I came up on that repeater and asked for a radio check, I just wanted to see if my new HT could make that 10 miles. 

The owner of that repeater immediately responded and tore me a new one for accessing his repeater. I apologized and stated I was just requesting a radio check and hadn't intended to ruin his day.

I haven't accessed that repeater since, due to courtesy; but here is the thing...I have that repeater in my normal scan and that repeater literally has LESS THAN 5 MINUTES OF TRAFFIC on it per year.

Yet this guy is sitting on that public frequency and tone, claiming that he "owns" it.

It boggles my mind and makes no sense.

 

 

Yep, point proven. Had he been polite when you urinated in his territory everyone would have been cordial and respected each other before moving on. I have time for idiots like that.

[WRXL702]

1 hour ago, wilbilt62 said:

Yes, that rule seems pretty clear, although its existence is kind of a mystery to me. The nearest repeater to me (about 10 miles) is a "private" repeater. A few years ago, I came up on that repeater and asked for a radio check, I just wanted to see if my new HT could make that 10 miles. 

The owner of that repeater immediately responded and tore me a new one for accessing his repeater. I apologized and stated I was just requesting a radio check and hadn't intended to ruin his day.

I haven't accessed that repeater since, due to courtesy; but here is the thing...I have that repeater in my normal scan and that repeater literally has LESS THAN 5 MINUTES OF TRAFFIC on it per year. No recurring repeater ID.

Yet this guy is sitting on that public frequency and tone, claiming that he "owns" it.

It boggles my mind and makes no sense.

 

 

So Put Up Your Own Repeater On That GMRS Frequency. He Owns The Repeater, Not The Frequency Or Squelch Access Tones.

Repeater CWID Is Not A Requirement, Nor Is That Relative.

Not Sure Why This Is Such A Big Deal.

The Repeater Owners Have Their Option For Allowing Use.