Question: Paid Subscription Repeaters?

[wilbilt62]

15 hours ago, LeoG said:

He owns the repeater.  You can use the frequency all you want.  Simplex, Duplex just don't access his repeater.  There are a whole bunch of different tones you can use besides the one single one he's currently using.

I suppose I could set up a repeater on the same frequency and tone and then claim it is mine. 

Of course, I wouldn't do that because I am not a di*k, but I certainly could. 

[wilbilt62]

42 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

 Just because you can find a way to pick the lock and start a car that’s sitting on a public road it doesn’t give you the right to do so. Get your own car and drive the same road all you want, loan it out to neighbors and friends if you want. Feel free to pay for whatever fuel or power source it uses, parking fees and insurance and leave the keys in it with a sign that says free to use. You are not entitled to use someone else’s car without permission because it uses public roads.
The GMRS repeater is owned by an individual. It’s his or hers to do with what they want. The FCC rules and common sense back this up. It doesn’t matter if it’s for their own family, or a family farm, or a radio club, or they just let it sit there unused, it’s not yours. 
Sure it’s nice when people make their repeater open for others to use but it’s a permission given not an entitlement. 
I find it amazing that this concept is so hard for some people to grasp. 
 

Sure. But you also aren't entitled to park your personal vehicle across a public road, blocking access to others.

You own the vehicle, but you don't own the road.

[WRUU653]

4 minutes ago, wilbilt62 said:

Sure. But you also aren't entitled to park your personal vehicle across a public road, blocking access to others.

You own the vehicle, but you don't own the road.

No one can do that. You can still use the frequency like you use the road. That’s why the FCC says to make sure you are not interfering with other transmissions. 

[WRUU653]

13 minutes ago, wilbilt62 said:

I suppose I could set up a repeater on the same frequency and tone and then claim it is mine. 

Of course, I wouldn't do that because I am not a di*k, but I certainly could. 

And if you did that you would be interfering with other transmissions. Along with just not being a good human. Do you go out of your way to cut off other people in traffic just because they do?

[SteveShannon]

18 minutes ago, wilbilt62 said:

I suppose I could set up a repeater on the same frequency and tone and then claim it is mine. 

Of course, I wouldn't do that because I am not a di*k, but I certainly could. 

But why not just setup a repeater on one of the other pairs? Nothing is gained by intentionally running interference (and yes I appreciate that you said you wouldn’t.) 

[wilbilt62]

6 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

And if you did that you would be interfering with other transmissions. Along with just not being a good human. Do you go out of your way to cut off other people in traffic just because they do?

Of course not. I have been driving for nearly 50 years and am about the most courteous driver you will ever meet. I have never been involved in a collision, although I have avoided many because I was paying attention when others weren't. (I don't refer to collisions as "accidents", because 99% of the time, they aren't "accidents")

I received my most recent traffic citation in 1981. And I always use my turn signal because it literally requires zero effort and is the courteous thing to do.

I extend courtesy to all others on the road, and I expect the same in return.

If I am transmitting on a public frequency and tone, being courteous and following the FCC rules, I am doing the right thing and being courteous. And I expect the same in return.

Hell, I even hold doors open for people.

[LeoG]

I guess my car metaphor really resonated with ya'all.

[wilbilt62]

13 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

But why not just setup a repeater on one of the other pairs? Nothing is gained by intentionally running interference (and yes I appreciate that you said you wouldn’t.) 

The issue is that all of the pairs around here are jammed up with "private" repeaters (most of which are mostly silent).

Simplex is full of farm worker traffic in Spanish or Punjabi. Of course, they never use call signs or follow any rules in any way.

I suppose I could poke around and find a pair and tone that isn't already "claimed". But if you are close enough, you can hear traffic regardless of tone. Would I then be "interfering"?

[WRUU653]

2 minutes ago, wilbilt62 said:

Of course not. I have been driving for nearly 50 years and am about the most courteous driver you will ever meet. I have never been involved in a collision, although I have avoided many because I was paying attention when others weren't. (I don't refer to collisions as "accidents", because 99% of the time, they aren't "accidents")

I received my most recent traffic citation in 1981. And I always use my turn signal because it literally requires zero effort and is the courteous thing to do.

I extend courtesy to all others on the road, and I expect the same in return.

If I am transmitting on a public frequency and tone, being courteous and following the FCC rules, I am doing the right thing and being courteous. And I expect the same in return.

Hell, I even hold doors open for people.

Okay that is all good, you sound like a good person. Picking the same tone would be like picking the same lane space on a road. Sometimes there is traffic but we all should make room for each other (even when others may not).

3 minutes ago, wilbilt62 said:

I suppose I could poke around and find a pair and tone that isn't already "claimed". But if you are close enough, you can hear traffic regardless of tone. Would I then be "interfering"?

Not if you check to make sure the frequency is clear first, then merge. 

[wilbilt62]

1 minute ago, WRUU653 said:

Okay that is all good, you sound like a good person. Picking the same tone would be like picking the same lane space on a road. Sometimes there is traffic but we all should make room for each other (even when others may not).

Not if you check to make sure the frequency is clear first, then merge. 

[LeoG]

11 minutes ago, wilbilt62 said:

The issue is that all of the pairs around here are jammed up with "private" repeaters (most of which are mostly silent).

Simplex is full of farm worker traffic in Spanish or Punjabi. Of course, they never use call signs or follow any rules in any way.

I suppose I could poke around and find a pair and tone that isn't already "claimed". But if you are close enough, you can hear traffic regardless of tone. Would I then be "interfering"?

I don't have to worry about that too much around here.  The GMRS airwaves are mostly silent and sometimes you can hear the FRS HTs when you are driving around in the mobile.  None of them follow any etiquette.  Likely unlicensed.

We have 2 major repeaters and a minor repeater in the area.  One major is much more active than the other and the minor and less active major are on the same frequency but different tones.  My repeater is on the same frequency as another inactive repeater.  I accidentally found their tone because it was one above mine and sometimes when I keyed up my base that repeater would activate.

I chose that frequency because of it's inactivity and noise level.  Lots of DMR crap in the area on all the frequenies.  It's a plague to analog.

[tcp2525]

1 hour ago, wilbilt62 said:

The issue is that all of the pairs around here are jammed up with "private" repeaters (most of which are mostly silent).

Simplex is full of farm worker traffic in Spanish or Punjabi. Of course, they never use call signs or follow any rules in any way.

I suppose I could poke around and find a pair and tone that isn't already "claimed". But if you are close enough, you can hear traffic regardless of tone. Would I then be "interfering"?

Yep, this is why "you share the road" on GMRS. You only have eight lanes and should you want to deploy a repeater, just pick a lane. This means that ALL users are on that lane and they learn to coexist as nobody would intentionally interfere with the other repeater. Of course you will always get that ONE person that will try to get you to move because they bought their equipment and think they own the frequency. Hey, it's all about community spirit and working together. 

[wilbilt62]

6 minutes ago, tcp2525 said:

Yep, this is why "you share the road" on GMRS. You only have eight lanes and should you want to deploy a repeater, just pick a lane. This means that ALL users are on that lane and they learn to coexist as nobody would intentionally interfere with the other repeater. Of course you will always get that ONE person that will try to get you to move because they bought their equipment and think they own the frequency. Hey, it's all about community spirit and working together. 

And that, in a nutshell, is the entire point of this thread.

 

[WRUE951]

4 hours ago, WRUU653 said:

 Just because you can find a way to pick the lock and start a car that’s sitting on a public road it doesn’t give you the right to do so. Get your own car and drive the same road all you want, loan it out to neighbors and friends if you want. Feel free to pay for whatever fuel or power source it uses, parking fees and insurance and leave the keys in it with a sign that says free to use. You are not entitled to use someone else’s car without permission because it uses public roads.
The GMRS repeater is owned by an individual. It’s his or hers to do with what they want. The FCC rules and common sense back this up. It doesn’t matter if it’s for their own family, or a family farm, or a radio club, or they just let it sit there unused, it’s not yours. 
Sure it’s nice when people make their repeater open for others to use but it’s a permission given not an entitlement. 
I find it amazing that this concept is so hard for some people to grasp. 
 

But stealing a car is a crime whereas using somones repeater without permission is not.  

[WSHH887]

54 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

But stealing a car is a crime whereas using somones repeater without permission is not.  

True it's not a crime. But it is unethical and possibly immoral. Folks doing things "just because they can" without regard to others rights and personal property just makes for unnecessary grief. And as mom would say "it's just plain rude".  
 

So ask yourself this question, were you raised that way?

[WRUE951]

1 minute ago, WSHH887 said:

True it's not a crime. But it is unethical and possibly immoral. Folks doing things "just because they can" without regard to others rights and personal property just makes for unnecessary grief. And as mom would say "it's just plain rude".  
 

So ask yourself this question, were you raised that way?

I operate within the law..  Now sometimes that might piss someone off and sometimes i might get a kick out of their crying response..  But if someone treats me with respect, they get it back,,  Every time.   

[WSHH887]

3 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

I operate within the law..  Now sometimes that might piss someone off and sometimes i might get a kick out of their crying response..  But if someone treats me with respect, they get it back,,  Every time.   

Being in compliance with the law doesn't necessarily mean you are morally and ethically correct. Man's laws are often in direct contravention to what is right and just. 
 

To put it another way, we have a "legal" system, not a "justice" system. 

[WRUU653]

57 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

But stealing a car is a crime whereas using somones repeater without permission is not.  

Not all crimes are illegal. Everything is relative. It was only an analogy after all. 

I don’t understand why anyone would  be remotely interested in using a repeater where the owner doesn’t want you. Nor would I want to use a repeater where I felt the owner had unreasonable rules. I’ve seen that too. I just wouldn’t care and I’d find an alternative. 

Well looks like I’m out of give a shits on this one. I have literally become bored with the subject. Who knew

[WRXL702]

12 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

Not all crimes are illegal. Everything is relative. It was only an analogy after all. 

I don’t understand why anyone would  be remotely interested in using a repeater where the owner doesn’t want you. Nor would I want to use a repeater where I felt the owner had unreasonable rules. I’ve seen that too. I just wouldn’t care and I’d find an alternative. 

Well looks like I’m out of give a shits on this one. I have literally become bored with the subject. Who knew

Dude - You Are Spot On.......

Some Folks Are Just Plain Ignorant With Their Self Justified Rational / Reasoning......