Long, Long Ago

[WSHH887]

Reaching back into the dusty hinterland of my memory I seem to recall that a license was required to use a CB. At some point the number of unlicensed folks got so large the FCC just gave up enforcing it. 
 

If my, admittedly, somewhat sketchy memory is correct, could the same thing happened to GMRS?  Is it happening?  

[tcp2525]

24 minutes ago, WSHH887 said:

Reaching back into the dusty hinterland of my memory I seem to recall that a license was required to use a CB. At some point the number of unlicensed folks got so large the FCC just gave up enforcing it. 
 

If my, admittedly, somewhat sketchy memory is correct, could the same thing happened to GMRS?  Is it happening?  

I remember those day too. That's when I had to get out the old whetstone and grind my reeds in the Vibrasender and Vibrasponder to change PL tones. Those were the good old days.

You needn't worry about the FCC offering license free services as they will never give up that cash cow. GMRS will safely stay the gentleman's CB band.

[SteveShannon]

2 hours ago, WSHH887 said:

Reaching back into the dusty hinterland of my memory I seem to recall that a license was required to use a CB. At some point the number of unlicensed folks got so large the FCC just gave up enforcing it. 
 

If my, admittedly, somewhat sketchy memory is correct, could the same thing happened to GMRS?  Is it happening?  

Yes, it’s possible. They’ve asked us for suggestions for simplifying regulations. Most (by far) of the people who use GMRS now don’t have licenses. One way to simplify this would be to combine FRS and GMRS into a single unlicensed service like FRS is today.  

[WRTC928]

3 hours ago, WSHH887 said:

Reaching back into the dusty hinterland of my memory I seem to recall that a license was required to use a CB. At some point the number of unlicensed folks got so large the FCC just gave up enforcing it. 
 

If my, admittedly, somewhat sketchy memory is correct, could the same thing happened to GMRS?  Is it happening?  

That is correct. My callsign was KAFU2984. I have no idea why I remember that.

Is the same thing happening to GMRS? Well...yes, I believe it is. I think it's largely due to the FCC's ill-advised decision to allow FRS to use the GMRS frequencies without a license. Anyone can buy an FRS radio and use the same frequencies without any license at all. From there, it's just a small step to, "Gee, if I buy this Boofwang radio, I can do the same thing but with more power" so they do. Since no license was required before and it's all the same channels, they don't bother with a license for the Boofwang either. There is still a little bit of "gatekeeper effect" with repeater owners, and using repeaters requires a bit more savvy than the average FRS user has, as does programming a ham radio to operate on GMRS, so it isn't quite the crapshow that CB has become, but I can easily imagine it devolving into that.

[SteveShannon]

50 minutes ago, WRTC928 said:

That is correct. My callsign was KAFU2984. I have no idea why I remember that.

Is the same thing happening to GMRS? Well...yes, I believe it is. I think it's largely due to the FCC's ill-advised decision to allow FRS to use the GMRS frequencies without a license. Anyone can buy an FRS radio and use the same frequencies without any license at all. From there, it's just a small step to, "Gee, if I buy this Boofwang radio, I can do the same thing but with more power" so they do. Since no license was required before and it's all the same channels, they don't bother with a license for the Boofwang either. There is still a little bit of "gatekeeper effect" with repeater owners, and using repeaters requires a bit more savvy than the average FRS user has, as does programming a ham radio to operate on GMRS, so it isn't quite the crapshow that CB has become, but I can easily imagine it devolving into that.

Absolutely nothing prevents any person from simply buying a full power GMRS radio and using it unlicensed, thereby avoiding whatever gatekeeper challenge “programming a ham radio” might provide.

[GreggInFL]

2 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Yes, it’s possible. They’ve asked us for suggestions for simplifying regulations. Most (by far) of the people who use GMRS now don’t have licenses. One way to simplify this would be to combine FRS and GMRS into a single unlicensed service like FRS is today.  

Agreed.

Some philosophical consistency would boost the FCC's credibility, also. On marine VHF one can TX on channels reserved for port operations, intership safety, intership commercial, international distress, state controlled, U.S. government (non-USCG), USCG, bridge-to-bridge intership in the lower Mississippi river only, U.S. EPA, noncommercial and a dozen other uses with a 25W mobile without having anything -- no testing, no license, no nuthin'.

How much damage can one do on GMRS frequencies? A lot less than the above, so why require a license?

[73blazer]

Most people with GMRS radios have no clue they even need a license as most GMRS radios only mention it, if they mention it at all,  in a footnote in the user manual which 99% of people just roundfile along with the packaging.

I know people with business radios that don't know they need a license. They just bought a couple of radios off amazon with no idea what they were. They looked simple no display or keypad, just 8 channels. Granted they operate a cabin resort in the middle of nowhere so nobody is going to care.

[Davichko5650]

2 hours ago, WRTC928 said:

That is correct. My callsign was KAFU2984. I have no idea why I remember that.

 

KAUO6363, Sent in a form that was in the Kraco box to Uncle Charlie when I was at Ft. Campbell in '76.

[WRUE951]

6 hours ago, WSHH887 said:

Reaching back into the dusty hinterland of my memory I seem to recall that a license was required to use a CB. At some point the number of unlicensed folks got so large the FCC just gave up enforcing it. 
 

If my, admittedly, somewhat sketchy memory is correct, could the same thing happened to GMRS?  Is it happening?  

the difference between CB and GMRS in the FCC's mind is 'cash'   CB licensing got them nothing,  GMRS is a pretty good cash cow for them.. So no, i don't think the same thing will happen. 

[SteveShannon]

5 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

the difference between CB and GMRS in the FCC's mind is 'cash'   CB licensing got them nothing,  GMRS is a pretty good cash cow for them.. So no, i don't think the same thing will happen. 

Not really. CB licenses were $20 each 50 years ago when $20 was a lot of money. Then they lowered it to $4, perhaps hoping to entice more people to get legal. 

[WRHS218]

2 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Absolutely nothing prevents any person from simply buying a full power GMRS radio and using it unlicensed, thereby avoiding whatever gatekeeper challenge “programming a ham radio” might provide.

The same goes for amateur radios these days.

[Davichko5650]

43 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Not really. CB licenses were $20 each 50 years ago when $20 was a lot of money. Then they lowered it to $4, perhaps hoping to entice more people to get legal. 

Well 49 years ago it was free, but required. But of all my army buddies who got CB's back then, I was the only one who sent in for the License!

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, Davichko5650 said:

KAUO6363, Sent in a form that was in the Kraco box to Uncle Charlie when I was at Ft. Campbell in '76.

Kraco CB's were the equivalent of GMRS  CCR's today. They were the cheapest POS radio's you could buy.

[WRUE951]

59 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Not really. CB licenses were $20 each 50 years ago when $20 was a lot of money. Then they lowered it to $4, perhaps hoping to entice more people to get legal. 

I don't remember paying when i obtained mine in around 74..  If I remember correctly, i went too the local post office on base, filled out a form, name address, birthday etc. checked two boxes agreeing to abide by rules and sent it with a prepaid stamped postage card.   About 30 days later l got my call sign in the mail. For the life of me, i can't remember that call sign..  Probably cause i never used it ..   Back in that day, I don't think i would have wasted $20 for a license, considering that could have filled the tank in my 70 SS Chevelle 5 times.  

[SteveShannon]

43 minutes ago, Davichko5650 said:

Well 49 years ago it was free, but required. But of all my army buddies who got CB's back then, I was the only one who sent in for the License!

Okay, 55 years ago it was $20, then it was reduced to $4 (that was when I first considered getting a license because $20 was way too much!)

The point is that the government has no problem reducing the cost of the license, even to zero. 

[Davichko5650]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

Kraco CB's were the equivalent of GMRS  CCR's today. They were the cheapest POS radio's you could buy.

When you're making $505 a month defending democracy, you go cheap!  Except for my golf clubs back then...

[WSHH887]

10 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Yes, it’s possible. They’ve asked us for suggestions for simplifying regulations. Most (by far) of the people who use GMRS now don’t have licenses. One way to simplify this would be to combine FRS and GMRS into a single unlicensed service like FRS is today.  

Except I then see it descending into to mess that CB is today. 

[WSHH887]

3 hours ago, Davichko5650 said:

When you're making $505 a month defending democracy, you go cheap!  Except for my golf clubs back then...

Goo heavens, you made that much. I remember my first months take home pay was &147.00.  But by '75 I was an E-5, married and getting sep rats and quarters.  

[WRYZ926]

4 hours ago, Davichko5650 said:

When you're making $505 a month defending democracy, you go cheap!  Except for my golf clubs back then...

 

7 minutes ago, WSHH887 said:

Goo heavens, you made that much. I remember my first months take home pay was &147.00.  But by '75 I was an E-5, married and getting sep rats and quarters.  

I was making $625 a month when I first enlisted. I did go in as an E-2 though. I forget what jump pay was at that time but it was nice to have the extra money per month.

Everyone that is E-5 and below and also married are usually always broke. At least that was how it was when I was in.

[WSHH887]

2 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

 

I was making $625 a month when I first enlisted. I did go in as an E-2 though. I forget what jump pay was at that time but it was nice to have the extra money per month.

Everyone that is E-5 and below and also married are usually always broke. At least that was how it was when I was in.

Stateside things were tight and we didn't have kids yet. But when I was stationed in Spain we even managed to save some. The exchange rate was very favorable, unlike Italy, England and especially Germany. 
 

Honestly, that was my best duty station. All the fun and no one was shooting at us. Although, it did come darned close a few times. The ETA really didn't like American servicemen. 

[WRUE951]

24 minutes ago, WSHH887 said:

Except I then see it descending into to mess that CB is today. 

GMRS is actually not bad until you get into the bigger cities..Then it seem's  'Game off' time 

[RoadApple]

12 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Okay, 55 years ago it was $20, then it was reduced to $4 (that was when I first considered getting a license because $20 was way too much!)

The point is that the government has no problem reducing the cost of the license, even to zero. 

Agreed.  An eventual reduction to zero is feasible. 

After all, as was pointed out there isn't a big operational gap between FRS and GMRS and FRS is already not licensed.   GMRS was $70 for a 10-year term and is now $35 for a 10-year term.   IDK, perhaps I've got the wrong perspective, but at a rate of $3.50 per year it sure doesn't seem like money is the FCC's motivation for GMRS licensing.  Otherwise, they would be charging more and wouldn't have recently lowered the fee.   I think that at some point the FRS/GMRS chaos will reach critical mass, and the FCC certainly has bigger fish to fry.

I too had one of them there CB licenses back in the 70's that soon became irrelevant.  I also had a cheap Kraco radio, and it worked great!!!

 

[WRTC928]

21 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Absolutely nothing prevents any person from simply buying a full power GMRS radio and using it unlicensed, thereby avoiding whatever gatekeeper challenge “programming a ham radio” might provide.

Nothing except the fact that most of the people who want/need an FRS radio aren't "radio people" and don't even understand the need for programming. Most will just give up if faced with the necessity to do more than push the button and talk. Admittedly, it's not a very high bar, but it does make some difference.

[WRTC928]

13 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

 

I forget what jump pay was at that time but it was nice to have the extra money per month.

When I went on jump status in 1978, it was $50/month. In 1978, that wasn't huge, but it was significant.

[WRTC928]

12 hours ago, WRUE951 said:

GMRS is actually not bad until you get into the bigger cities..Then it seem's  'Game off' time 

GMRS doesn't get a lot of use in central Oklahoma, at least on repeaters. It's not completely abandoned, and there are several repeaters, but they're not usually too busy. One in Oklahoma City gets steady but not overwhelming usage during the workday because someone uses it for their business, but it's a brief conversation every 15 minutes or so. I occasionally hear someone on simplex in the more urban areas, and FRS gets a lot of use by construction crews and store staff, but the range is so short that it's hardly noticeable. I'm sure it's different in more heavily populated parts of the country, but at least here, GMRS is a good communication option for many of us.