Ham Radio 2.0 Coverage of Low-band Channels for GMRS

[marcspaz]

2 hours ago, WRTC928 said:

Repeaters are cool, but you don't need a repeater to get more farz from lowband than you currently can with GMRS UHF. For some settings like ranching/farming operations, you might be able to replace a repeater with a single base unit. The antennas might be too long to be practical for handhelds, but they'll be shorter than CB antennas, so mounting them on vehicles and equipment should be simple. It's possible the radios would sell well even if repeaters were slow to come online. 

 

We can definitely talk farther on low-band due to being able to take advantage of ground wave, sky wave and ducting, but repeaters could be very helpful because those propagation methods are all inconsistent. I tried to use SSB voice on 6m for more than 20 years with terrible luck.  When the conditions are right (which isn't often), we are able to talk 20-30 miles... but most of the time, it's RF LOS.  The really long distance stuff seems to be happening on FT8 and other weak-signal protocols most of the time, but still dependent on the solar cycle and ducting.  

 

To get over the whole handheld issue, I personally would have a crossband repeater in my vehicle, use UHF handheld to my VHF vehicle for full power and range.  I do that with Ham radio all the time.

 

I think the biggest challenge to bringing repeaters online will be duplexers.  I don't know of any that currently exist.  So, until commercial units become available, we are going to have to make them ourselves.  Thankfully, the longer the wavelength, the less sensitive the size/length of components would be.  Novice builders will have better luck as they start making their own.

[WRYZ926]

Yes the 6m band can be fickle at times and it's not called the "Magic Band" for nothing.

All of my experiences with the VHF Low band outside of 6m has been while in the military. I've used man portable and vehicle mounted radios and I was never impressed with the range. This is especially true with something like the PRC-77 that only puts out 4 watts. Most of the time we had to use some type of relay system. We didn't have repeaters so we would have two radios setup at high elevation on two different frequencies to pass traffic.

I agree that a 50 watt mobile setup with cross band repeat is a viable option. I use cross band repeat quite often even at home. While I can get into the local 2m repeater with an HT when outside, using cross band repeat is a whole lot better.

[WRTC928]

3 hours ago, marcspaz said:

 

We can definitely talk farther on low-band due to being able to take advantage of ground wave, sky wave and ducting, but repeaters could be very helpful because those propagation methods are all inconsistent. I tried to use SSB voice on 6m for more than 20 years with terrible luck.  When the conditions are right (which isn't often), we are able to talk 20-30 miles... but most of the time, it's RF LOS.  The really long distance stuff seems to be happening on FT8 and other weak-signal protocols most of the time, but still dependent on the solar cycle and ducting.  

I was responding to the points being made about repeaters being expensive and bulky. In some circumstances, you might get better distance even without the repeater. 

 

3 hours ago, marcspaz said:

To get over the whole handheld issue, I personally would have a crossband repeater in my vehicle, use UHF handheld to my VHF vehicle for full power and range.  I do that with Ham radio all the time.

I've done that a couple of times on ham just to get the feel of it, but so far, I haven't had circumstances where I felt the need. I hadn't thought of that, but if there were lowband GMRS channels, I'm sure someone would start making radios capable of crossband repeat.

[WRTC928]

2 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

I agree that a 50 watt mobile setup with cross band repeat is a viable option. I use cross band repeat quite often even at home. While I can get into the local 2m repeater with an HT when outside, using cross band repeat is a whole lot better.

I've been trying for months to get an antenna mast up outdoors, but it's one thing after another. Most recently I had shoulder surgery and won't be able to lift anything heavy for several months. Right now, I'm using a mag mount on a pizza plate, so crossbanding won't give me much more than I get from my HT. If I had a good antenna on a 40' mast, I might find a use for crossbanding. 

[WRYZ926]

16 minutes ago, WRTC928 said:

I've been trying for months to get an antenna mast up outdoors, but it's one thing after another. Most recently I had shoulder surgery and won't be able to lift anything heavy for several months. Right now, I'm using a mag mount on a pizza plate, so crossbanding won't give me much more than I get from my HT. If I had a good antenna on a 40' mast, I might find a use for crossbanding. 

I hope everything went well and you heal quickly. Don't rush physical therapy or try to use your shoulder too soon.

I'm running a Comet GP-9 dual band antenna and its base is at 22 feet above the ground mounted on some 1 5/8" fence posts that are anchored to the house. Our club's repeaters are 22.5 miles away with the antennas up on a tall radio station tower. I'm running a Comet CA-712EFC with the base at 20 feet above ground with my Wouxun KG-1000G.

With this setup I can easily get into the 2m repeater with my Icom IC-2730 set on low power (5 watts). And the other people can't tell if I'm running 5 watts or 50 watts when using the 2730 and the GP-9. Using a hand held around the yard is a different story since I am low to the ground and using the short HT antenna.

I have to use a minimum of 20 watts to get a good readable signal into the 70cm and GMRS repeaters. I can sometimes get into the GMRS repeater with a HT out in the yard if I am facing the direction of the tower but it's not a strong signal. I can't get into the 70cm repeater at all with a HT. The 2m and 70cm repeaters use the same antennas which are at 900 feet and the GMRS antennas are at 400-450 feet.

Cross band repeat works well around the yard for me. Another good use is if you are traveling with a group and there is only on mobile radio but several hand held radios.