Has GMRS Lost Its Welcoming Vibe?

[SeaScholar]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to start a discussion and get a pulse check from the community on something I've been thinking about lately.

GMRS has always been touted as the simpler, more accessible, and frankly, friendlier radio service compared to some others out there. It's been seen as a place for people who just want effective, no-fuss communication for everything from family camping trips to coordinating small business operations. The barrier to entry is low, and the community has generally reflected that with a welcoming and helpful attitude.

But is that still the case?

Lately, I've noticed a shift. Reading through forums and listening on the air, I'm sensing a current of negativity and gatekeeping that feels very out of place in the GMRS world. It feels less like a community of users helping each other and more like a new territory for seasoned hobbyists to stake a claim, bringing with them the same elitism and disdain that many of us sought to avoid in the first place.

So, I have to ask: Is GMRS still the friendly, practical service it's meant to be? Or are we seeing it become just another playground for disgruntled HAMs to spread negativity?

I'm genuinely interested to hear what you all think. Have you noticed this too, or am I just tuning into the wrong frequencies?

Let's discuss.

[amaff]

[SteveShannon]

29 minutes ago, SeaScholar said:

Hey everyone,

I wanted to start a discussion and get a pulse check from the community on something I've been thinking about lately.

GMRS has always been touted as the simpler, more accessible, and frankly, friendlier radio service compared to some others out there. It's been seen as a place for people who just want effective, no-fuss communication for everything from family camping trips to coordinating small business operations. The barrier to entry is low, and the community has generally reflected that with a welcoming and helpful attitude.

But is that still the case?

Lately, I've noticed a shift. Reading through forums and listening on the air, I'm sensing a current of negativity and gatekeeping that feels very out of place in the GMRS world. It feels less like a community of users helping each other and more like a new territory for seasoned hobbyists to stake a claim, bringing with them the same elitism and disdain that many of us sought to avoid in the first place.

So, I have to ask: Is GMRS still the friendly, practical service it's meant to be? Or are we seeing it become just another playground for disgruntled HAMs to spread negativity?

I'm genuinely interested to hear what you all think. Have you noticed this too, or am I just tuning into the wrong frequencies?

Let's discuss.

There has always been some of that negativity centered around disdain for “cheap Chinese radios” and the people who use them.  But I don’t think that’s why your effort to start a national user group was greeted negatively. Instead I think the “build it and they will come” vibe just didn’t sit well with people.  You might have a good idea, but it felt like the structure was added before anyone was invited and people are funny about things like that.

[UncleYoda]

Other than this forum (and another older one) there is no community aspect to it.  Nor should there need to be.  Therefore there isn't and doesn't need to be a welcoming vibe.  If you do net check-ins you'll probably be welcomed, but that's just more of the carry over from ham.  And yes, there are many people trying to make GMRS a carbon-copy of ham on different frequencies with no test needed.  To me, that ham stuff destroys most of its value as an alternative.

As far as this forum goes, although they post welcome comments, the overall tone is hostility.

[SeaScholar]

1 hour ago, SteveShannon said:

There has always been some of that negativity centered around disdain for “cheap Chinese radios” and the people who use them.  But I don’t think that’s why your effort to start a national user group was greeted negatively. Instead I think the “build it and they will come” vibe just didn’t sit well with people.  You might have a good idea, but it felt like the structure was added before anyone was invited and people are funny about things like that.

Oh no, this topic wasn't introduced because of that. That was just one more thing on the list, yes. I've wandered this forum a lot before considering posting. and other places such as YouTube, etc. on the subject.

[SeaScholar]

50 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

Other than this forum (and another older one) there is no community aspect to it.  Nor should there need to be.  Therefore there isn't and doesn't need to be a welcoming vibe.  If you do net check-ins you'll probably be welcomed, but that's just more of the carry over from ham.

I can understand. The part of " Nor should there need to be." is my hang up. For a radio service that advertises itself as being for families and group activities, there really should be some kind of friendly nature or support for and around it.
 

53 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

, there are many people trying to make GMRS a carbon-copy of ham on different frequencies with no test needed.  To me, that ham stuff destroys most of its value as an alternative.

YES. mostly agreed. A lot of the people I personally have interacted with and know that use GMRS (and FRS) tend to see it as the happy middle between CB's wild west cavalier users, and the well structured HAM. There is a bit of structure to GMRS, hence its used for EmComm activities and CERT where CB really has no practical use, and not much utility to HAM in local emergency response. I could be wrong though. 

57 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

As far as this forum goes, although they post welcome comments, the overall tone is hostility.

That is why I really had preferred not to discuss much of anything here. But, since I was prompted elsewhere. Why not?! Also, thank you for the response.

[GreggInFL]

58 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

As far as this forum goes, although they post welcome comments, the overall tone is hostility.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. There will always be some knuckleheads sure, but when I wandered in here a couple years ago as a clueless wonder my first reaction was that this was one of the most professional, knowledgeable and helpful forums I'd ever run into. That's still true, IMHO.

People don't always agree on everything, but that's life. "Hostile" is the last adjective that leaps to mind.

[SteveShannon]

29 minutes ago, SeaScholar said:

Oh no, this topic wasn't introduced because of that. That was just one more thing on the list, yes. I've wandered this forum a lot before considering posting. and other places such as YouTube, etc. on the subject.

Welcome

Did you find the “Welcome” forum where new people can introduce themselves?  Please tell us more about yourself and what you’re doing with GMRS. 

[WRKC935]

I believe the biggest thing that slowed it down was the FCC thing with linking.

GMRS was a social gathering spot that worked across not just state lines but different regions of the country.  The FCC deciding to clamp down on linking I believe killed a LOT of interest.  The repeaters (linked ones anyway) fell silent after they were unlinked, and some were just turned completely off, like mine was.  Now I had two repeaters on the air.  One was meant for local conversation and the linked was was wide area.  That was by design and the local repeater stayed on the air.  A few moved over to it, but other users just disappeared.  And I bet that was common everywhere.

Far as the gatekeeping.  There does seem to be a contingent of people that got it in their head that GMRS was suppose to strictly be for immediate family and low level business communications and that social conversations weren't it's purpose, and argued that point until the rules specifically stating that is was for personal conversations between users.  That sort of pulled the wind out of their sails about it's purpose.  But if you are familiar with who those people are, there have been similar efforts made by them that weren't directly related to usage.  But were negative about using the service as a social gathering place.

 

Far as the whole 'sad hams' thing.   Personal opinion was that sad hams that were spending their time wringing their hands about ham radio not seeing ANY growth or at least a significant drop off while GMRS was going like gang busters with new licenses every day.  I can see them reciting from How the Grinch stole Christmas, but referring to how GMRS was stealing prospective hams because they had a required test that GMRS doesn't and it needed to be stopped.  In fact the FCC guy from the ARRL luncheon video that made the comments about it being 'illegal' was a ham and had been for a LONG TIME (30 years) at the point he made the comments.  There is quite a number of hams that are scared to death that the FCC is going to come in and take all the ham bands from them and auction them off for cell usage or something similar. 

Do I believe that sad hams called the FCC over and over complaining about GMRS repeater linking to force a reaction, YES I DO.  The FCC got bored with it and instead of doing the hard thing and fixing the regulations so they couldn't be interpreted 3 different ways, which required a bunch of procedural stuff, they took the 'easy path' and decided to interpret them in as far fetched a way as they could and ban the act outright.  WITHOUT ACTUALLY CHANGING THE REGULATIONS.  Of course, that shut the hams up.  Their phones quit ringing and that made them happy.  Of course we got screwed in the process.  But that's the breaks.  Nevermind that at that time, there were more GMRS licensed operators than ham operators.... but you know, it was easier. 

I will openly admit that I have been a ham for 30 years.  But I don't align myself with many of them and their bullshit.   I do see that we need MORE technically savy people involved with GMRS since a larger number of the folks that were getting into it has ZERO technical knowledge, and were getting what little info they had from one or two people on YouTube that really aren't all that technically minded either. 

But I have also seen in here that the non-technically minded seem to want to argue with folks that have 15 or more years experience with two-way radio as a profession and make statements that clearly indicate they have no idea what they are commenting on.  This is now to the point that I don't even want to bother with correcting the statements of stupidity because the commenter will argue the point, while being completely wrong.  Yeah, I got started in two-way radio as a career path 15 years ago this past May.  So I might just know a little something about UHF radio. 

So when it's getting to the point of infighting and the sort of crap that is going on now.  Why would someone want to be bothered with GMRS or Ham for that matter?

 

[SeaScholar]

25 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Welcome

Did you find the “Welcome” forum where new people can introduce themselves?  Please tell us more about yourself and what you’re doing with GMRS. 

I did, and thank you. I might go out on a limb here and say for the most part that seems like the only "nice" section. It's gets a little wild outside of there.

[UncleYoda]

49 minutes ago, SeaScholar said:

not much utility to HAM in local emergency response

HAM is the ultimate emergency communications.  It's just the ham'ers are going about it the wrong way.  I had to explain to my county's EM Coordinator why ham was not only important but would be the fallback when the county's 911 system failed. And it isn't either/or anyway; ham and gmrs (and frs) can all be used together as needed.

[SeaScholar]

3 minutes ago, WRKC935 said:

I believe the biggest thing that slowed it down was the FCC thing with linking.

GMRS was a social gathering spot that worked across not just state lines but different regions of the country.  The FCC deciding to clamp down on linking I believe killed a LOT of interest.  The repeaters (linked ones anyway) fell silent after they were unlinked, and some were just turned completely off, like mine was.  Now I had two repeaters on the air.  [...sic...]

So when it's getting to the point of infighting and the sort of crap that is going on now.  Why would someone want to be bothered with GMRS or Ham for that matter?

I had not considered all of that, but now that you mention it. I see it, and have to agree whole heartedly. 

I myself used to only listen from my FRS and an old Baofeng UV-82 for years. I was lazy and was convinced at one point that if I even tried to talk on GMRS without a license I was going to jail. So I was content with listening in like a car radio. I remember when the repeaters around me all started going silent too. 

Thank you for that perspective. 

[SeaScholar]

5 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

And it isn't either/or anyway; ham and gmrs (and frs) can all be used together as needed.

I'm not completely convinced about the HAM part. but I am going to defer my opinion and agree with this. I do feel that each of the systems have many great uses for them.

[UncleYoda]

53 minutes ago, GreggInFL said:

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

You're not being targeted/harassed (yet).  Say (post) something the Jeep crowd doesn't like and report back later.  There are several that should have been banned but they have paid memberships.

[WRUU653]

I have to agree with @SteveShannon. He tends to articulate better than I do.

I don’t think you are being met with gatekeepers but rather people who want to preserve the availability to all users of the GMRS/FRS channels. That’s where I am coming from at least. Including those that have no interest in getting a license. People that use FRS for talking in campgrounds, between vehicles on family trips, little kids having fun, four wheelers, and on and on. People who will never even come to this site get a license or join a club but just want to use radios for what they are doing. These are all as important and valid as anything else.

Try and organize and change a simple service for the people and make it into something that already exists elsewhere and you may see some pushback.
For instance local ham clubs near me support bike races, marathons and other activities. just the sort of thing you look to do. They use simplex or their own repeaters to do so. One such club even has a dedicated repeater for such things. Plenty of room on the ham frequencies to do this as well as organized use of the bands and frequencies and it’s great that they do this. Would this also be great on GMRS? Not so much room on GMRS.  I have witnessed people thinking that because they put a repeater on a GMRS frequency/channel that they somehow have priority to that channel, that it’s theirs. It is not, they do not. Yes we should all be respectful. So people may have concerns and wish to preserve what is all of ours.

As for helping people understand how to use radios, set up repeaters, use of tones, programming, equipment reviews or troubleshooting this place, this forum is here for all that. No gatekeeping isn’t met very well here. My interpretation of gatekeeping is not sharing knowledge, which is just wrong.
We can all work on making this site more welcome.
But you didn’t ask about this site, you asked “Has GMRS lost its welcoming vibe?”. 
I don’t know but if it has it’s because some people think it’s theirs and I would just bet they are part of a club and not the kids up the street giggling on their radios.

[SteveShannon]

4 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

You're not being targeted/harassed (yet).  Say (post) something the Jeep crowd doesn't like and report back later.  There are several that should have been banned but they have paid memberships.

Gregg is unlikely to be harassed. He has an easy going pleasant personality. 

[dosw]

To think that linking, which in many ways was harmful to the objectives of a general mobile radio service. The FCC says the service is for the following:

 

Quote

 

The most common use of GMRS channels is for short-distance, two-way voice communications using hand-held radios, mobile radios and repeater systems. ...... The GMRS is available to an individual for short-distance two-way communications to facilitate the activities of licensees and their immediate family members. Each licensee manages a system consisting of one or more transmitting units (stations.)

 

That really doesn't seem like the intent is for cross regional linked repeater networks. And I'm not really the bearer of bad news here; the FCC clarified this position a few months back.

 

There may BE a case for cross-regional linked repeater networks available to people with "pay to play" instead of "test and pay to play" licenses. But that's almost going to have to be a separate service. The FCC has made it rather clear that service is not GMRS. So if there's a strong enough use case for such a thing to exist in the VHF or UHF spectrum, it would probably need to be addressed as its own distinct service.

 

What killed GMRS? I would say that the news of its demise is greatly exaggerated. It's just not as interesting to repeater linking people. But there are somewhere around 1000 new licenses granted every month, and that number is growing, not shrinking. Discontinuation of linking, to me, seems like it would make GMRS more friendly as it becomes more dedicated to neighborly regions, less about if someone in KY can talk to someone in VA and someone else in MA. But that's just speculation on my part.

 

As for forum friendliness, we seem to have gotten the most abusive forum contributor sorted out. The rest of us are just typical grumps, not blatantly abusive grumps. Within individual repeaters where people talk amongst themselves, and where weekly nets often get held, I haven't seen any change in my area recently, other than a few repeaters becoming more active over time. In my area, for example the "West 1" repeater used to be a lot more quiet, and now seems to host nets and have more chatting going on than it used to.

 

But again, the real purpose the FCC envisions for GMRS doesn't seem to be weekly nets and idle repeater rag chewing with other strangers. It's short-distance two-way voice communications ... to facilitate the activities of licensees and their immediate family members. The word "activities" is useful here. While rag chewing might be considered an "activity", I suspect they used the word thinking more of family outings, friends out doing things, and so on. Hiking, caravaning, RVing, offroading, skiing, small-craft boating, going to amusement parks, shopping, being tourists, camping, cycling, road-rallying, motorcycling, family reunioning, facilitating events... sorry to disappoint but radio as a hobby in and of itself is more in the domain of ham radio.

[SeaScholar]

42 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

But you didn’t ask about this site, you asked “Has GMRS lost its welcoming vibe?”. 

ah yes, You're right on that. That is my bad. However, I do generally see some of the unwelcome vibe in social media sites. It does seem more 'specific' I guess here on this site. Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

[SeaScholar]

33 minutes ago, dosw said:

Discontinuation of linking, to me, seems like it would make GMRS more friendly as it becomes more dedicated to neighborly regions, less about if someone in KY can talk to someone in VA and someone else in MA. But that's just speculation on my part.

I really like the way you said this. That is one of the big reason I (and a few of my friends) have no interest in HAM. Many of the things we do are very much - locally. There is no need to chat with people a couple states away who are disconnected to what we're doing or going through (storms, etc). That's what email, social media, and cell phones are for. (although the prepper types will point out that potential issue here, and that, I understand the need for a dedicated communications expert to get information from further distances. but not everyone needs that)

[WSEZ864]

51 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

I have to agree with @SteveShannon. He tends to articulate better than I do.

I don’t think you are being met with gatekeepers but rather people who want to preserve the availability to all users of the GMRS/FRS channels. That’s where I am coming from at least. Including those that have no interest in getting a license. People that use FRS for talking in campgrounds, between vehicles on family trips, little kids having fun, four wheelers, and on and on. People who will never even come to this site get a license or join a club but just want to use radios for what they are doing. These are all as important and valid as anything else.

Try and organize and change a simple service for the people and make it into something that already exists elsewhere and you may see some pushback.
For instance local ham clubs near me support bike races, marathons and other activities. just the sort of thing you look to do. They use simplex or their own repeaters to do so. One such club even has a dedicated repeater for such things. Plenty of room on the ham frequencies to do this as well as organized use of the bands and frequencies and it’s great that they do this. Would this also be great on GMRS? Not so much room on GMRS.  I have witnessed people thinking that because they put a repeater on a GMRS frequency/channel that they somehow have priority to that channel, that it’s theirs. It is not, they do not. Yes we should all be respectful. So people may have concerns and wish to preserve what is all of ours.

As for helping people understand how to use radios, set up repeaters, use of tones, programming, equipment reviews or troubleshooting this place, this forum is here for all that. No gatekeeping isn’t met very well here. My interpretation of gatekeeping is not sharing knowledge, which is just wrong.
We can all work on making this site more welcome.
But you didn’t ask about this site, you asked “Has GMRS lost its welcoming vibe?”. 
I don’t know but if it has it’s because some people think it’s theirs and I would just bet they are part of a club and not the kids up the street giggling on their radios.

I think this is all spot-on.

As a relatively experienced ham and relatively new GMRS user, I see GMRS/FRS as a highly individual service, focused on family and small groups using it for local commo. To look to GMRS for linked repeaters, higher power or social groups is trying to make it something it wasn't intended to be. Some of these ideas would actually be detrimental to the core users for the reasons discussed in their respective threads.

When someone suggests these expansions of GMRS are already well-covered by the amateur radio service, I see ham criticized as being elitist, hostile and difficult to enter, yet I also see complaints of the same (human) behavior here in GMRS land, like this thread.

For anyone interested, ham is very easy to get into these days and already offers ALL of the things that some GMRS users, especially new users, think would benefit GMRS/FRS.

Want to work with repeaters? Ham repeaters outnumber GMRS repeaters 10:1 or more. Most repeater operations are local, but that can vary as desired.

Want to participate in nets? Ham radio nets occur just about every day, often several times a day, on all bands. VHF for local and HF for longer distances.

Want linking? Ham repeaters not only link to other ham repeaters, but also offer "Echolink", where one can participate in repeater nets with only a computer.

Want more power? Amateur radio offers a power limit of 1,500 watts on most bands.

Want more range? When propagation is good, one can literally talk around the world on a simple wire stretched up in the trees.

Want to socialize or join a club? Ham radio clubs abound, and most have many activities.

Want to help out in emergencies? Many hams are very active in emergency and community service contexts. Ham has ARES, RACES and works closely with the National Weather Service during weather events. Our reports go directly to the NWS for distribution to the public and equipment calibration. During any emergency, surviving repeaters are dedicated to emergency service. Individuals maintain battery/generator operated equipment that supports their stations and can continue working during grid-down situations.

The equipment for UHF/VHF is about the same as GMRS and many devices can operate in both arenas.

There are three levels of the amateur radio license: Technician, General and Amateur Extra.

The technician exam is pretty easy and requires a minimum of study, which is well-supported by many 'practice exam' sites. I am a Volunteer Examiner for the FCC and our club give exams almost every month. We seldom see people fail the Tech exam and have had kids as young as 9 years old pass the exam. We are very welcoming and encouraging and are honestly disappointed when someone fails the exam. We give new Tech free membership to our club for the first year, and some clubs provide free radios to new Techs. Help and technical advice is freely given, although, just like here, you will occasionally encounter a person who insists that since you got you license you should therefore know everything needed.

As one progresses through the several license levels, privileges are increased, but even Technician offers all of the things I mentioned above, except perhaps talking around the world on a piece of wire. 

It is true you will find some elitist, grumpy old hams (not like here where everyone is jovial, friendly, welcoming and non-critical), but the clear answer is to simply spin the dial to another of the almost unlimited frequencies. Ham radio is not channelized like CB or FRS/GMRS and there are plenty of good places to be.

Bottom line: If the GMRS radio service doesn't fit your idea of good radio, there may be another radio service that does. Instead of trying to change the service to match your ideas, it is likely better to find a radio service that actually serves your needs.

[WSJA868]

Well,  my local gmrs repeater has weekly nets. They use the radios to communicate with others around the area in a “hey hows it going today “ fashion. Yes people just have conversations on ours. I’m can call out anytime and someone will respond.  Most of the time its a local ham operator. We have several pf them here that utilize the gmrs as well. As well as joining the weekly nets. Coming in the near future they will use said repeater for communication for an AIDS ride event. So as I see it, Different regions different types of transmissions. Yes, I am newly licensed,  however also had a unit # under family for quite some time before that. 

[SeaScholar]

I wanted to address this quote separately.

  

41 minutes ago, dosw said:

... to facilitate the activities of licensees and their immediate family members. The word "activities" is useful here. While rag chewing might be considered an "activity", I suspect they used the word thinking more of family outings, friends out doing things, and so on.

For the most part this is correct. There is explicit additions for the use of "public service" type activities, (ie CERT and SkyWarn) - and businesses. But I also see that they are trying to push the businesses side out even though they have them grandfathered (for now).

[WRUU653]

23 minutes ago, SeaScholar said:

Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

I didn’t know it was one, I just wanted to be sure I understood what you were saying and not make assumptions. 

[marcspaz]

I feel the community at large is welcoming. There are a lot of people i have met that love to share knowledge and experiences. Especially to help new people.

 

I will say that there are several things that happen that can make some individuals seem abrasive. One is a combination of two things, being some folks just don't do well expressing opinions in writing, and others read things that have been written and attribute malice when there was no intent. Both of these cases can lead to misunderstandings and hurt feelings. 

 

Another issue is that some people (including myself on occasion) have decades of experience, correct someone who is simply mistaken, and then the thread turns into a shit-show because ego starts to kick in.

 

That said, i feel like those instances are far and few between. I also know for a fact that several members here argue like that hate each other, but are literally friends and spend social time together in person. (This applies to me and a small group here, too) So, not everything here is as it seems.

So, generally speaking, i think GMRS operators and the community at large are welcoming and friendly. 

3 hours ago, UncleYoda said:

You're not being targeted/harassed (yet).  Say (post) something the Jeep crowd doesn't like and report back later.  There are several that should have been banned but they have paid memberships.

 

I would hope money isn't the only reason. I have seen Rich be very forgiving to people on all sides, paid members and free members. That said, if there truly is a problem with someone, paid member or not, I think there should be some grace... but if it's not resolved, definitely let them go after a few attempts. 

[WRUU653]

4 hours ago, amaff said:

I had to circle back to this. Congratulations sir, you have successfully planted this ear worm. I’m walking around humming this for hours wondering why…