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New and extremely confused Simplex/Repeaters


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#1 jjohns39

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 02:24 PM

Hey Guys, 

 

sorry for the newb topic but Im struggling to make sense of simplex/repeater frequencies. I purchased the midland GXT1000, and also the MXT400. I am trying to use them to communicate with my wife while I am at work. I cannot for the life of me figure out the repeater channels, or if I even have access to the repeater channels or if I am only simplex. I'de like to just be simplex, but from what I am understanding channels 15-22 are repeater channels. However the GXT1000's do not support repeater channels. At least that is what I have read. So can I use channels 15-22 as simplex without going through a repeater and use the full 50watts? Or are those channels in deed repeater channels and I need to request permission to use them? Right now I am sticking with channels 1-7 but I'de like to be able to use more power to transmit further range. Hope this question makes sense. I have been researching for days now and I cannot find a concrete answer for my situation. Do you guys have any recommendations?

 

Thanks

Josh



#2 Elkhunter521

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 02:38 PM

Hi Josh, The MXT400 is repeater capable. (Lots of opinions about this radio, read appropriate forums.) The GTX1000 is simplex only. You can use channels 15 thru 22 in simplex mode with either radio. Make sure the MXT400 is showing the channel number without an "r" on the display (following the channel number )
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#3 WRCX764

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 03:32 PM

Here is what I understand about simplex and repeater modes. Bare with me as I am still learning.

 

Channels 1-7 are not used by repeaters. Channels 15-22 can be used in simplex but can also be used by repeaters as receiving.

 

Repeaters are setup in frequency pairs. Lets say there is a repeater in your area that you have permission to use. You have been informed to use 462.550. To properly access that repeater, you would need to set your radio to the given frequency, set the repeater shift direction to a + then set the frequency offset to 5MHz. If provided a PL, this will also need to be programmed. End result, when you press the PTT button, traffic is transmitted over 467.550 to the repeater. It will then take that transmission and send it over the 462.550 frequency. Anyone that can listen to that frequency will hear your traffic but will not be able to respond unless they a repeater capable radio with the proper settings in place.



#4 Elkhunter521

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 03:54 PM

With the MXT400 the offset is built in. Page 22 in your manual describes activating the repeater function. This only has to be done once, not for each repeater channel. After activation, scroll slowly thru channel 15 thru 22, the radio will then start over at rp15 thru rp22.
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#5 Elkhunter521

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 04:03 PM

Josh, one point, all radios receive on channels 15 thru 22, 462.xxx.
In repeater mode radios transmitt on 467.xxx but still receive on 462.xxx.( duplex )
The repeater is opposite, receiving on 467.xxx and transmitting on 462.xxx.
Your XMT400 has 2 sets of channels. One simplex, one duplex.
This is seperate from 467.xxx FRS channels 8 thru 14.
Be vewy vewy quiet.
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#6 jjohns39

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 05:52 PM

Thank you guys for the help and clearing this up. So what I am understanding from your first comment Elkhunter is all I'll need to do is set the MXT400 to simplex and I'll be good to go corresponding between my two radios. Im not sure why I couldn't find this info elsewhere but I really appreciate the help. I'm learning this bit by bit, working on getting my technicians license. This was much more in depth than I ever imagined. 

 

Thanks guys!



#7 quarterwave

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:14 PM

Essentially, these radios are built so the channel numbers match up, if you put both on, say, channel 12 with the same code (or no code) you can talk. Of course there are particulars on power based on which channel it is, primarily in the handheld. On the repeater side, that's another ball game, and since you have found out that the handheld you have is not repeater capable, that's probably not your concern now.

 

However, from reading what you originally wrote, I would ask if you understood that there has to be a local repeater (a physical piece of equipment someone is operating) in service, and you would have to know the info for it, and have permission to use it...before you can "use" it? 

 

Don't get bummed, just ask people here. Lots of people just getting into it and learning, and some like me that have been in radio (not just GMRS) for 30 years or more! 



#8 Elkhunter521

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:38 PM

Josh, just make sure the screen does not say rp in front of the channel number, 15 - 22, and you will be in simplex mode just like the GTX1000 and will be able to talk between them,
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#9 shaine

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 07:47 PM

Not meant to add to the confusion.

If, for example, your MXT400 is set to 15 rp and connected to the repeater, and the GXT1000 is set to 15 with the same CTCSS as the repeater, they can talk to each other provided they are in simplex range.

What happens is that the MXT400 will transmit on a frequency to the repeater. The repeated signal will come back on 15, which both the MXT400 and GXT1000 can hear.

When transmitting from the GXT1000, it will bypass the repeater and go straight to channel 15, simplex, which the MXT400 can hear on 15 rp.

So, if you are out and about, it is possible to listen to repeater traffic on a simple bubble pack HT like the GXT1000. You would also be able to talk to others within HT range provided you have the same CTCSS/DCS tone.

This overlap can be convenient in some circumstances.

Personally, I have the GXT1000, MXT275, and MXT115. I use the HT to monitor the repeater. If there is repeater traffic, I can go to the kitchen or one of the cars to reply.


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#10 Jones

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Posted 28 February 2019 - 10:54 AM

What happens is that the MXT400 will transmit on a frequency to the repeater. The repeated signal will come back on 15, which both the MXT400 and GXT1000 can hear.

When transmitting from the GXT1000, it will bypass the repeater and go straight to channel 15, simplex, which the MXT400 can hear on 15 rp.

So, if you are out and about, it is possible to listen to repeater traffic on a simple bubble pack HT like the GXT1000. You would also be able to talk to others within HT range provided you have the same CTCSS/DCS tone.

This overlap can be convenient in some circumstances.
 

 

Yes, I think you are understanding this.



#11 VeritasVosLiberabit

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 11:26 AM

Not meant to add to the confusion.

If, for example, your MXT400 is set to 15 rp and connected to the repeater, and the GXT1000 is set to 15 with the same CTCSS as the repeater, they can talk to each other provided they are in simplex range.

What happens is that the MXT400 will transmit on a frequency to the repeater. The repeated signal will come back on 15, which both the MXT400 and GXT1000 can hear.

When transmitting from the GXT1000, it will bypass the repeater and go straight to channel 15, simplex, which the MXT400 can hear on 15 rp.

So, if you are out and about, it is possible to listen to repeater traffic on a simple bubble pack HT like the GXT1000. You would also be able to talk to others within HT range provided you have the same CTCSS/DCS tone.

This overlap can be convenient in some circumstances.

Personally, I have the GXT1000, MXT275, and MXT115. I use the HT to monitor the repeater. If there is repeater traffic, I can go to the kitchen or one of the cars to reply.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Maybe I don't know any better, but I have the MXT275 as well and have to put it in monitor mode every I time I want to hear someone respond to me via the repeater. The offset or whatever it's called is not automatic. I'm so annoyed with Midland. If anyone else starts manufacturing a truly repeater-capable mobile GMRS radio with the controls in the mic like the MXT275, it will beat everyone else since there's no reason to put controls anywhere else for vehicle applications.



#12 Jones

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 12:02 PM

Maybe I don't know any better, but I have the MXT275 as well and have to put it in monitor mode every I time I want to hear someone respond to me via the repeater. The offset or whatever it's called is not automatic. I'm so annoyed with Midland. If anyone else starts manufacturing a truly repeater-capable mobile GMRS radio with the controls in the mic like the MXT275, it will beat everyone else since there's no reason to put controls anywhere else for vehicle applications.

This sounds like a possible split-tone issue.  This has been discussed before.  The Midlands are set up to use the same CTCSS tone on TX and RX, with no way to set split-tones, or open squelch on RX.

 

Remember: CTCSS, tone squelch, tone access, privacy code, quiet code, select-a-call, or whatever brand-name they call it is all the same thing.



#13 RickW

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 12:50 PM

Shaine had a good explanation of listening on the receive frequency for either a direct simplex, or simultganeously receiving via a repeater on that frequency. We have 2 MXT 400's, 2 MXT 115's, and 2 B-Tech GMRS-V1's. The MXT's do have the limitation that when you set a PL or DPL tone, it has to be for both TX and RX.

 

Jones above, seems to suggest that the squelch can not be opened on these units, but of course they can by pressing and holding the monitor button. Because of this "capability" we could use a repeater in our area on Channel 17 that has a particular input tone, which is known, but has a different output tone. One could leave the squelch open on channel 17, but you would have to leave it there.  I don't think that you can scan with the squelch open. The Midlands units do not appear to allow even changing channels when the squelch is bypassed with the monitor button. 

 

Sort of like 50 years ago before we had repeaters and some of us, with very little money, were lucky to have a Heathkit Twoer for 2 meter simplex AM, but it did not come with squelch, so you had the background rushing sound present if you wanted to monitor.






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