Using UV-82C for Part 95E

[gortex2]

the central issue: i forget if i saw it here or on r/gmrs, but it was stated by a repeater owner that they had configured their repeater with split tones with the intent to keep midland users off their repeater. while that's absolutely their right as the owner, it's hard not to see that as a form of elitism, be it directed toward the equipment, or at beginners.

I have mine setup the same way at a couple of sites, for the reason of the illegal users that were continually using the repeater both unknowingly and knowingly. After 6 months of trying to keep the bubble pack and other folks off the repeater I changed to a DPL and PL mixed configuration. All my commercial gear allowed this and it stopped interference. I spent alot of money on a repeater, tower, hard line, antenna, electric and other associated costs to be at a tower. Its for me to decide who get to use my repeater. 

 

On similar subject I have another repeater that was at a county park. I got tons of complaints on how it worked. every time I did a PM it was rock solid. One of the complainers was a ski patrol guy from a mountain nearby who liked to use that cause there radios didn't work. after 3 trips to the repeater and doing all sorts of testing I asked to meet him and look at his radio. He had the midland mobile (dont remember model) and a handful of bubble pack radios. I explained to him this was indeed the issue and as i explained that also realized other than him no one else was licenced. I attempted to educate him on the issues with the "junk" he bought however could not convince him.I volunteered to leave him one of my older HT's to use that weekend. Everything was fine. The following week when i picked up the radio he said he planned to get one..until he found what it costs. He was bewildered he had to pay $100 for a radio to use the repeater when he could buy a 2 pack on amazon of some other radio for $35.00.....At this point I gave up. Repeater has since been removed due to said group of non compliment users,. Sad part was this was installed at the county park for users of the park.

 

At my new house I have 2 repeaters. I specifically have one in NB mode as my parents have a Midland radio. Its still not ideal but it works for them.I run my channel in WB and still use my commercial gear. In the end its what works for the users of the system, and who maintains the system.

[wayoverthere]

I think you may be missing a few things...

1. You quote 1 repeater operator, and then use that as a basis for deciding some policy is elitist.
2. Repeater owners do not need to use technical specifications to limit who can use their repeater, then can decide on any (legal) basis they want​. (I.e. they probably can't discriminate based on race, religion, etc.) But, even that is questionable since a private repeater is like a private club and not normally subject to such legal restrictions.
3. It is quite possible that the base issue was narrow-band vs wide-band. In which case adding configuration settings to restrict the offending radios would be warranted.

In other words, as Groucho Marx said "...I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member".

 

I have mine setup the same way at a couple of sites, for the reason of the illegal users that were continually using the repeater both unknowingly and knowingly. After 6 months of trying to keep the bubble pack and other folks off the repeater I changed to a DPL and PL mixed configuration. All my commercial gear allowed this and it stopped interference. I spent alot of money on a repeater, tower, hard line, antenna, electric and other associated costs to be at a tower. Its for me to decide who get to use my repeater. 

 

On similar subject I have another repeater that was at a county park. I got tons of complaints on how it worked. every time I did a PM it was rock solid. One of the complainers was a ski patrol guy from a mountain nearby who liked to use that cause there radios didn't work. after 3 trips to the repeater and doing all sorts of testing I asked to meet him and look at his radio. He had the midland mobile (dont remember model) and a handful of bubble pack radios. I explained to him this was indeed the issue and as i explained that also realized other than him no one else was licenced. I attempted to educate him on the issues with the "junk" he bought however could not convince him.I volunteered to leave him one of my older HT's to use that weekend. Everything was fine. The following week when i picked up the radio he said he planned to get one..until he found what it costs. He was bewildered he had to pay $100 for a radio to use the repeater when he could buy a 2 pack on amazon of some other radio for $35.00.....At this point I gave up. Repeater has since been removed due to said group of non compliment users,. Sad part was this was installed at the county park for users of the park.

 

At my new house I have 2 repeaters. I specifically have one in NB mode as my parents have a Midland radio. Its still not ideal but it works for them.I run my channel in WB and still use my commercial gear. In the end its what works for the users of the system, and who maintains the system.

 

 

I will concede i'm (perhaps over)generalizing based on that statement.  possibly some of it is a matter of perspective from where i sit on the inexperience end of things; i can definitely look back on other areas and notice how my perspectives have shifted some. 

 

to me, the "why" behind the statement/stance, is probably the biggest determining factor in how i view it, honestly. if it's a simple 'i don't want to deal with beginners', yeah, that's toward the stronger end of seeing it as an elitist attitude.  kb2ztx, the examples you bring up (in a general sense, yours berkinet, as well) illustrate the opposite end; had ongoing problems with users, and while perhaps not ideal to go that route, it's probably the only viable solution left to deal with users that weren't willing to help themselves.

 

i also still stand by the statement that regardless of my opinion of the motivation behind it, i still agree that it absolutely IS the right of the owner to configure however they see fit, include or exclude as they fit, and set whatever requirements they want; my opinion of their motivation has no bearing on that.

 

finally, i appreciate the time you've both put into this topic (and into educating and discussion on the forum overall), and that whether or not we agree, it can still be a civil discussion.

[berkinet]

... if it's a simple 'i don't want to deal with beginners', yeah, that's toward the stronger end of seeing it as an elitist attitude ....

 

Thanks. That helps understand your view of this.  May I suggest that you look at what GMRS is intended for.  From the regulations

47 CFR § 95.1703 - Definitions, GMRS

General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS). A mobile two-way voice communication service, with limited data applications, for facilitating activities of individual licensees and their family members, including, but not limited to, voluntary provision of assistance to the public during emergencies and natural disasters.

 

So, while there is nothing to prevent GMRS from being used as a general CB like service. That is not part of the basic intention. This is further supported by the identification requirements for repeaters... no repeater ID is required as long as all users operate under the license of the repeater owner.  The point of this is that most repeaters are formed by and for the use of limited numbers of users. Usually members of a family or small group and they usually have relationships outside of the radio world. As such, there is no broad community, and therefore, no real concept of new-comers or old-timers. At least not like there is in more open community services like ham and CB.  On the other extreme are GMRS repeaters for travelers, etc. In these cases many users are transient, and again the idea of new or old doesn't really apply.

 

To expand this a bit, look at ham radio, especially UHF/VHF repeaters. There you may often see tightly knit communities of people who's only relationship to each other is solely via the repeater. In these cases you do sometimes see people tagged as new-comers, and there are definitely elitist communities.

 

So, I'd say take an objective look at GMRS and then see if your feelings change.

[BoxCar]

If one takes a look at the FCC's description for the Citizens Band Radio Service you will  note a statement that GMRS serves a similar type of service. Stating GMRS is meant primarily for communications between members of the same family as intended in the rules does not agree with the statements in other sections of the same rules. Just as CB was originally intended for communications between licensed stations much as amateur radio continues to be it is still an open system that can be used by any operator to communicate as desired. Sometimes it is better to read the rules and their wording for intent using a shovel than a scalpel. There are many areas of the rules that are to be taken exactly as written but determining intent of a particular section often has to be taken broadly and compared to other sections. 

[wayoverthere]

Thanks. That helps understand your view of this.  May I suggest that you look at what GMRS is intended for.  From the regulations

47 CFR § 95.1703 - Definitions, GMRS

General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS). A mobile two-way voice communication service, with limited data applications, for facilitating activities of individual licensees and their family members, including, but not limited to, voluntary provision of assistance to the public during emergencies and natural disasters.

 

So, while there is nothing to prevent GMRS from being used as a general CB like service. That is not part of the basic intention. This is further supported by the identification requirements for repeaters... no repeater ID is required as long as all users operate under the license of the repeater owner.  The point of this is that most repeaters are formed by and for the use of limited numbers of users. Usually members of a family or small group and they usually have relationships outside of the radio world. As such, there is no broad community, and therefore, no real concept of new-comers or old-timers. At least not like there is in more open community services like ham and CB.  On the other extreme are GMRS repeaters for travelers, etc. In these cases many users are transient, and again the idea of new or old doesn't really apply.

 

To expand this a bit, look at ham radio, especially UHF/VHF repeaters. There you may often see tightly knit communities of people who's only relationship to each other is solely via the repeater. In these cases you do sometimes see people tagged as new-comers, and there are definitely elitist communities.

 

So, I'd say take an objective look at GMRS and then see if your feelings change.

Bearing Boxcar's point in mind (taking the statements in the regulations broadly, rather than as strictly binding) that does make a definite difference in perspective.

 

I've been looking at the broad amount of information available on repeaters, the sort of "community" in the linked repeaters and the nets, and people sharing their stories of communications, combined with the marketing of GMRS in offroad communications, and I've been thinking of GMRS as a sort of "Ham-lite". 

 

I guess the reality that "community" is a lot smaller piece of the big picture of GMRS than it seemed, and both in intent and largely in practice, GMRS is actually a lot closer to being "FRS-plus". 

 

I think I've also missed the context a lot of these stories are part of; that most people have a lot more "connections" than i do, that some of this "community" fits into, be it friends, family, or social groups/clubs.