Can I use GMRS if i'm close to CANADA

[Guest Jason]

So I'm new to GMRS, got my license last week, and I'm reading that some frequencies may interfere with CANADA; that there are regulations to operate Freq's below 740Mhz if you are north of Line A. 

 

Well, according to the FCC map, I'm north of Line A, I'm out of the Detroit area of Michigan. The information is sort of vague from the FCC, or I'm so novice that I cannot comprehend it. Regardless, I'm just trying to get a straight answer of, Can I use my GMRS radio.

 

I just ordered a Midland MXT400 40watts micromobile with a 6db antenna. I'm afraid I may have just wasted my money if I can't use it. 

 

I did notice that there are GMRS repeaters around me, so I feel that I must be able to operate, but I'm confused. Anyone want to help me here?

 

Thanks

J

[WRAK968]

The rule states as follows "Licensees who operate North of Line A and East of Line C may not operate on channels 462.650 MHZ,467.650 MHZ, 462.700 MHZ and 467.700 MHZ unless your previous license authorized such operations."
 

Thus, Channels 19 and 21 are not permitted to be used north of Line A. All other channels are ok as long as you follow part 95 rules.
 

[WRAK968]

The rule states as follows "Licensees who operate North of Line A and East of Line C may not operate on channels 462.650 MHZ,467.650 MHZ, 462.700 MHZ and 467.700 MHZ unless your previous license authorized such operations."

 

Thus, Channels 19 and 21 are not permitted to be used north of Line A. All other channels are ok as long as you follow part 95 rules.

 

Also, if I recall, this is printed on the bottom of your FCC license.

[yakovich]

Also, just as an FYI, don't forget at if you are North of Line A or East of Line C you cannot contact a foreign station unless as noted in the CFR I would imagine that would include any foreign repeaters.

 

§95.1733   Prohibited GMRS uses.

(9) Messages (except emergency messages) to any station in the Amateur Radio Service, to any unauthorized station, or to any foreign station;

[Lscott]

 I'm out of the Detroit area of Michigan.

 

Seems you're in the same metro area, around Detroit, as me. This a bit off topic but if you're within about 20 miles of interstate 75 and 15 mile road, Big Beaver, in the city of Troy is where a nice repeater is located you can use for GMRS. It's a closed machine but all you need to do is email the owner and ask permission. Several friends have done the same and he doesn't have a problem letting the public use it. He just wants to know who is accessing it. I think all you need to do is ask for permission and give your FCC assigned call sign. The listing is in the "myGMRS.com" site's repeater database. Look for the state of Michigan. The repeater is listed as Troy575. There are two shown. You want the second one in the list. The first one is an older listing for the same machine but the data and contact info is wrong or out of date. That's the topic of another thread elsewhere, bad, out of date repeater info in the database.

 

This should be the correct link below.

 

https://mygmrs.com/view?id=3562

 

You will need to register on this site and login to get the input, output frequencies and access tones or ask for it in your email from the owner.

 

There is another one listed in the Westland/Canton area which is an open repeater, no permission required, but the coverage map shows a smaller area. I haven't accessed it yet from my location and I don't know if it's currently in operation. I think the owner is still in the process of setting things up and this is a fairly new listing.

 

This is the link:

 

https://mygmrs.com/view?id=3808

 

The owner of the Troy575 machine sent an email out, to the people requesting access permission, about a week or so back asking if there was any interest in setting up an informal "net". The idea was the various users can get together to chit-chat for a while. The repeater doesn't see much use and I monitor it frequently along with several Ham UHF machines near me. I haven't heard anything further about the net from the owner.

 

Congratulations on getting licensed!

[Lscott]

 within about 20 miles of interstate 75 and 15 mile road, Big Beaver, in the city of Troy is where a nice repeater is located you can use for GMRS.

Oops that should have been 16 mile road, not 15 mile. The road name I got right at least.

[WRAK968]

Seems you're in the same metro area, around Detroit, as me. This a bit off topic but if you're within about 20 miles of interstate 75 and 15 mile road, Big Beaver, in the city of Troy is where a nice repeater is located you can use for GMRS. It's a closed machine but all you need to do is email the owner and ask permission. Several friends have done the same and he doesn't have a problem letting the public use it. He just wants to know who is accessing it. I think all you need to do is ask for permission and give your FCC assigned call sign. The listing is in the "myGMRS.com" site's repeater database. Look for the state of Michigan. The repeater is listed as Troy575. There are two shown. You want the second one in the list. The first one is an older listing for the same machine but the data and contact info is wrong or out of date. That's the topic of another thread elsewhere, bad, out of date repeater info in the database.

 

This should be the correct link below.

 

https://mygmrs.com/view?id=3562

 

You will need to register on this site and login to get the input, output frequencies and access tones or ask for it in your email from the owner.

 

There is another one listed in the Westland/Canton area which is an open repeater, no permission required, but the coverage map shows a smaller area. I haven't accessed it yet from my location and I don't know if it's currently in operation. I think the owner is still in the process of setting things up and this is a fairly new listing.

 

This is the link:

 

https://mygmrs.com/view?id=3808

 

The owner of the Troy575 machine sent an email out, to the people requesting access permission, about a week or so back asking if there was any interest in setting up an informal "net". The idea was the various users can get together to chit-chat for a while. The repeater doesn't see much use and I monitor it frequently along with several Ham UHF machines near me. I haven't heard anything further about the net from the owner.

 

Congratulations on getting licensed!

Not exactly what was asked (They know about the local repeaters to them) but good information anyways.

[berkinet]

The rule states as follows "Licensees who operate North of Line A and East of Line C may not operate on channels 462.650 MHZ,467.650 MHZ, 462.700 MHZ and 467.700 MHZ unless your previous license authorized such operations."...

 

 

Have you re-checked since the rules were changed in 2017 (When Part95-A became Part95-E)? The border area rules used to be in Part95-A § 95.25 Land station description.  But, I do not see any such reference in the new Part95-E.

[WRAK968]

Have you re-checked since the rules were changed in 2017 (When Part95-A became Part95-E)? The border area rules used to be in Part95-A § 95.25 Land station description.  But, I do not see any such reference in the new Part95-E.

I received my license after the rules change, however the line restriction is still printed on my license, so Ill say the rule still exists in some form. This rule was typed word for word from my license.

[Lscott]

Have you re-checked since the rules were changed in 2017 (When Part95-A became Part95-E)? The border area rules used to be in Part95-A § 95.25 Land station description.  But, I do not see any such reference in the new Part95-E.

My license was issued on 8-3-2018 and it still has the frequency exclusions listed at the bottom. Until the FCC changes the rules we are stuck with it.

 

Have a look here. These are the Canadian FRS/GMRS rules that I found.

 

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf01320.html

 

You need to scroll down to where it shows "Annex E" then click on the link to expand it. Then look for section "E.1.2 Channel Frequencies".

 

You'll notice the allowed frequencies are not the same as for the US GMRS service. What's missing are the repeater 467 MHz input frequencies. Specifically 467.650 MHz and 467.700 MHz. The 462.650 MHz and 462.700 MHz are listed however.

 

Now look at section "E.1.5 Transmitter output power and effective radiated power (e.r.p)". What you notice are the bandwidth and power are the same as the rules for the US FRS only radios but they also apply to the Canadian GMRS radios.

 

So for all practical purposes the Canadian "FRS/GMRS" radios are the same as the new rules for the US "FRS" only radios.

 

On a side note. The US has five frequencies listed for the license free VHF MURS service. Canada was looking at doing the same thing back around 2014 I think. It never happened. If you have any MURS radios don't use them there.

[berkinet]

I do not doubt what is printed on your licenses. What I do doubt is whether or not it is current and applicable. Take a look at this post in a thread from 2017. Then note the limitation is specifically mentioned in the old regulations, but not in the new version. If there is such a rule, it must be written somewhere, but I sure can't find it.

 

Since I am far from any US border, this is just of academic interest to me. However, my guess is that after the FCC updated the regulations in 2017, someone forgot to turn off the software that checks for location and adds the warning. Perhaps someone who is directly affected by this might want to write the FCC and ask.

[Lscott]

I do not doubt what is printed on your licenses. What I do doubt is whether or not it is current and applicable.

From what I can see checking the Canadian frequency allocation at least two of the excluded frequencies are not allocated to the Canadian FRS/GMRS service. Those would be for the US 467 MHz repeater inputs. Excluding those would make some sense. So I would assume that still applies. The other two are listed for the Canadian FRS/GMRS service. It would appear those two could be used and allowed by the FCC.

 

I agree that something likely is messed up with the license restrictions. As you pointed out it might have gotten missed. It won't be the first time the FCC messed things up.

[Guest Lionlamb]

On 5/22/2020 at 8:13 AM, Lscott said:

From what I can see checking the Canadian frequency allocation at least two of the excluded frequencies are not allocated to the Canadian FRS/GMRS service. Those would be for the US 467 MHz repeater inputs. Excluding those would make some sense. So I would assume that still applies. The other two are listed for the Canadian FRS/GMRS service. It would appear those two could be used and allowed by the FCC.

 

I agree that something likely is messed up with the license restrictions. As you pointed out it might have gotten missed. It won't be the first time the FCC messed things up.

It is important to note that many more sections of FCC Rules and International Treaties (beyond just Part 95) often apply to all radio operations.  The portion that specifies Line "A" (and more) are established by Treaty (and still quite valid) and can be found here: https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-technology/electromagnetic-compatibility-division/frequency-coordination-canada-below

[Guest Mick24]

What Lat/Lon is associated with “Line A & Line C”? Or where can I verify boundaries on a map?

[wayoverthere]

18 minutes ago, Guest Mick24 said:

What Lat/Lon is associated with “Line A & Line C”? Or where can I verify boundaries on a map?

MDARC has a good explanation/drawing/info.

https://www.mdarc.org/regulations/line-a-line-c

[wrci350]

The FCC also has a zoomable map here:

https://www.fcc.gov/reports-research/maps/frequency-coordination-canada/

[gortex2]

basic rule of thumb is 60 miles from boarder