New to GMRS - need advice

[rherman]

Hello, been lurking for a few months off and on and now getting more serious only to get more lost in the weeds.  So here to say Hello and also ask some questions.

 

I am looking to setup a base station (maybe repeater also).  We just purchased a decent parcel of land and cell service is near non-existed.  Also National forest is about 5 miles away with vast areas to explore.  So looking to start with a high power base station and radios are just all over.  Do I go with a newer B-tech mobile unit with 50 watts or find a commercial UHF radio?  What Antenna etc.

 

So a bit more about my location, rolling terrain.  Nothing to large, I do have access to about a 40 foot tower (Currently running some 2.4ghz wireless internet connections on).   Mobiles will be used in the UTV such as maybe the Midland's at a min. of 15 watt and HT's when on the tractor/hunting etc.  I have the UV5r but know they are not type accepted so may just get the btech GMRS HT.  I plan to just stay in the upper channels and not mess with the FRS and FRS/GMRS channels.

 

For the HT, I would be within 5 miles of the base station the majority of the time.  It's when I go out into the National forest I would be 20 to 30 miles and would be with a good mobile unit back to the base station.

 

So any help on which radio and a good antenna to start with knowing that the end goal would be to have a good repeater setup (maybe simplex first then duplex)?  Also not many repeaters for GMRS in Missouri, which really sucks 

 

TIA

Rueben

[Lscott]

Generally I would go with good used commercial UHF radios for base, mobile and handheld use. Some maybe even Part 95 certified. From various comments even people using Part 90 radios have had no issues with the FCC when using them. In fact they are used for building GMRS repeater systems. Look over past posts for lots of good recommendations and reviews of what's out there. Personally I like Kenwood.

 

The commercial UHF radios have far better receivers than the Chinese radios, and their derivatives, and that can make or break a communication setup. You may save some money in the short run but end up disappointed later with the performance. It pays to start off with good equipment.

 

While a repeater may sound like a good idea I would get a basic system operational first to evaluate if you even need one. Building a repeater takes a bit of expertise and some expense to do it right. If it proves you really need one you can always work on procuring the necessary equipment later.

 

As far as antennas again look through past posts. Lots of opinions and some good recommendations can be found there. Besides the antenna you also have to consider the cable run between the base radio, or repeater if that's what you need, and the antenna. A poor choice in cable will result in high losses, negating the higher power output from a base radio and lower signals levels on receive. Low loss coax cable isn't cheap. Also make sure you use "N" type connectors everywhere you can. The common PL-239/SO-259 type will cause you problems with higher reflected power, high SWR. In some cases you just can't get away from them like on the mobile radios so you just have to live with it. You'll also need to ensure the antenna is well grounded and use a high quality in-line lighting arrester to protect your equipment and house. A few people even disconnect the coax from the radio, placing the end in a glass jar, during bad thunder storms. Paranoid, yes, but its additional protection. 

 

The antenna should be a type that has a "DC ground". This means the antenna can be grounded for DC current. With a base antenna up in the air they can accumulate a substantial static electric charge just from wind. A few people have been knocked for a loop when they touched the end of the coax when it wasn't connected to anything on a clear day. You also don't need the static charge doing bad things to your radio either.    

[BoxCar]

I second going with commercial/public safety grade equipment. You can check your state and county property disposal units for radios. The equipment available through those outlets is a very mixed bag ranging from excellent to scrap. You may have to purchase by the lot but you can sell the excess units on flea bay.

[rherman]

Thanks Guy's, so I found a couple different Kenwoods TX-880H-1 & TK-8180-K  & two Vertex's  a VX-2200-G7-45 and a VX2500U   I'm thinking about a Comet CA-712EFC and about 75' of LMR-400 cable.   

 

Any suggestions on which one is better.  Should I be looking for other models?  I would like to find a good model to start and try under $200 and see how things go and add another later .  I would also like to be able to program the radio's myself.  I read ALOT on the kenwoods today but not much on the Vertex's but see them referenced a lot in searches.

 

Thanks again!

 

Rueben

[jimndfw]

Hello, been lurking for a few months off and on and now getting more serious only to get more lost in the weeds.  So here to say Hello and also ask some questions.

 

I am looking to setup a base station (maybe repeater also).  We just purchased a decent parcel of land and cell service is near non-existed.  Also National forest is about 5 miles away with vast areas to explore.  So looking to start with a high power base station and radios are just all over.  Do I go with a newer B-tech mobile unit with 50 watts or find a commercial UHF radio?  What Antenna etc.

 

So a bit more about my location, rolling terrain.  Nothing to large, I do have access to about a 40 foot tower (Currently running some 2.4ghz wireless internet connections on).   Mobiles will be used in the UTV such as maybe the Midland's at a min. of 15 watt and HT's when on the tractor/hunting etc.  I have the UV5r but know they are not type accepted so may just get the btech GMRS HT.  I plan to just stay in the upper channels and not mess with the FRS and FRS/GMRS channels.

 

For the HT, I would be within 5 miles of the base station the majority of the time.  It's when I go out into the National forest I would be 20 to 30 miles and would be with a good mobile unit back to the base station.

 

So any help on which radio and a good antenna to start with knowing that the end goal would be to have a good repeater setup (maybe simplex first then duplex)?  Also not many repeaters for GMRS in Missouri, which really sucks 

 

TIA

Rueben

 

Sent you a PM. 

[tweiss3]

Thanks Guy's, so I found a couple different Kenwoods TX-880H-1 & TK-8180-K  & two Vertex's  a VX-2200-G7-45 and a VX2500U   I'm thinking about a Comet CA-712EFC and about 75' of LMR-400 cable.   

 

Any suggestions on which one is better.  Should I be looking for other models?  I would like to find a good model to start and try under $200 and see how things go and add another later .  I would also like to be able to program the radio's myself.  I read ALOT on the kenwoods today but not much on the Vertex's but see them referenced a lot in searches.

 

Thanks again!

 

Rueben

 

The 8180 is Part 95 certified, but only 30W, the 8180H is 45W.

 

I recently bought two 8150's and really like the Kenwood stuff. That 880 you should be able to get for about $100.

[berkinet]

Regarding the possibility of setting up a repeater… If most or all of your communications will be between your base station and remote portable or mobile units, and you have good radio contact from your base station to the entire property, you probably don’t need a repeater. OTOH, depending on the need to talk between mobile/portable units, you might need a repeater if there were locations on your property that were shielded from reaching other locations.

 

Though, as has already been noted, I would certainly try using simplex first to see if everything works as you desire, before spending any effort on a repeater.

[Lscott]

Just for fun I looked for some info on the Kenwood TK-8180 or TK-8180H radio. It looks nice. What I noticed from the Kenwood brochure there are two band splits depending on model "type". Either one will work for GMRS, however if at some point you have a desire to get your Ham license, the Tech Class is very easy, then the "type 2" is what you want. It will work over the complete Ham 70cm band AND the GMRS frequencies.

 

https://pdfs.kenwoodproducts.com/28/TK-7180&8180MPTBrochure.pdf

 

From some notes elsewhere on the Internet you can program the "type 1" radio down into the upper part of the Ham Band, 430 MHz to 450 MHz, but the VCO has problems locking to those frequencies. Seems like the trouble starts around 441 MHz to 442 MHz. Below those frequencies the radio likely won't work.

 

The "type 2" radio is spec'd from 400 MHz to 470 MHz. GMRS runs from about 462 MHz to just under 468 MHz. So this model could be used for both services when programmed correctly. That saves having two radios.

 

If it was me I would get the "type 2" since I'm dual licensed, if you can find one. I'll guess most are the "type 1" radios. Looking at a few eBay listings the sellers don't make it explicitly clear what model they are selling. Sometimes the description is just plain wrong. Look very carefully at the FCC and nameplate stickers in the photos. The model number may show something like "TK-8180H-K" which doesn't appear in the manufacture's brochure so its  a bit questionable which "type" it is. My guess would be a "type 1".

 

Oh, you do want to make sure it has an FCC ID tag.

 

First with the FCC tag, and the certification number on it, you can check to see what parts the radio is certified for. Additionally in the grant the frequency ranges the radio is certified for along with the bandwidth and power are listed. That's serves as a check on whatever the seller claims as the spec's for the radio.

 

Second as an example I ended up getting a hand held radio a while back that was a European model, didn't notice it had no FCC ID tag. The radio needed a hard to find version of the programming software. The radio worked fine once programmed. Further the code plug for the European model and US model I have can't be swapped. There were some feature differences that made the code plugs incompatible so now I have two separate codes plugs instead of one for the two radios. 

[rherman]

Thanks everyone!

 

so I just picked up an 8180HK, I read a lot on the V1 vs V2 also.  But found it so hard to get folks to even know what they had and could not find anything in the label to say definitely on the radio itself.  Either way even if I got my Ham license having a V1 wouldn't be a total loss so took my chance and hope its a V2.   Now I need to find a good antenna tuned for the 462.500 area to go on a mast about 35-45 feet up.  I keep finding such conflicting information, thought I was going to go with a comet but then found all kinds of negative conversations in the forums so back to square 1 as I know a good antenna is important.

[Savage]

How does the kenwood tk-8360H compare to the TK-8180?

 

I ask because most of the 8180's on ebay look pretty beat.  The 8360 is a little more money but they seem to be in better shape.

 

Any opinion on whether this is a good deal or better to buy a radio only and the accessories separately?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KENWOOD-TK-8360HU-1-UHF-450-520MHZ-40-WATTS-128-CH-RADIO-READY-TO-INSTALL/174309748834?hash=item2895abb062:g:rqoAAOSw3iRe3UbF

 

or 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kenwood-TK-8360HU-TK8360HU-UHF-450-520-Mhz-128-Ch-40-Watts/123707020571?epid=17030930635&hash=item1ccd83551b:g:MdQAAOSwHN9cmTVt

 

Or neither?

 

Then I need software and cable... would have to figure that out.

[JCase]

I buy my programming cables for all Kenwood radios from this guy “bluemax49ers” on eBay. He’s a HAM who produces excellent quality cables and after you complete your purchase of the cable just send him a message and he will reply back with a link and download of the programming software you need at no charge. His cables are more expensive than most others you can find (avg of $30) but you get a quality cable and both cables and software for all radio models will work flawlessly on Windows 10.

It took me over a year to find this guy and eliminated any concerns from his 100% positive feedback with over 3000 ratings.

I’m not a sales person nor do I receive any compensation by providing the information. I just know how hard it is to find truly respectable sources for this stuff and when I come across seller’s like this guy, I can’t wait to pass it on to others if it saves the headache associated with finding what you need and knowing it was money well spent. Just finished programming my TK-8180K last night. I like the 8180 since it offers 512 programmable channels.

[Jones]

I will throw in a "second" for bluemax49ers cables on Ebay.  https://www.ebay.com/str/bluemax49ers

[berkinet]

I will throw in a "second" for bluemax49ers cables on Ebay.  https://www.ebay.com/str/bluemax49ers

Never hurts to throw in an extra plug, especially for people new to GMRS, or radio in general. And, they have been frequently recommended over the past several years.

[Savage]

Never hurts to throw in an extra plug, especially for people new to GMRS, or radio in general. And, they have been frequently recommended over the past several years.

 

In typical newb fashion, I already bought a radio (TK8360H), cable and the software, but I've now saved this seller for future use.  Appreciate all of the recommendations on this seller.

[berkinet]

In typical newb fashion, I already bought a radio (TK8360H), cable and...

Don’t worry too much. Any cable that works is just fine. There is no such thing as one cable working better than another. However, there are some cables that just plain don’t work. Though, even with them the problem is usually with the USB chip drivers on the PC and not the cables themselves. In general, the cables with FTDI chips seem to me more reliable. The Prolific chips are fine as well. However, unfortunately there are a lot of counterfeit Prolific chips in the market and they won’t work with the standard Prolific drivers. Note that Bluemax49ers sells cables with both chip sets, though the FTDI are usually more expensive.

[1Rocketman]

Hello, I just found this site.  I'm new to GMRS and as I read through various postings, it looks like I have some of the same questions as others.  At some point I'd like to get a ham license, but life keeps getting in the way.....

 

I live in hurricane country, and I'm looking to set up a base station/mobile setup I can use to communicate primarily with family within at least a 10 mile radius in my immediate area during/after a storm (more range would be better).  I have several Midland GXT handhelds that work fine inside my neighborhood, but I'm looking to purchase something more commercial grade.  I'd also like to be able to listen to first responder traffic if possible - because that will help us stay away from areas having issues after a storm.....if that's practical.

 

Some of my family members are not as technical as I am, so I'd also like to identify some handhelds I can get for them that will allow them to get started out of the box, turnkey, if possible.  But they'll need more capability than appear to be provided with these GXTs.  With the holidays coming up, this would be a good time for me to find something for them.

 

I'd rather spend a bit more money up front, and I'd prefer to stay away from the Chinese made stuff if possible.   I'll probably have to do this in stages.

 

I'll keep reading through postings on the forums, in the meantime, thanks for any suggestions.

[mbrun]

Welcome Rocketman.

 

In GMRS, antenna height is king, so your decision on antenna and commitment to get it high will be far more important than your radio choice. How high depends upon your terrain and surroundings. With a well placed external antenna and maybe just a 5w radio HT radio connected to it, you may find that even your GXT handhelds may be able to talk 10 miles simplex back to your home with ease.

 

In my case, the tree density around me limits range to less than 2.5 miles base to mobile (in the directions I need coverage anyway) because I have not yet installed my antenna above the tree line. In the direction where there are few trees blocking, coverage is much better. The fewer the obstacles between one antenna and another the better the range.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

 

Hello, I just found this site. I'm new to GMRS and as I read through various postings, it looks like I have some of the same questions as others. At some point I'd like to get a ham license, but life keeps getting in the way.....

 

I live in hurricane country, and I'm looking to set up a base station/mobile setup I can use to communicate primarily with family within at least a 10 mile radius in my immediate area during/after a storm (more range would be better). I have several Midland GXT handhelds that work fine inside my neighborhood, but I'm looking to purchase something more commercial grade. I'd also like to be able to listen to first responder traffic if possible - because that will help us stay away from areas having issues after a storm.....if that's practical.

 

Some of my family members are not as technical as I am, so I'd also like to identify some handhelds I can get for them that will allow them to get started out of the box, turnkey, if possible. But they'll need more capability than appear to be provided with these GXTs. With the holidays coming up, this would be a good time for me to find something for them.

 

I'd rather spend a bit more money up front, and I'd prefer to stay away from the Chinese made stuff if possible. I'll probably have to do this in stages.

 

I'll keep reading through postings on the forums, in the meantime, thanks for any suggestions.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[1URFE57]

I will throw in a "second" for bluemax49ers cables on Ebay.  https://www.ebay.com/str/bluemax49ers

Been buying all my FTDI chip cables from Bluemax49ers (Mark KJ6ZWL) Quality Cable, Fast shipping and it Works!

[1Rocketman]

Thanks mbrun.    I live in a coastal area, and I'm about 50 ft above sea level. 

 

Tree density/height is likely going to be a problem, and I have a homeowners association to steer clear of as well.  From an antenna perspective (and I'll read through other postings), does it need to be strictly vertical?  Just wondering if there's something I can put in my attic, but now that I think about it, that's a bad idea - I have radiant barrier installed in the attic to help keep heat out (unless I can somehow turn that into one large flat antenna !)

 

I should be able to easily get one at about 15 ft above ground, possibly 20 depending on where I mount it.....thinking of attaching directly to my house vs. on a pole.

 

What's a 'good' base station ?   Based on reading postings here, it seems like quite a few people like Kenwood products.

[gman1971]

Go here,  https://www.ve2dbe.com/rmonline_s.asp, open an account, put the coordinates of your land, radio power, frequency, antenna height, etc... and it will give you a fairly accurate radio coverage map.

 

Personally, I would go with Motorola Maxtracs for UHF GMRS repeater.

 

G.

[mbrun]

Should the antenna be vertical? Yes, it should. This is because the radiation pattern of a typical single-element antenna is 360 degrees around the antenna and that is what is needed in most cases. If it is not vertical, you will have coverage, but it will not be uniform around the antenna at ground level. In fact, it will have strong signal at earth level in only two directions.

 

Some folks have great success with antennas in the attic. Basic GMRS (and UHF antennas in general) can be quite small (less than 24”) so they most certainly are candidates for installation there. It is the higher-gain variety that can be quite large. Attic installation can be workable when you don’t need maximum range. Any obstacle you put between transmitter and receiver will reduce coverage. Good news is that it costs you virtually nothing to test what the end result would be. It eliminates the quests work. Basic antennas are very inexpensive. Buy one and try it.

 

Yes, foil radiant barriers will negatively impact performance. An external antenna will give better results.

 

An antenna such as this is a simple one to install and looks good too.

 

Being that you are in hurricane country, you need an antenna with a high wind rating if you want it to survive outdoors during your time of need. I own a Comet 712EFC. It is rated for 110mph which is more than ok for my area. YMMV.

 

Regards,

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

Thanks mbrun. I live in a coastal area, and I'm about 50 ft above sea level.

 

Tree density/height is likely going to be a problem, and I have a homeowners association to steer clear of as well. From an antenna perspective (and I'll read through other postings), does it need to be strictly vertical? Just wondering if there's something I can put in my attic, but now that I think about it, that's a bad idea - I have radiant barrier installed in the attic to help keep heat out (unless I can somehow turn that into one large flat antenna !)

 

I should be able to easily get one at about 15 ft above ground, possibly 20 depending on where I mount it.....thinking of attaching directly to my house vs. on a pole.

 

What's a 'good' base station ? Based on reading postings here, it seems like quite a few people like Kenwood products.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[berkinet]

An antenna can be either vertical or horizontal. That determines the signal polarity. Both work fine as far as emitting radio waves. However, the transmit and receive and antennas should match in terms of polarity, otherwise you will have reduced reception quality. Since GMRS is commonly used for mobile and portable applications, and those are much easier to setup with vertical antennas, vertically polarized antennas are the norm. However, should you wish to link some fixed locations, horizontal polarization would work just fine, although it is rarely seen in practice.