Which Amateur Transceivers Being Sold Today Still allow Tx on GMRS Frequencies

[mbrun]

I have recently got to wondering whether there has been any reduction in the number of amateur transceiver models coming into the US that allow Tx on GMRS frequencies.

 

The reason I ask this is because of the blog post and associated phone call recording with the FCC (asserted) that I stumbled upon here:

 

https://medium.com/@lucky225/fcc-back-peddles-all-transceivers-capable-of-transmitting-on-frequencies-that-require-40377a3722c5

 

At present I am interpreting the recording to suggest that licensed amateurs are not permitted to use a transceiver that is not type accepted if the transceiver itself is capable of operating on frequencies that require type acceptance. This includes not being allowed to transmit on the amateur frequencies.

 

I cannot vouch for the authenticity of the recording, only the authenticity of my curiosity.

 

If you have purchased a new amateur transceiver since June of 2020 (arbitrary date) and it does in fact have the ability to transmit on GMRS frequencies, what brand and model of radio is it?

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

Note 1: I was originally going to just ask about the UV5 family of radios, but decided to broaden my question.

 

Note 2: My amateur transceiver (purchased August 2020) does not allow Tx on GMRS, it allows Rx-only on GMRS frequencies.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[AdmiralCochrane]

The assertion that there is equipment that licensed hams cannot use to transmit on ham bands within their licensure is just silly lack of reading comprehension by both the FCC and the public.  ARRL has been trying to convince the FCC of this technical mistake in the 2018 advisory about Baofengs for 2 years. 

 

 

Pointless debate will exist forever, much like some of the ATF regulation confusion that has been raging for decades.

[berkinet]

Many UHF radios have hardware options, usually cutting a diode or resister, to allow operation outside of the ham bands. Typically MARS/CAP & GMRS.  If there is a radio you are interested in, just google the radio make & model + "mars cap gmrs"

 

Ex: yaesu ft-60 mars cap gmrs

 

I would not be surprised if some of the CCR mobile "ham radios" work on GMRS right out of the box.

[IronArcher]

I have a few new “ham” radios that tx on GMRS freqs.

One of them needed a button pushed while being powered up, but that’s it.

2 just needed to be programmed.

I have a 4th radio, that one needed the “Mars mod” but that also wasn’t an issue.

 

Ham radios aren’t licensed. If you can build your own, why can’t you buy one. Seems silly, and I think they addressed that... while still leaving some confusion.

 

The way I read it is. Once modified, they lose certification, thus CAN be used by amateur radio operators, but only on the frequencies they have privileges on based on their level of license.

The confusing part is radios “marketed” for GMRS. If you can take a GMRS legal radio, and mid it for use on ham freqs... that might be illegal, but still seems silly.

I guess for hams, it takes a different route.

Because the radios for ham use are not (theoretically) marketed towards GMRS use, they don’t need to be certified for GMRS use in the first place. They still can’t tx on GMRS freqs, but can clearly listen, and can still use their freqs.

 

Example. A ham can buy an Icom 7100. It is not certified for GMRS use. It can be modded for such use, but was never marketed for GMRS use.

A ham can build their own radio that can tx on all sorts of freqs. They just can tx on freqs they don’t have privileges on.

Even with all the double backpedaling, most judges would see this is to vague and confusing to be enforceable.

I would assume it’s probably as high on the list of things the FCC cares about as how many Baofengs are being used on GMRS.

[gortex2]

I dont know of a ham radio that is certified to talk on GMRS. 

 

 

This comes up every few months. I dont understand the desire or misunderstanding in the ham world about being able to do what they want. If a non ham wanted to talk on the ham stuff with there GMRS license the hams would be all in there face. 

[berkinet]

I dont know of a ham radio that is certified to talk on GMRS. 

 

 

This comes up every few months. I dont understand the desire or misunderstanding in the ham world about being able to do what they want. If a non ham wanted to talk on the ham stuff with there GMRS license the hams would be all in there face. 

No ham radios are certified on GMRS. But many will operate just fine in that service.  There are also many hams with GMRS licenses. So, it seems to me that if someone, ham or otherwise has a GMRS license and a radio that works in that band, it’s no different than using some Amazon UHF special.  

 

Sure, there are issues with with “illegally “ modified radios, and non-certified operation in GMRS. But, as long as people have the proper license, the rest is none of my business.

[gortex2]

berknet I understand that fully. I guess I understood the question of radios coming out of the box ready to talk on GMRS. No ham transceiver does. Most offer simple modifications to open up the band to allow this. Its really no different than commercial part 90 radios being able to be used on the GMRS bands. My APX8500 mobile can do it but was not certified to do it. Maybe the op could clarify his question for us.

[mbrun]

To be clear. My question is not at all about what ham radios are certified for use on GMRS. I do not expect to learn any exist.

 

Cutting a jumper, adding a jumper are physical modifications. Installing new “unlocked” firmware is a modification. Pressing button combinations, powering up while some button(s) are pressed and/or adding the frequencies via software are not modifications.

 

My question relates to which ones still being sold today are still infact capable of transmitting on GMRS (without any modifications to the radio). I am just gauge how manufacturers are reacting to and interpreting current FCC certification rules.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

[WRKC935]

OK, this has been a sticking point for a number of years with me.  And I have had several discussions with both other ham operators and FCC field agents and attorneys pertaining to this and here is what I have come to know.

The commercially available ham radios do not transmit outside of the FCC allocated ham bands.  Not in GMRS, commercial bands or anywhere else.  Yes, they can be modified, but you are not suppose to do that unless you have a MARS / CAP license and are ONLY operating them in those allocated frequency bands.  Here's the reason.  A part 90 commercial radio, in the specific regulations that dictate what a part 90 radio can and can not do. First one is a VFO.  Second is field user programming.  These are both BIG no no's for a commercial radio.  And the reasons are obvious if you think about it.  If you could dial the radio around you have the ability to interfere with public safety communications.  Which leads into the second thing I found out.  The statements in the amateur radio regulations indicate that you can in an emergency use "ANY" means of communications at your disposal to communicate said emergency.  Now, the hams think this means cut the TX block on their Kenwood and dial up the PO PO.  It doesn't mean that, and never did mean that.  What it DOES mean is that if you are a NOVICE operator and have a 2 meter radio and no privilege on 2 meters due to your license, you CAN use 2 meters to contact another station to convey your emergency.  Or if you are a Novice / Tech license holder and you hear a station on a part of the HF band that is outside of your allocated frequencies, you can contact that station to convey the emergency.  It don't mean you can talk to the po po.  And that stands for GMRS as well. The radios are pretty much a commercial radio.  Meaning it's LOCKED to the programming that it has in it. NO VFO.  Now, we have some other regs that limit power on certain frequencies that we are allowed on.  And some FRS freqs that due to having removable antennas we can't use with a radio that has a removable antenna. 

 

All that being said.

Using ANY radio on ham bands is gonna be ok for the most part.  While there is a type acceptance for ham radio commercially sold radios that keep them from doing certain things.  Taking a commercial radio and programming it for the ham bands is acceptable in all cases as long as it's operated within the other limitations of the ham regulations.  Of course, since narrow banding getting radios to operate on the 5Khz wide modulation scheme is gotten tougher but it's doable. 

The biggest thing is keeping ham radios off the commercial allocation.  They simply don't need to be there, and there is NEVER a reason for it.  MARS / CAP is the only reason, and it's ONLY for that.... not talking to the po po "Just in case".  So if your CDM or HT 1250 that you use on GMRS has some ham channels in it.... it's fine.  But if you cut the TX block out of your Icom hammie radio, that's a no no. 

 

 

And as  a side note,,, for those that missed it.  The FCC part 90 licensed CCR's are NOT legal on the part 90 allocation.  Reason is that you have the ability to program it with a VFO,  And it is easily, without software, programmable from the front panel.  Sure, you can turn that all off in programming, but since it's there, it negates the legality of the radio.

[mainehazmt]

This comes up ALL the time.  IMO nobody can tell what radio you are using when you use it.  Be it a 30$ CCR. Or 700$ vertex.  Unless you are bragging about it.  To think if someone is licensed in 2 or 3 radio services that you would have 3 different radios that can all do the same thing doesn’t pass the straight face test.  Plus enforcement....big joke.  Before you get anybody showing up at your door step you would have had to do something serious!    Follow your heart do what you think is right and keep your mouth shut. Make sure your transmissions are clean and “Follow” the rules.