Legal radio

[Chris129]

I was offered a Kenwood NX-820-HG commercial radio. How can I find out if its legal for GMRS? It would need GMRS reprogramming. Thanks

[mbrun]

If you can obtain the FCC ID that is required to be on radio near the serial number, you can look that ID up on the FCC website to see what it is certified for.

 

According to my local Kenwood rep (about 3-weeks ago) they no longer manufacturer a radio certified for GMRS. But I understand they used to.

 

Although not technical legal, many folks prefer to use the high-quality more costly Part 90 certified radios as opposed to the lesser cost and quality ‘legal’ part 95e or 95a certified radios.

 

I am sure one of the kenwood users on this forum will chime in.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

[Chris129]

Thanks for your help.

[MacJack]

Welcome to the forum and asking a great question... as a fellow newbie back in Nov 2020... I took the Part 95 certified radios to make my $80 purchase handheld from CCP as a starter radio and has been great...  

 

One thing I learned is my handheld is 25MHz bandwidth and sound is great... I'm not the tech guy.   I can not remember if it was Kenwood or maybe Midland did half the bandwidth...  Someone will help me remember...

Jack

[Chris129]

If I read it right, the Kenwood is only part 90.

[Lscott]

Some of the old Kenwood radios are Part 95 certified. I have the TK-370G-1, TK-3170-K and the TK-3140. All 128 channel UHF radios. While the official lower frequency range is 450MHz on the ones useful for GMRS I’ve used them down to 440MHz or so making them usable on the simplex and repeater section of the Ham 70cm band if that’s of any interest.

[WRAK968]

Ok, pulled two UHF ID's, Both have a GC of K44, The first is 431200 and the second is 431201. Both have certification for part 22, 74, and 90. While it is not part 95E certified, as long as you do not run digital or encryption and you keep the power levels within legal limits you should be fine to use this radio.

[Lscott]

Some of the Kenwood NX series radios will do both analog and digital. The digital part is NXDN, mostly used by railroads with smaller number used by businesses. A few areas in the US see some use of NXDN on the Ham bands. Note that any type of digital voice on GMRS is prohibited by the FCC so only the analog part is of any use.

 

I picked up a Kenwood NX-340U, analog/NXDN, real cheap off of eBay but haven’t done much with it yet.

 

Also got a Kenwood TK-D340 as well that does analog/DMR.

[Lscott]

I was offered a Kenwood NX-820-HG commercial radio. How can I find out if its legal for GMRS? It would need GMRS reprogramming. Thanks

If you do go ahead and take the radio you can find the documentation at the link below.

 

http://manuals.repeater-builder.com/Kenwood/kenwood.html

 

You'll have to scroll down a ways to find it. Look for file names like this for example:

 

nx/NX-820/NX-820H(G) Revised_B53-7033-10.pdf

 

I believe the programming software you need is KPG-141D. You would like to get the most recent version.

 

Download a copy here:

 

http://leon880314.com/software-de-programacion-para-radio-kenwood-kpg-141d/

 

https://hamfiles.co.uk/index.php?page=downloads&type=entry&id=radio-programming%2Fkpg-141-d-prpgramming_2

 

Or you can buy it from a place like this:

 

https://www.ameradio.com/product/100727/description.html

[gman1971]

Pretty badass radio... its a Part 90 radio. Just keep it and use it for GMRS. It will serve you well... certainly a great starter radio over the CCR garbage.

 

G.

[jerrym58]

I have several Kenwood TK-840 radios that are FCC certified for GMRS but they can be a real pain to program, depending on how new your computer is.  I also have a ham license and usually want to do ham and GMRS on the same radio for convenience and the TK-840 allows me to do this legally.  However, I don't lose any sleep over using a non-GMRS certified radio on GMRS.  For example, I frequently use Motorola Part 90 radios on GMRS.  I do however make sure I am following the FCC rules in all other aspects.  The FCC reacts to complaints.  Don't give anyone a reason to complain to the FCC about you and you will be fine using a non-certified radio.  

[MacJack]

I like where you are coming from... as a ham, I want a radio to do GMRS/Ham and want to look at doing DMR on the Ham side... So what Motorola would you suggest.

MacJack

[MichaelLAX]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:27 PM, MacJack said:

I like where you are coming from... as a ham, I want a radio to do GMRS/Ham and want to look at doing DMR on the Ham side... So what Motorola would you suggest.

MacJack

So far the only radio I have come across that will work Ham 2 meters, 70 cm and GMRS is the Anytone AT-779UV a/k/a Radioddity DB-20G.

Amazon has the Anytone for $99 and the Radioddity for $129.

I have the Anytone in my car as my first ever mobile radio and I am really enjoying being able to scan all my favorite repeaters on all 3 bands at once and jump into a conversation, as desired.

It operates so efficiently in the shack connected to my rooftop Comet tri-band vertical that I am thinking about buying another one for the shack.  It is hitting repeaters on 2 meters and 70 cm that I am unable to hit with my Yaesu FT-857d, when connected to the same Comet!

Anytone also makes the AT-D578UVIIIPRO mobile, which is 2 meters/70 cm and DMR, but I have no experience trying it out on GMRS.

[MacJack]

Thanks for the info...

[WRNA236]

[deleted]

[MichaelLAX]

5 hours ago, WRNA236 said:

The AT-D578UV does not carry a Part 95 grant and thus does not meet the "legal" part of the question about GMRS.  The AT-779UV can only transmit on GMRS as delivered.  The firmware can be I think unlocked to transmit anywhere on VHF and UHF but that would void its Part 95 grant, again no longer meeting the "legal" part of the question.

You are mistaken, the AT-779UV does not require any firmware change that would void its Part 95 certification.

The ability to transmit on 2 meters and 70 cm is included as an option in the CPS software provided by AnyTone, or easily through a keyboard shortcut that does not require any computer.

AnyTone is clearly aware of this capability because they provided for it and I can only conclude that the FCC was aware of this capability, as well. when they gave Part 95 certification.

Perhaps the FCC's definition of "modification" is different that yours, but in any case, theirs takes precedence!

[jwilkers]

the FCC was aware of this capability, as well. when they gave Part 95 certification.
Perhaps the FCC's definition of "modification" is different that yours, but in any case, theirs takes precedence!

The FCC actually doesn't assign the fcc ID. The lab that tests for compliance to fcc standards does. The fcc never sees the product.. There have been cases where the fcc has been made aware of compliance issues and has later pulled a radio's certification.

Sent from my SM-A125U using Tapatalk

[MichaelLAX]

I like my radio and its FCC ID 

[WRNA236]

[deleted]

[MichaelLAX]

49 minutes ago, WRNA236 said:

In this case the Part 95E rules written in 2017 are specific that a radio that can transmit on amateur bands cannot receive a GMRS FCC ID.  So if Anytone is giving you software that can do this they risk their acceptance and put the owner at risk of violation.  

It appears that the FCC takes a contrary view on the opposite situation, as is presented here: that a radio that can transmit on GMRS channels that is granted an FCC ID, can continue to have its FCC ID if the ability to transmit on amateur bands comes afterwards, as was presented to the FCC. The ability to use the amateur bands functionality was certainly not hidden if anyone took the time to review the Anytone software.

And why not? A carefully engineered radio for GMRS that can also, after the fact, be used for 2 meters and 70 cm, does not present any regulatory problems in its continued use for GMRS.

I will just have to accept that position, as I paid my money, I am a licensed Ham and GMRS user, and I am using my radio.

And given that this is a sharing hobby, I am happy to share that useful information with others too!

[WRNA236]

[deleted]

[MichaelLAX]

8 minutes ago, WRNA236 said:

Cite where the FCC take a contrary view because what they've made public would not imply they mean anything other than what the rules says.  ...However, we are amending the language in new section 95.1761(c) to clarify the requirement in old section 95.655(a) that Part 95 GMRS radios will not be certified if they are equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. "

 

You will have to ask the FCC your question.

Perhaps that is why the debate is never ending...

[WRNA236]

2 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:

I'm afraid you will have to ask the FCC your question.

Perhaps that is why the debate is never ending...

Someone DID ask the FCC OET and that was their response.  The debate is never ending because it wasn't the desired answer to the question.

[MichaelLAX]

The Baofengs were never FCC Type certified to begin with, so your example is not relevant.

The debate continues, because we are now faced with a radio WITH FCC Type certification for GMRS.

[WRNA236]

[deleted]

[MichaelLAX]

The Baofengs were never FCC Type certified for GRMS to begin with, so your example is not relevant.

Did you REALLY not understand that was what I was saying, so as to make me repeat myself needlessly?