GMRS Real World Emergency Communication Experience?

[Lscott]

I see posts where people buy a radio(s) to use in an "emergency". How many people have REALLY used their radio in an emergency, not some simulated drill? What was the experience like? Were the preparations made before hand sufficient? What would you have done differently after the experience and lessons learned? 

I think the above are the only real relevant questions.  Simply buying a radio and keeping it in the draw with some battery packs until the SHTF doesn't really cut it I suspect. I'll take real experience over some hypothetical situation or simulated condition.

[marcspaz]

Fantastic Thread!  I am looking forward to seeing the responses.  I have real-world experience with an emergency situation that radio saved lives... but not in GMRS.  It should be interesting to see who has had some experience. 

[SteveShannon]

Great topic. I didn’t buy my radio for emergency use, and I use it monthly to talk to others in my rocket club while searching for rockets, but if some emergency were to happen, I have no idea which frequencies to monitor in my area, or the right way to respond in case I hear an emergency message. I would not want my blundering to make a situation worse. 

[Lscott]

19 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

Fantastic Thread!  I am looking forward to seeing the responses.  I have real-world experience with an emergency situation that radio saved lives... but not in GMRS.  It should be interesting to see who has had some experience. 

Even that experience would be welcomed. I'll bet there is a carry over between different services that would be a lesson for all to learn from.

[Lscott]

3 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Great topic. I didn’t buy my radio for emergency use, and I use it monthly to talk to others in my rocket club while searching for rockets, but if some emergency were to happen, I have no idea which frequencies to monitor in my area, or the right way to respond in case I hear an emergency message. I would not want my blundering to make a situation worse. 

Yup. Considering the crazy weather in the southeast right now for some it's more than a "theoretical exorcise" at the moment.

[PACNWComms]

I know of several instances where FRS/GMRS radios helped find lost hikers/campers in the Olympic National Forest in Washington State. This is a large rural area, but there are also Coast Guard stations in Port Angeles and Neah Bay, with listening stations that monitor for radio traffic. Other government entities and oil response requirements meant that remote monitoring gear be placed around the coastline. Response to hikers calling on FRS channel 1 became so common that the helo pilots and search and rescue began to carry Garmin Rino GPS/radios. There are lots of calls for people running out of fuel or getting lost in the forest that gets called in via FRS channel 1, as cell phone coverage is spotty. My own case was a little different.

While working for the oil industry, I needed to place a portable repeater at the lighthouse at Dungeness Spit, which is only accessible at low tide with an off road or at least larger truck/SUV or from the water for a future on-water drill. I left the Port Angeles pier on a 9 meter RHIB (rigid hull inflatable boat), which eventually got swamped near the spit. All of our corporate radios, Motorola PR1500's got wet, or went overboard. As did the handheld GPS. These RHIB's had very old Furuno VHF Marine radios and when attempts were made to contact the Coast Guard, the battery went dead. Then the engine died. The tide started to take us away from shore. The only thing that worked was using FRS channel 1 on a Garmin Rino 120 (this was about 2005 time frame). Coast Guard coordinated a tow, and had my location via the Rino GPS sending my updated location. It only made the local news, as a line item for assistance for the Coast Guard station, but made changes to the RHIB maintenance schedule. Newer radios, a mounted GPS, more batteries and water resistance connections were made to the RHIB. More people were given chest holsters for the PR1500 radios. Some additional Rino radios were bought as a backup for each RHIB, each crew had at least one. As of 2018 the Coast Guard and local Search and Rescue still carried a versions of Garmin Rino, monitoring channel 1. 

I know many people do indeed think that they just need to buy something and then never use it. They may even get it out and turn it on, but then do not use it, or take it with them. However, I also know many other cases where it is recommended that people have at least an FRS radio (post 2017 and the whole FRS/GMRS changes being made). Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) in my area recommends the purchase of a compatible radio and then trains with it. As for use in an emergency, in the United States, I have experienced many more incidents on the inland waterways and open ocean where radios have been used, but this is marine VHF and GMDSS systems. Satellite phones and tethered satellite beacons/trackers seem to be more common now, in my rural part of the Pacific Northwest. But, i still see lots of Motorola TalkAbout radios and various models of Baofeng's with who knows what in them. 

[marcspaz]

48 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Even that experience would be welcomed. I'll bet there is a carry over between different services that would be a lesson for all to learn from.

 

 

I used to have a small boat that was big enough to go out into the Gulf on calm days.  I took some friends out to a desert sandbar to party... most of them had there own boats.  After partying all night, everyone split and left a huge mess on the sandbar.  I stayed behind until morning and cleaned the place up.  Two friends stayed with me and were going to ride back with me.

 

Well, when we were done, my boat would start, but it would only idle.  When I tried to put it under power, it would chatter really bad and sputter out.  My friends and I where now stuck on a sandbar about 3 acres long and 1 wide, 20 miles out in the gulf.  We had no clothes but the bathing suites we were wearing.  No food, no water, no shelter, no clothes... just leftover booze and firewood.

 

We were trying to call someone on marine radio for 2 days.  Finally, some random dude who was out fishing heard my call and came to our coordinates.  He was so hammered he could barely talk.  He refused to tow us back and refused to give us a ride back.  Being that he was the only person to respond to us in 2 days, I asked if he knew how to fix engines.  He said yes and asked for $100 to look at it.  I told the guy (again, was very drunk) that I didn't have any cash, just a few bottles of Rum and Vodka.  So, he took the booze on trade and got my engine working long enough for us to get into the bay and idle back to my house.

 

We were all very sick from dehydration and really bad sun poisoning.  If it wasn't for the radio, the 3 of us would have died out on that sandbar.

 

This is the very reason I switched to HF for emergency communications.  We could have had help in minutes instead of days.

[Lscott]

32 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

We were all very sick from dehydration and really bad sun poisoning.  If it wasn't for the radio, the 3 of us would have died out on that sandbar.

 

This is the very reason I switched to HF for emergency communications.  We could have had help in minutes instead of days.

Wow!! You sure were lucky to get back!! I can't image if some foul weather blew in while you were out there what the end result would have been.

[marcspaz]

34 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Wow!! You sure were lucky to get back!! I can't image if some foul weather blew in while you were out there what the end result would have been.

 

No doubt.  There is (or at least used to be) only about 5 foot of elevation change between the water line at high tide and the high spot on the sandbar.  With zero shelter, 6 foot swells would have put the sandbar underwater and us in a dead-stick boat out in the Gulf of Mexico.  There is very little chance we would have survived that.

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, marcspaz said:

 

No doubt.  There is (or at least used to be) only about 5 foot of elevation change between the water line at high tide and the high spot on the sandbar.  With zero shelter, 6 foot swells would have put the sandbar underwater and us in a dead-stick boat out in the Gulf of Mexico.  There is very little chance we would have survived that.

What was the marine radio you had on the boat? And what was the antenna setup like?

[WRHS218]

I have shared this before, but, we had an unexpected power outage in our area. Normally when that happens (last year it was frequently) we call or text family that lives 3.7 miles from us. That day the cell phone system was either over loaded or down. We were able to contact our family via GMRS radios we had purchased for them. The power was only out for 3 or 4 hours IIRC and lives were not threatened, this time, but it was a real world experience. Having a plan, the tools, and the ability to use them builds confidence for those times when there is an emergency.

Sean

[marcspaz]

@Lscott do you remember the old white Midland marine radio with the old channel numbers fixed and a click dial?  I don't remember the model.  This was in 1985.  My grandfather gave it to me because I had no radio, and he had to have had it for close to a decade.

I also had a 7/8 wave vertical antenna mounted on the back right corner. 

 

EDIT:  Now that I think about it, it may not have been a Midland...  It may have been a Motorola or a Standard.  It was a very long time ago.

[Lscott]

31 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

@Lscott do you remember the old white Midland marine radio with the old channel numbers fixed and a click dial?  I don't remember the model.  This was in 1985.  My grandfather gave it to me because I had no radio, and he had to have had it for close to a decade.

I also had a 7/8 wave vertical antenna mounted on the back right corner. 

I’m not familiar with that one. It sounds like it looked similar to an old CB radio. At least the radio didn’t die on you when you needed it the most. I guess that’s one main point about the experience. 

[marcspaz]

It reminded me of an old CB, too.  There was just a channel dial, volume/on/off and a squelch.  White plastic body and the face where the controls were had a slight angle so it was easy to see the channel selector while standing at the wheel. 

I am very glad I had the radio and my grandfather taught me how to use and maintain it.  On an open vessel on salt water, there is a lot of different maintenance needed. compared to a land mobile or base station.

[WROZ437]

As a newb I think this is a pretty useful thread. I think this issue highlights the need to agree upon a frequency/channel to be used in an emergency. Sounds like FRS channel 1 might catch some attention depending on where you are. That leads to another issue, though. The higher powered mobile GMRS radios often times don't have the FRS channels available for transmit. If you were stranded in a vehicle with only a mobile, what would be your best chance of getting attention?

[Lscott]

4 minutes ago, WROZ437 said:

As a newb I think this is a pretty useful thread. I think this issue highlights the need to agree upon a frequency/channel to be used in an emergency. Sounds like FRS channel 1 might catch some attention depending on where you are. That leads to another issue, though. The higher powered mobile GMRS radios often times don't have the FRS channels available for transmit. If you were stranded in a vehicle with only a mobile, what would be your best chance of getting attention?

As long as the cell network is up and functional that would likely be your first bet to try. You likely have all your important numbers stored in your smart phone and just about everyone has one.

After that it could be a number of different radio services. Ham. FRS. GMRS. MURS. CB radio.

If your going to depend on radio to stay in-touch with friends and family I would recommend you have a plan worked out on what channels/frequency to use and when to use them, like a specific time. The time element would be important for handheld radios. The battery packs don't last forever. So if everyone agrees to monitor the prearranged frequency/channel at, lets say a quarter past the hour every hour, within a period of 10 minutes before and after the scheduled time it save battery capacity. You're not calling at times when nobody is likely to be monitoring.

[SteveShannon]

11 minutes ago, WROZ437 said:

As a newb I think this is a pretty useful thread. I think this issue highlights the need to agree upon a frequency/channel to be used in an emergency. Sounds like FRS channel 1 might catch some attention depending on where you are. That leads to another issue, though. The higher powered mobile GMRS radios often times don't have the FRS channels available for transmit. If you were stranded in a vehicle with only a mobile, what would be your best chance of getting attention?

Use the official unofficial Road Channel, Channel 19 (unless you live in or north of Seattle where it’s prohibited) or 20 which Wikipedia says is the official Road Channel.

Maybe channel 9, to honor the old REACT channel (as I recall).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Emergency_Associated_Communication_Teams

[PACNWComms]

Before the 2017 FRS/GMRS radio changes, there was a push to use FRS Channel 1 as a calling/emergency channel by many, old RadioReference forum threads mention this, and along the Washington northwest coastline, there was some traction on this. Especially when my situation took place. Another aspect in my case was the merchant marine community, and the use of radio silence clocks. This helped preserve the battery in my Garmin Rino, and a remote listening station with direction finding capability provided a vector. The helo flew that vector and when my Rino was in range of their Rino radio (Search and Rescue had a lot of them), my location began to show up on their map display. Attached is a screen shot f a radio silence clock, and description.....many of these of different look and manufacture are on board vessels used in commercial shipping and Coast Guard vessels.

[Citizen]

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

After that it could be a number of different radio services. Ham. FRS. GMRS. MURS. CB radio.

If your going to depend on radio to stay in-touch with friends and family I would recommend you have a plan worked out on what channels/frequency to use and when to use them, like a specific time. The time element would be important for handheld radios. The battery packs don't last forever. So if everyone agrees to monitor the prearranged frequency/channel at, lets say a quarter past the hour every hour, within a period of 10 minutes before and after the scheduled time it save battery capacity. You're not calling at times when nobody is likely to be monitoring.

 

3 hours ago, WROZ437 said:

...highlights the need to agree upon a frequency/channel to be used in an emergency. Sounds like FRS channel 1 might catch some attention depending on where you are. That leads to another issue, though. The higher powered mobile GMRS radios often times don't have the FRS channels available for transmit.

 

2 hours ago, Sshannon said:

Use the official unofficial Road Channel, Channel 19  or 20 which Wikipedia says is the official Road Channel.

Maybe channel 9, to honor the old REACT channel (as I recall).

1 hour ago, PACNWComms said:

Before the 2017 FRS/GMRS radio changes, there was a push to use FRS Channel 1 as a calling/emergency channel by many, old RadioReference forum threads mention this, and along the Washington northwest coastline, there was some traction on this. Especially when my situation took place. Another aspect in my case was the merchant marine community, and the use of radio silence clocks. This helped preserve the battery ...

 

 

This is a very good thread, and well worth our time, so I'll add my comments.

There has been for some time now something called the 3-3-3 Plan, which in an emergency situation, everyone who agrees adheres to.  Basically it advocates turning on your emergency radio for 3 minutes, every three hours, on channel-3.  More info can be found here: https://radiofreeq.wordpress.com/2013/07/15/3-3-3-radio-plan-for-shtf-communications/

It's a more detailed read, so here is an excerpt of the best benefits of the plan:

1. Easy for everyone to remember the “Rule of Three”.
2. Conserves precious battery life for walkie talkies.
3. Gets everyone on the air at the same time.
4. Sets a schedule of 8 times per day to call each other.
5. Avoids impractical hourly schedules that can be a burden in real-life scenarios.
6. Enables the use of short transmissions for optimum success and security.
7. Three hours between contacts is enough time to rest in a survival situation.
8. A person can walk 8 miles in 3 hours, the practical distance limit of handheld radios over average terrain.
9. 3-3-3 is fully interoperable and compatible with the alternative 3-2-1 plan.

"Channel 3 is CB-3, FRS-3, or MURS-3.  CB, FRS, and MURS are the most common types of radios used by survivalists and preppers."  FRS-3 is the same frequency as GMRS-3, so is available on GMRS radios.  Could also include Marine-3.  The site also mentions Ham national call freqs, since Ham doesn't have channel numbers. 

In summary, I think there is no need for us to reinvent the wheel trying to decide to use FRS-1, or GRMS-19 or 20, or CB-19, or whatever.  If everyone agreed to the 3-3-3 plan, there would no need for all the back-and-forth discussion about what to do on what service and on what channel.  Agreeing to this 3-3-3 emergency plan does not negate, promote or interfere with the GMRS channel 19 or 20 travel channel debate, IMO.

Thomas

...

[WROZ437]

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

As long as the cell network is up and functional that would likely be your first bet to try. You likely have all your important numbers stored in your smart phone and just about everyone has one.

After that it could be a number of different radio services. Ham. FRS. GMRS. MURS. CB radio.

If your going to depend on radio to stay in-touch with friends and family I would recommend you have a plan worked out on what channels/frequency to use and when to use them, like a specific time. The time element would be important for handheld radios. The battery packs don't last forever. So if everyone agrees to monitor the prearranged frequency/channel at, lets say a quarter past the hour every hour, within a period of 10 minutes before and after the scheduled time it save battery capacity. You're not calling at times when nobody is likely to be monitoring.

 

I appreciate your reply but I thought this thread was more along the lines of when cell service or other means of communication are not available. Obviously you know the beauty of two way radio is that it doesn't rely on service providers or other infrastructure to work. 

 

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, PACNWComms said:

Before the 2017 FRS/GMRS radio changes, there was a push to use FRS Channel 1 as a calling/emergency channel by many, old RadioReference forum threads mention this, and along the Washington northwest coastline, there was some traction on this. Especially when my situation took place. Another aspect in my case was the merchant marine community, and the use of radio silence clocks. This helped preserve the battery in my Garmin Rino, and a remote listening station with direction finding capability provided a vector. The helo flew that vector and when my Rino was in range of their Rino radio (Search and Rescue had a lot of them), my location began to show up on their map display. Attached is a screen shot f a radio silence clock, and description.....many of these of different look and manufacture are on board vessels used in commercial shipping and Coast Guard vessels.

Interesting. I was totally unaware that such a thing existed, radio silence periods. Thanks.

[PACNWComms]

My only issue with the 3-3-3 plan is that it, like the push for FRS Channel 1 proposal is not regulation or procedure. Both are just suggestions, and whom determines which is better or more useful, the end users and those that wish to participate in that plan. The plan that goes by three has become popular due to the three percenters, which may turn off some people if they understand the political push and influence. There is no regulation or rule driving it, which was what ended the push for FRS Channel 1 a decade earlier. The reason radio silent clocks exist is due to maritime regulation, which has a historical precedence, but does not necessarily apply to FRS/GMRS/MURS. Having a plan is better than not having one, as long as there is agreement to which plan to use.

If you end up on the Oregon or Washington coastline (I do not know if all of California followed suit, but Crescent City, CA and Brookings, Oregon have an agreement), maritime precedent applies with the Coast Guard (radio silent clock method). The listening posts equipped with radio direction finding equipment expanded capabilities as the infrastructure was developed for maritime use, but added spectrum bands as software defined multi-band receiving equipment was installed at the sites.

[Lscott]

2 minutes ago, WROZ437 said:

 

I appreciate your reply but I thought this thread was more along the lines of when cell service or other means of communication are not available. Obviously you know the beauty of two way radio is that it doesn't rely on service providers or other infrastructure to work. 

 

True. The thread is getting away from the original goal. I think what is valuable is what people really did during an emergency that worked or didn't work. I specifically mentioned GMRS but it doesn't have to be strictly about it. I put it in the header since this is primary a GMRS forum so I figured it's more likely people will have experiences to share and recommendations on what if anything they would do different next time around.

Cell service may not always be available so using a two-way radio is the next best option. However I don't want to give people the idea if cell service is working to ignore it in preference to using their radio. We have to be practical.

For example Marc's story about be stranded 20 miles out at sea on a sand bar with a dead boat. It's fortunate he made a contact on his marine radio and got help. But lets say he had a sat-phone. He could have had help likely in a few hours.

[PACNWComms]

10 minutes ago, Lscott said:

But lets say he had a sat-phone.

I currently use two personal satellite phones, a Globalstar and an Iridium, two different networks, as I am still active in the maritime community, even though I administer land based radios networks now. Satellite phones and beacons that tether to cellular phones are a lot cheaper, reliable, and available now. If you live or frequent areas that lack cell phone coverage, I highly recommend them. This could be vast areas of desert or maritime use.....I go through and to both. Radio and satellite is the only thing that works in many cases. One of my pictures in the gallery shows some of my UHF satellite equipment, when I expect to spend some time out in the middle of nowhere. Much of the rural united States even lacks adequate first response radio coverage, in which case some fedgov equipment may be the only thing that "hears" your cries for help.

[gortex2]

I would not rely on GMRS for an emergency. Even in all my years of SAR FRS/GMRS has never helped us. For my work I carry a Garmin Inreach + Its $15 a month for piece of mind.