GMRS Simplex Network

[WRPP686]

I didn't want to hijack Doctnj thread on GMRS and Radio Clubs but after reading it there is another topic that keeps coming across my mind. Many many people are getting in to GMRS in conjunction with their prepping efforts for grid down communications. I think it is really becoming very popular across the nation as repeater networks and clubs continue to pop up. My concern is that in a true grid down situation many of the repeaters may not function. I am sure there are many people with backup radios in their Faraday cages and these may be the only radios that work when the grid goes down.

I think there is a good argument to establish a simplex network. The purpose would be to enable a message to be passed long distances. A prime example for me would be for me to be able to pass a message from Central Florida to Northern Alabama. If there were no national linked repeaters it would have to make many hops to cover that distance. However, if there were an established protocol for a geographical network of GMRS users to do such a thing, I think it possible.

Have exercises just like the linked regional nets. So users know who is geographically within reach of them so they could propagate a message in the correct direction. 

This may be a pipe dream, but in a grid down world it could invaluable. I am new to the community so maybe there is already something in place.

What do you all think? 

[Sshannon]

A friend of mine, also a ham, was telling me just today about a simplex net in the two meter band in the Seattle area.  So, it happens.  There’s no reason it couldn’t be done with GMRS, but without tall towers and high antennas, it might be a lot of half mile hops where the message gets relayed Ike the old game of gossip.

[WRPP686]

Yes, like the old school experiment where a message gets passed around the class room and is nothing like the original when it reaches the end. However, if the original message was limited to a certain number of characters, like 20 or 30 and the protocol was to verify message with the sender then it could work. 

[WyoJoe]

This kind of reminds me of the grapevine in the movie Johnny Dangerously:

 

In all seriousness, though, I think this type of communication would be better handled on ham radio, as you could get much longer "hops" than with GMRS.

[Riktar]

Fascinating idea! It would definitely take some advanced planning to make it practical.

I think the 1/2 mile hops that were mentioned earlier were in reference to people using bubble pack HT's.

My experience has shown 4 (Suburban) - 12 (Rural) mile simplex range between my base (TK-8180) and my mobile (TK-8180H) radios.

Now this has been achieved by listening to all the advice and experience of this forum's members as well as doing A LOT of reading on the subject.

Anyone in SE Wisconsin care to try setting something like this up?   

[Sshannon]

1 hour ago, Riktar said:

Fascinating idea! It would definitely take some advanced planning to make it practical.

I think the 1/2 mile hops that were mentioned earlier were in reference to people using bubble pack HT's.

My experience has shown 4 (Suburban) - 12 (Rural) mile simplex range between my base (TK-8180) and my mobile (TK-8180H) radios.

Now this has been achieved by listening to all the advice and experience of this forum's members as well as doing A LOT of reading on the subject.

Anyone in SE Wisconsin care to try setting something like this up?   

The half mile hop reference was not aimed so much at bubble pack handhelds as worst case urban conditions or even valley to adjacent valley in hilly terrain. As you correctly point out it’s possible to achieve much greater distances by planning.

[Lscott]

On 4/10/2022 at 8:15 PM, WRPP686 said:

I didn't want to hijack Doctnj thread on GMRS and Radio Clubs but after reading it there is another topic that keeps coming across my mind. Many many people are getting in to GMRS in conjunction with their prepping efforts for grid down communications. I think it is really becoming very popular across the nation as repeater networks and clubs continue to pop up. My concern is that in a true grid down situation many of the repeaters may not function. I am sure there are many people with backup radios in their Faraday cages and these may be the only radios that work when the grid goes down.

I think there is a good argument to establish a simplex network. The purpose would be to enable a message to be passed long distances. A prime example for me would be for me to be able to pass a message from Central Florida to Northern Alabama. If there were no national linked repeaters it would have to make many hops to cover that distance. However, if there were an established protocol for a geographical network of GMRS users to do such a thing, I think it possible.

Have exercises just like the linked regional nets. So users know who is geographically within reach of them so they could propagate a message in the correct direction. 

This may be a pipe dream, but in a grid down world it could invaluable. I am new to the community so maybe there is already something in place.

What do you all think? 

http://arrl.net/

ARRL -> Amateur Radio Relay League

That's how it was done in the very old days of spark gap transmitters that had very limited range. Messages were relayed from station to station across the country. What is old is now new again. It continues to be done as a message passing protocol. The key is getting a system where the format is consistent and EVERYONE uses the same procedures to pass message traffic. Otherwise it ends up being nothing but a mess.

[WRPP686]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:13 AM, Riktar said:

Fascinating idea! It would definitely take some advanced planning to make it practical.

I think the 1/2 mile hops that were mentioned earlier were in reference to people using bubble pack HT's.

My experience has shown 4 (Suburban) - 12 (Rural) mile simplex range between my base (TK-8180) and my mobile (TK-8180H) radios.

Now this has been achieved by listening to all the advice and experience of this forum's members as well as doing A LOT of reading on the subject.

Anyone in SE Wisconsin care to try setting something like this up?   

I have a base antenna at 55 feet and a 50 watt radio, being in Florida I can reach out around 50 miles that I know of, maybe more, but have not received replies from further out.

It would be awesome if there were a MAP of users like the NET MAP that showed users that connected with other users so you could actually see a potential path between the start and end points of a message.

[axorlov]

Should the unthinkable happen, when only radios stored in faraday cages will keep working, good luck (lol!) with simplex mesh network. Look, I for one, if happen to be alive and with radios working, will not be bothered by relaying somebody's messages across the land. Big fat NO. I will have other matters on hand, more pressing.

From Central Florida to Alabama, is it like 500 miles? Get ham ticket, press your other party to get a ham ticket, 80m NVIS will likely cover your needs. Buy equipment, train for the event. And if 80m won't do it (but why not?) then, 20/40m will do it for sure. Have a plan, have a schedule, have batteries. Ham exam is much easier than organizing mesh network.