Dedicated Scanner for the Vehicle?

[tep182]

Forgive me if there is a thread for this, I couldn't find it.

Is there a Baofeng-equivalent, affordable scanner option designed for vehicles?

Multi-band, to pick up whatever is out there... it's often more entertaining than whatever is programmed on the commercial stations.

[Lscott]

You can buy a “cheap” Chinese Radio, CCR, and program it for receive only. Typically the transmit function is disabled by leaving the field for the transmit frequency empty. They come lock to the Ham bands for transmitting, receive isn’t a problem. There is a very simple way to change that using an undocumented command in the programming software and password.

I’ve been using a cheap TYT TH-350 tri-band radio as a scanner in the house to monitor local communications. I think it works better than the BTECH model and costs about the same.

http://www.randl.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=370&products_id=74359
 

The programming software works reasonably well.

[wayoverthere]

I have a baofeng uv5r (older, unrestricted) that we use as a scanner, though admittedly it doesn't scan quickly. That said, we only have maybe 8-10 channels programmed. Chirp had checkboxes on the settings tab to disable tx.

For my LMR stuff, I used weird splits to dump any unintended key-ups on either gmrs ch 1 (which is just mess of kids kerchunking and pounding the call button on bubble pack radios here) or one of the murs channels.

[gortex2]

The baofengs are not good for scanning. Does it but not well. If you want a real scanner for a vehicle then there are many options from uniden and other scanner manufacturers. 

[wayoverthere]

9 hours ago, gortex2 said:

The baofengs are not good for scanning. Does it but not well. 

That sums it up well

[dosw]

9 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

That sums it up well

They're fun, inexpensive radios (well, my experience is with the UV5G, but practically the same). However, true scanners they are not. Even a 22 year old Radio Shack scanner will breeze through 22 GMRS frequencies in the time it takes a UV5G to get through five to seven. Modern ones are even faster.

 

One of the key elements to scanning is covering the scanned frequencies quickly enough that you don't miss a lot. Dedicated scanners are good at that. They also often allow for easily turning on or off scan banks, quickly.

[KAF6045]

On 7/23/2022 at 8:15 PM, tep182 said:

Multi-band, to pick up whatever is out there... it's often more entertaining than whatever is programmed on the commercial stations.

"Whatever is out there..." May not be as much as one would like -- depending upon one's taste in "whatever".

The state of Michigan basically finished converting all government (city/county/state) systems over to a single P25 TRUNKED system. That wouldn't be so bad -- my ancient GRE scanner does trunking in something like three schemes.

BUT -- essentially ALL law enforcement "talk groups" are also encrypted. What is left in the clear is things like: the local city zoo, animal control, maybe sewer and water line services. Oh -- Fire dispatch is still simulcast on analog FM. I suspect the government didn't want to provide volunteer firefighters with new radios programmed for the encrypted channels; the volunteers probably (in the past) had to provide their own scanner for the dispatch calls.

My GRE basically sits scanning empty channels except for the rare fire call, while doing checks on the NOAA weather channels for a SAME alert, when it transfers over to sounding the alert message.

I understand the Peoples Republic of CA had also done encrypted -- but there seems to be a law-suit or proposal going through to require them to put the traffic in the clear (freedom of information act, or some such "open government" charges).

 

Analog trunking capable scanners are around $200 (these do not handle P25 or other digital voice encodings) https://www.bearcatscanner.com/uniden-bct15x/

Analog NON-trunking a bit over $100 https://www.bearcatscanner.com/uniden-bc355n/

Digital trunking starts in the $420 and up range https://www.bearcatscanner.com/bcd996p2-base-scanner/ Top end model is $750 -- but you have to pay more to activate digital modes beyond P25 and base Motorola/EDACS/LTR modes (DMR, NXDN, etc. are $$)

 

[back4more70]

I have local police and fire programmed into my cheapo Retevis RA25.  Is it great?  No.  Is it entertaining and informative?  It is.

[Ozo]

I recommend the Uniden Bearcat (handheld) BC125AT .

About $130 for new, but can also be had for less as refurbished.

If you want more fancy, the Uniden Bearcat BCD325P2.

If you want one that mounts.......I have had the ($80?) Uniden Bearcat BC355N Scanner

(or equivalent) in my cars/trucks for over 20yrs and am truly satisfied with them, even

with a $10 antenna stuck on the inside of the glass. A roof antenna is a plus.

[Ozo]

I may have misunderstood you, in what all you wish to 'scan', and

if so, forgive me.....or fire me.

[tep182]

6 hours ago, Ozo said:

I may have misunderstood you, in what all you wish to 'scan', and

if so, forgive me.....or fire me.

 

Yes, just scan channels for activity.   My GMRS HT (Baofeng G11S) has a "scan" feature, but it tends to have difficulty advancing once it finds a signal.   

I have an Anytone 779 UV, but haven't spent the time to figure out how to program it scan channels.

Thank you for the recommendations.  I will look into the Uniden stuff.

[tep182]

Ok, I've learned a little... and still ignorant about a lot.

If you have MacOs... spending the $100 on Parallels (Windows 10 emulator) was worth it to me... because a lot of programming software for old radios tends to be Windows-based.

I played around with programming a BearCat scanner from RadioReference.   ...and I was able to get the Anytone 779 UV software to run without much trouble.  (If the COM port isn't detected, plugging/unplugging seems to work).

It might be the external antenna (+6 dB 5/8 wave / MXTA26) mounted on top via an NMO roof mount... but it picks up a lot more than just the BearCat inside the vehicle.   

The way the Anytone scans and pauses on signals is preferable to the way the BearCat is initially setup.

I recently took and passed the Tech/General exams... but it may take another 3-4 weeks to get government papers because the VE sent the results to the ARRL via postal mail.   

So, I'm still learning and having lots of fun with GMRS.   Messed up the input frequency for the local repeater (up 5!).   Still need to try it out.

A mobile / car-based unit is great for hearing things... at least in this area.   There seems to be some local traffic on the 2-meter ham band... much narrower slice of humanity there.

Need to learn about interpreting a nano-VNA.  Still figuring out if the +6dB 5/8 wave antenna is any good at transmitting or if it can be tuned.   

It would be nice to start building antennas.   A few electronics classes at a community college might help to really swim in these waters.

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, tep182 said:

Ok, I've learned a little... and still ignorant about a lot.

If you have MacOs... spending the $100 on Parallels (Windows 10 emulator) was worth it to me... because a lot of programming software for old radios tends to be Windows-based.

I played around with programming a BearCat scanner from RadioReference.   ...and I was able to get the Anytone 779 UV software to run without much trouble.  (If the COM port isn't detected, plugging/unplugging seems to work).

It might be the external antenna (+6 dB 5/8 wave / MXTA26) mounted on top via an NMO roof mount... but it picks up a lot more than just the BearCat inside the vehicle.   

The way the Anytone scans and pauses on signals is preferable to the way the BearCat is initially setup.

I recently took and passed the Tech/General exams... but it may take another 3-4 weeks to get government papers because the VE sent the results to the ARRL via postal mail.   

So, I'm still learning and having lots of fun with GMRS.   Messed up the input frequency for the local repeater (up 5!).   Still need to try it out.

A mobile / car-based unit is great for hearing things... at least in this area.   There seems to be some local traffic on the 2-meter ham band... much narrower slice of humanity there.

Need to learn about interpreting a nano-VNA.  Still figuring out if the +6dB 5/8 wave antenna is any good at transmitting or if it can be tuned.   

It would be nice to start building antennas.   A few electronics classes at a community college might help to really swim in these waters.

Check your FCC online record. VEs work with VECs, who typically submit electronically. Also, the FCC doesn’t send anything to you via snail mail. Your license file is accessed electronically. You are responsible for printing it. 

[KAF6045]

6 hours ago, tep182 said:

It might be the external antenna (+6 dB 5/8 wave / MXTA26) mounted on top via an NMO roof mount... but it picks up a lot more than just the BearCat inside the vehicle.   

Most externals will pick up more than a rubber duck inside a metal cage. Also, for receive purposes, a long whip  has more "surface" to capture RF, though it will tend to focus best on the frequency for which it is tuned (that RF capture will be focused perpendicular to the antenna, while other frequencies may have more capture at odd angles).

6 hours ago, tep182 said:

Need to learn about interpreting a nano-VNA.  Still figuring out if the +6dB 5/8 wave antenna is any good at transmitting or if it can be tuned.  

Tuned for what? Midland's website indicates they ship it tuned for the 462MHz GMRS range (I'd have preferred something either in 465MHz with a bandwidth to cover both 462 and 467MHz, since one transmits on 467MHz to hit repeaters).

I'm still waiting for the nanoVNA to arrive (really, China ships it to a New York port? Isn't San Diego/LA/San Francisco/Seattle closer?).

Based upon scanning a users guide: select a trace, select format SWR, select CH0 Reflect, Stimulus to set start&end frequencies (460-470?), possibly modify "sweep points", calibrate, (Hmmm, the document I'm looking at doesn't seem to cover how one runs the sweep itself -- does the device just continuously run sweeps?) Look for the minimum SWR and see what frequency that aligns with... You may also want to look for the 2.0:1 points left/right of minimum as that will define the preferred bandwidth covered.

[tep182]

7 hours ago, KAF6045 said:

Most externals will pick up more than a rubber duck inside a metal cage. Also, for receive purposes, a long whip  has more "surface" to capture RF, though it will tend to focus best on the frequency for which it is tuned (that RF capture will be focused perpendicular to the antenna, while other frequencies may have more capture at odd angles).

Tuned for what? Midland's website indicates they ship it tuned for the 462MHz GMRS range (I'd have preferred something either in 465MHz with a bandwidth to cover both 462 and 467MHz, since one transmits on 467MHz to hit repeaters).

There were many Amazon reviews complaining about the SWR; that could be caused by other factors including loose connections, bad wiring, lack of ground plane (fiberglass roof instead of metal).

There are some set screws in the base that might allow a bit of fine adjustment.   If necessary, transmit power can be reduced... but maximizing reach within the legal constraints feels like a challenge.  ...that is where using a nanoVNA to measure optimum antenna length might be handy.
 

7 hours ago, KAF6045 said:

I'm still waiting for the nanoVNA to arrive (really, China ships it to a New York port? Isn't San Diego/LA/San Francisco/Seattle closer?).

Based upon scanning a users guide: select a trace, select format SWR, select CH0 Reflect, Stimulus to set start&end frequencies (460-470?), possibly modify "sweep points", calibrate, (Hmmm, the document I'm looking at doesn't seem to cover how one runs the sweep itself -- does the device just continuously run sweeps?) Look for the minimum SWR and see what frequency that aligns with... You may also want to look for the 2.0:1 points left/right of minimum as that will define the preferred bandwidth covered.

My nanoVNA hasn't arrived yet either.  If all else fails, I'll annoy some electricians.

 

11 hours ago, Sshannon said:

Check your FCC online record. VEs work with VECs, who typically submit electronically. Also, the FCC doesn’t send anything to you via snail mail. Your license file is accessed electronically. You are responsible for printing it. 

Checking the ULS frequently.    Took the in-person testing option.  Found out afterward this group sends everything snail mail.   The online exam process, required use of multiple cameras and a sketchy app called "Zoom" ...which may be vulnerable to Chinese Communist Party biometric data-collection... would probably still choose to do it the slow way.

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, tep182 said:

There were many Amazon reviews complaining about the SWR; that could be caused by other factors including loose connections, bad wiring, lack of ground plane (fiberglass roof instead of metal).

There are some set screws in the base that might allow a bit of fine adjustment.   If necessary, transmit power can be reduced... but maximizing reach within the legal constraints feels like a challenge.  ...that is where using a nanoVNA to measure optimum antenna length might be handy.
 

My nanoVNA hasn't arrived yet either.  If all else fails, I'll annoy some electricians.

 

Checking the ULS frequently.    Took the in-person testing option.  Found out afterward this group sends everything snail mail.   The online exam process, required use of multiple cameras and a sketchy app called "Zoom" ...which may be vulnerable to Chinese Communist Party biometric data-collection... would probably still choose to do it the slow way.

There are places in the USA that stock NanoVNAs.  Based on reviews on the Ham Radio 2.0 YouTube channel, here’s where I bought my NanoVNA.  I got it in less than a week. 

http://www.randl.com/shop/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=142&osCsid=fu3f0ql3nieitil9ir623bmcb6

 

I’m a Volunteer Examiner for my local ham radio club.  We’re part of the Laurel VE organization.
We (three VEs grade each test) do in person testing and then our VEC (Volunteer Examiner Coordinator) submits the scores electronically using an online portal set up for that. Usually a person has access to their license file within 24 hours.

I have a friend in Seattle who is also a VE.  His group does virtual examinations.  Except for using video conferencing software to watch the person taking the test, it’s the same process.  Three VEs watch each person and grade their test and then their VEC submits electronically.  

I didn’t even know that the test results could still be done snail mail. 

It’s funny what you said about biometrics.  When I was working, my boss (who was a very nice lady much younger than me) thought it would be “really cool” if we had fingerprint scanners to enter our secure facility and suggested that I look into it. The group I supervised managed the access control system.  A cybersecurity auditor explained to me that they prefer not to see biometric forms of ID verification adopted because once someone has the ability to spoof your biometrics, your biometrics are worthless as an ID.  You cannot easily change your fingerprints, facial structure, retinal pattern, etc, like you can a password, pass phrases, PIN, RFID chip based token, etc. So, we avoided biometrics.  Do you use them for identification somewhere?  If not, the data captured from a Zoom call probably isn’t a threat. Hopefully your license will appear in ULS at any moment.

[KAF6045]

4 hours ago, tep182 said:

There were many Amazon reviews complaining about the SWR; that could be caused by other factors including loose connections, bad wiring, lack of ground plane (fiberglass roof instead of metal).

There are some set screws in the base that might allow a bit of fine adjustment.   If necessary, transmit power can be reduced... but maximizing reach within the legal constraints feels like a challenge.  ...that is where using a nanoVNA to measure optimum antenna length might be handy.

My nanoVNA hasn't arrived yet either.  If all else fails, I'll annoy some electricians.

{Blast -- sometimes I can get a quote block to "split" so I can insert comments under the appropriate text... This is not one of those times}

Fiberglass roof is NO ground plane, so that should be essentially unusable.

Hopefully you don't have to lengthen it much (you can always grind off part of the whip to set it deeper into the socket, but if it wants to go up where the set screws won't reach it...)

I'm not really desperate for the Nano VNA -- I do have two MFJ Antenna Analyzers that cover HF-UHF (though the functions in UHF are limited compared to VHF and below). 'Tis just that manually tuning through the band and watching the SWR readout or needles move (one has LCD and needles, other is just LCD, needles are a bit easier to detect motion) is tedious. The Nano VNA was ordered for the graphical display and automated frequency sweep.

Tracking information implies it has spent two days in New York "unloading".