Antennas on houses

[VETCOMMS]

Thinking of putting an antenna on either my house (higher off the ground) or on the garage (not as high) but Mother Nature likes to share electricity in the form of lightning bolts around here.

What do you guys do to help with grounding?  I'm thinking an Ed Fong antenna unless another antenna might be better.

[OffRoaderX]

1 minute ago, WRTZ750 said:

What do you guys do to help with grounding? 

 

[VETCOMMS]

Oh no, that makes me nervous.

[SteveShannon]

Use a good quality lightning arrester where your coax enters the house and ground it. If you know a storm is approaching you should disconnect your radio from all external cables: power, ground, and coax. 
If you want something that is more resilient then there’s a document that describes how commercial communication sites are protected. Nobody goes to them and unplugs everything when there’s a storm. I’ll post a link: https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/Lands_ROW_Motorola_R56_2005_manual.pdf

 
Meanwhile here’s a short video:

 

[VETCOMMS]

Thanks for that.  I'll check it out.

[dosw]

3 hours ago, WRTZ750 said:

Thinking of putting an antenna on either my house (higher off the ground) or on the garage (not as high) but Mother Nature likes to share electricity in the form of lightning bolts around here.

What do you guys do to help with grounding?  I'm thinking an Ed Fong antenna unless another antenna might be better.

 

Does your home have a TV aerial that is no longer in use? It probably is grounded. And it may be in the optimal roof-mount location for your GMRS antenna.

[axorlov]

Both of these questions pop up regularly, on a bi-weekly schedule. The forum has plenty of info on both Ed Fong antenna and grounding. Use search button.

[Blaise]

On 8/28/2022 at 6:15 PM, WRQW589 said:

Does your home have a TV aerial that is no longer in use? It probably is grounded. And it may be in the optimal roof-mount location for your GMRS antenna.

Wait.  This is a thing?!?!?  How would that work? Do you stick it out the top, off the side, or what?

[KAF6045]

3 hours ago, Blaise said:

Wait.  This is a thing?!?!?  How would that work? Do you stick it out the top, off the side, or what?

Remove the "no longer in use" TV Yagi [not quite -- Yagi's have one driven element tuned for a single frequency range, TV booms have multiple drivers each tuned for a different TV band (VHF LOW, VHF HIGH, UHF)] antenna from the mast, clamp GMRS antenna to said mast, run coax (the old TV antenna probably uses 300-ohm twin-lead)

[axorlov]

I have both TV and GMRS antenna on the same mast. TV antenna is UHF yagi and VHF log periodic combination, I do not remember the model.  TV antenna at 10', and Diamond X50NA is 8' above the TV antenna. I was a bit worried that I will fry the TV tuner frontend, but so far it did not happen in roughly 5 years. TV tuner is Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1250.

[Stone]

I'm a big time green here. Loosing my posting virginity as I type! That said I do have real world experience with this issue. In the late 70's we all played round with the CB radio. I ran a base with an outside antenna. 10 foot Fiberglass whip 35 feet up on an extendable mast anchored to the house for support. Sat on a spike in the ground. Never had any trouble. Not exactly by "code" but never had any trouble. Then I moved into a trailer park and had to ground the antenna or they would not let me put it up. Hey! Why not! Been told that it wasn't code several times not to ground it. So I grounded it with heavy gauge copper wire attached to the place on the antenna base that was designated for it and drove a couple 4 foot copper ground rods into the ground. One week later I took a direct hit! Very first storm after grounding! They found fiberglass 5 trailers away in that mobile home park! My neighbor was getting coffee at the time and saw the thing hit. Best light show he ever saw and he did not want to see it again! Fried the cable, microwave, TV, Stereo, Landline phone. (No cell in those days). I had just unplugged the CB from the antenna and outlet so it was saved. Ever hear a CRACK then the thunder rolling away? It is an interesting feeling. Kind of a warm mushy feeling in the rear... Anyway I digress. Ever since that happened, I have had an antenna and I have NOT grounded it. And ever since my 35 foot tower and antenna has been safe even though my neighbors tree about 50 feet away has been hit twice in the last ten years. This is what happens in the real world. Lightning looks for a ground. Turning your antenna into what is essentially a lightning rod is not the way to go and I speak from actual experience on the issue from the real world. Of course however, this is just my opinion and experience. Actual mileage will vary. Everyone have a great day!

[JohnE]

 Grounding is a double edge sword. most power supplies have a grounded plug(3 prong) that means it is grounded to your AC electrical system. The radio attached to it is in turn grounded as is the antenna connector on the back a chassis ground. You see where this is going.
At a minimum I would get a Polyphaser and make sure it has a proper ground that will offer some protection.

The pic below is an example of a direct hit. Antenna was completely vaporized, connector too.  The Polyphaser had to be removed from the ground bar w/hammer. the equipment (a city agency) was undamaged. The cable will most likely have to be changed as a precaution.

[marcspaz]

To follow-up with what Stone said, if you are going to put a grounding system in with spike/surge protection, it needs to be perfect or you are just improving your odds of getting struck and having stuff get broken by making a better grounded lightning attracter. 

 

During lightning season, I just disconnect the cables and toss them on the ground when the radio is not in use.  I never lost anything but a single antenna and transmission line due to an indirect lightning strike.  Zero damage to the house or anything else around the antenna.

 

I guess the point of my story is, execute with perfection or don't waste your time.

[axorlov]

By common scientific understanding, lightning rods do not attract lightning bolts. They do provide a short path to the ground for direct or nearby hit, so Instead of you getting a coolest scar on your face and back (looks best when in coffin), you just see the fire show.

There is also a short story by Mark Twain, Political Economy, hilarious as usual, but spreading misconception. But I can forgive Twain.

[SteveShannon]

3 hours ago, Stone said:

I'm a big time green here. Loosing my posting virginity as I type! That said I do have real world experience with this issue. In the late 70's we all played round with the CB radio. I ran a base with an outside antenna. 10 foot Fiberglass whip 35 feet up on an extendable mast anchored to the house for support. Sat on a spike in the ground. Never had any trouble. Not exactly by "code" but never had any trouble. Then I moved into a trailer park and had to ground the antenna or they would not let me put it up. Hey! Why not! Been told that it wasn't code several times not to ground it. So I grounded it with heavy gauge copper wire attached to the place on the antenna base that was designated for it and drove a couple 4 foot copper ground rods into the ground. One week later I took a direct hit! Very first storm after grounding! They found fiberglass 5 trailers away in that mobile home park! My neighbor was getting coffee at the time and saw the thing hit. Best light show he ever saw and he did not want to see it again! Fried the cable, microwave, TV, Stereo, Landline phone. (No cell in those days). I had just unplugged the CB from the antenna and outlet so it was saved. Ever hear a CRACK then the thunder rolling away? It is an interesting feeling. Kind of a warm mushy feeling in the rear... Anyway I digress. Ever since that happened, I have had an antenna and I have NOT grounded it. And ever since my 35 foot tower and antenna has been safe even though my neighbors tree about 50 feet away has been hit twice in the last ten years. This is what happens in the real world. Lightning looks for a ground. Turning your antenna into what is essentially a lightning rod is not the way to go and I speak from actual experience on the issue from the real world. Of course however, this is just my opinion and experience. Actual mileage will vary. Everyone have a great day!

Here’s the deal. Unless you’re in an airplane, your antenna is grounded no matter what. It’s just a case of you providing a path to ground that minimizes damage. It’s much better to have that path outside your house. 
Disconnecting is good but you still need a grounding system outside your house. 

[marcspaz]

30 minutes ago, axorlov said:

lightning rods do not attract lightning bolts. They do provide a short path to the ground for direct or nearby hit,

 

True... I was being a tad facetious.  The lightning strike is coming no matter what.   However, I have had nearby strikes hit my antenna right next to the house, but have never had the house hit. 

 

I guess my point is, your lightning protection can give electricity a lower resistance path that can do damage if done incorrectly... damage that may not have occurred if the resistance was higher and the strike didn't hit the house/arrester at all.

[tweiss3]

Everyone has an opinion on what is worth the effort, lightening, etc....

 

Keep in mind, there is a standard, the National Electrical Code, as well as the possibility of local building codes. I would recommend you start there as the minimum standard, which isn't too difficult or expensive to achieve. Also keep in the back of your head, should you decided to do an install that is not compliant with the code, and something does happen, insurances and/or code officials can make your life a living nightmare.

[Lscott]

See attached files.

14641445_GroundingTipsfortheShack.pdf 203345484_LightningProtectionGroundingSolutionsforCommunicationSites.pdf