MULTI USE RADIO SERVICE Mobile Radio

[WQAI363]

Without mentioning the Radio vender's Name, I watched a video featuring the WOUXUN KG1000M MURS Mobile Radio. This made me wonder why WOUXUN didn't just combine GMRS and MURS into one dual band radio. This way it gives consumers the ability flip between VHF and UHF. Of course, GMRS would be more likely to get the most use age out of the two radio services.

Then again, VHF simplex has some advantages where UHF simplex doesn't. I won't say that MURS or GMRS better than the other, but I will say that there are two tools that are a must in the communication toolbox.

One thing that was confusing to me when they mentioned the split tone capability on the KG1000M. Why would WOUXUN include split tone capability on a MURS radio, when the FCC part 95 J forbids the use of repeaters on MURS? 

[wrci350]

You cannot combine GMRS or MURS with any other service and have the radio be type-accepted.

Good or bad as they might be otherwise, Wouxun seem to care about selling radios that are type-accepted under part 95E or 95J.

As far as split-tones, I'm sure the KG1000M shares most of it's firmware with the KG1000G, which is probably why.  In theory you could use split tones for simplex communication as long as there are only two radios in use.  Things would get confusing if there were three or more radios involved.  You *could* set things up with a base using one transmit tone and HTs with a second and the reverse for receive, then all the HTs could hear the base, and the base could hear all of the HTs, but the HTs could not hear each other.

[WQAI363]

26 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

You cannot combine GMRS or MURS with any other service and have the radio be type-accepted.

Good or bad as they might be otherwise, Wouxun seem to care about selling radios that are type-accepted under part 95E or 95J.

As far as split-tones, I'm sure the KG1000M shares most of it's firmware with the KG1000G, which is probably why.  In theory you could use split tones for simplex communication as long as there are only two radios in use.  Things would get confusing if there were three or more radios involved.

I realize they're two different sections of part 95, but that shouldn't prevent manufactures from obtaining typed acceptance for two service for a radio that could useful. UNIDEN has HT on the market for MARINE as well as FRS GMRS. Of course, I don't Believe the radio repeater capable on GMRS, it's typed accepted for Part 80 and 95 E. Don't tell me GMRS and MURS CAN NOT BE COMBINE.  I UNIDEN was able obtain type acceptance for Maine and FRS/GMRS, then it's possible for a manufacture to acquire type acceptance for GMRS and MURS.

[SteveShannon]

37 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

You cannot combine GMRS or MURS with any other service and have the radio be type-accepted.

Good or bad as they might be otherwise, Wouxun seem to care about selling radios that are type-accepted under part 95E or 95J.

As far as split-tones, I'm sure the KG1000M shares most of it's firmware with the KG1000G, which is probably why.  In theory you could use split tones for simplex communication as long as there are only two radios in use.  Things would get confusing if there were three or more radios involved.  You *could* set things up with a base using one transmit tone and HTs with a second and the reverse for receive, then all the HTs could hear the base, and the base could hear all of the HTs, but the HTs could not hear each other.

I don't believe this is accurate.  A transmitter is prohibited to be type certified for both GMRS and amateur radio and a transmitter is prohibited to be certified for both GMRS and FRS, but there's nothing in the regulations that prohibits a combination GMRS and MURS.

Here's the relevant regulation:

No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure.

[MichaelLAX]

28 minutes ago, Adamdaj said:

 I UNIDEN was able obtain type acceptance for Maine and FRS/GMRS...

Link please.

[wrci350]

Actually, it IS accurate.     You are correct, the wording in Part 95e calls out amateur radio specifically.  But, 95j says:

§ 95.2761 MURS transmitter certification.

(a) Each MURS transmitter (a transmitter that operates or is intended to operate in MURS) must be certified in accordance with this subpart and part 2 of this chapter.

(b) A grant of equipment certification will not be issued for any MURS transmitter type that fails to comply with all of the applicable rules in this subpart.

(c) A grant of equipment certification will not be issued for MURS transmitters capable of operating under both this subpart (MURS) and under any other subparts of this chapter (except part 15).

In other words, you cannot have a radio that is certified for MURS and GMRS.  "This chapter" refers to Title 47 Chapter 1, which includes not only Parts 95, 97, and 90 but also part 15.

[wrci350]

31 minutes ago, Adamdaj said:

I realize they're two different sections of part 95, but that shouldn't prevent manufactures from obtaining typed acceptance for two service for a radio that could useful. UNIDEN has HT on the market for MARINE as well as FRS GMRS. Of course, I don't Believe the radio repeater capable on GMRS, it's typed accepted for Part 80 and 95 E. Don't tell me GMRS and MURS CAN NOT BE COMBINE.  I UNIDEN was able obtain type acceptance for Maine and FRS/GMRS, then it's possible for a manufacture to acquire type acceptance for GMRS and MURS.

Read my latest post.

MURS is not allowed to be combined with any other part except 15.

As @Sshannon stated, *GMRS* can be combined with other radio types that require type-acceptance (such as Part 80).

MURS cannot.  Says so right in 95J.

[WRUU653]

1 hour ago, Adamdaj said:

UNIDEN has HT on the market for MARINE as well as FRS GMRS.

Not anymore it doesn’t. Cobra had one too. It’s also gone. I believe some rule changes with the FCC prevented this from continuing. 

[SteveShannon]

2 hours ago, wrci350 said:

Actually, it IS accurate.     You are correct, the wording in Part 95e calls out amateur radio specifically.  But, 95j says:

§ 95.2761 MURS transmitter certification.

(a) Each MURS transmitter (a transmitter that operates or is intended to operate in MURS) must be certified in accordance with this subpart and part 2 of this chapter.

(b) A grant of equipment certification will not be issued for any MURS transmitter type that fails to comply with all of the applicable rules in this subpart.

(c) A grant of equipment certification will not be issued for MURS transmitters capable of operating under both this subpart (MURS) and under any other subparts of this chapter (except part 15).

In other words, you cannot have a radio that is certified for MURS and GMRS.  "This chapter" refers to Title 47 Chapter 1, which includes not only Parts 95, 97, and 90 but also part 15.

You’re right. I should have read the MURS requirements. 

[WQAI363]

13 hours ago, WRUU653 said:

Not anymore it doesn’t. Cobra had one too. It’s also gone. I believe some rule changes with the FCC prevented this from continuing. 

I didn't realize that Cobra had ceased productions on that radio. I assume that particular radio consumers were caught using the Marine Channels on land and not the FRS/GMRS as intended.  However, I don't see any reason that the FCC wouldn't approve certification for two radio services in the same radio, such as GMRS and MURS. I know that they're in two different sub sections, but isn't complicated like Cobra's radio that was meant primarily for MARITME use. Both services are available for consumers and getting GMRS license is fine, but why carry two different radios when one radio with the certification can solve the problem of not carrying two radios.

 

[MichaelLAX]

24 minutes ago, Adamdaj said:

However, I don't see any reason that the FCC wouldn't approve certification for two radio services in the same radio, such as GMRS and MURS...

Let me post a wise man's quote for your answer:

On 12/8/2022 at 3:43 PM, Adamdaj said:

The simple answer is, NO! I assume that you hold an Amateur Radio License as well a GMRS License. You're already aware that GMRS falls under FCC part 95 and Amateur Radio part 97. 

 

[Lscott]

25 minutes ago, Adamdaj said:

However, I don't see any reason that the FCC wouldn't approve certification for two radio services in the same radio, such as GMRS and MURS.

It would just be a repeat of the same mistake they made allowing combo GMRS/FRS radios to be sold. Almost nobody read the paperwork stating a license was required to use, at the time, the exclusive GMRS frequencies.

Doing as suggested, combining a licensed and unlicensed service in one radio, will just invite the same problem.  People will read the no license required part for MURS and then promptly use the GMRS half of the radio without a license too. The FCC isn't going to make that mistake again. 

[wrci350]

45 minutes ago, Adamdaj said:

However, I don't see any reason that the FCC wouldn't approve certification for two radio services in the same radio, such as GMRS and MURS.

As @Lscott said, they learned the lesson of mixing licensed and unlicensed in one radio and don't want to make the same mistake again.

Even more importantly, it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else thinks should be OK; what matters is what the FCC has determined and published.

There are plenty of radios out there that will do MURS and GMRS (and 2m and 70cm ham) but they aren't type-accepted for either GMRS or MURS.  

[WQAI363]

I'm sorry that I posted this topic. I really didn't weigh all the pros and cons of having two radio services in one. However, that would be a good mobile or portable to have. I should have realized there will knuckle heads coming out of the woodwork and causing mayhem. So I will apologize for even posting this.

7 minutes ago, Lscott said:

It would just be a repeat of the same mistake they made allowing combo GMRS/FRS radios to be sold. Almost nobody read the paperwork stating a license was required to use, at the time, the exclusive GMRS frequencies.

Doing as suggested, combining a licensed and unlicensed service in one radio, will just invite the same problem.  People will read the no license required part for MURS and then promptly use the GMRS half of the radio without a license too. The FCC isn't going to make that mistake again. 

[WRUU653]

25 minutes ago, Lscott said:

It would just be a repeat of the same mistake they made allowing combo GMRS/FRS radios to be sold. Almost nobody read the paperwork stating a license was required to use, at the time, the exclusive GMRS frequencies.

Doing as suggested, combining a licensed and unlicensed service in one radio, will just invite the same problem.  People will read the no license required part for MURS and then promptly use the GMRS half of the radio without a license too. The FCC isn't going to make that mistake again. 

Nailed it!  
MURS/GMRS = GMURS? No better yet MUGRS! sorry I’ll show myself out

[Radioguy7268]

26 minutes ago, Lscott said:

The FCC isn't going to make that mistake again. 

I don't disagree with your overall point, but that part made me laugh. The FCC makes mistakes all the time, and then repeats many of their mistakes.

I'm not really in favor of dual band, dual certification type radios for GMRS - but I will say that having a $35 "license" with no testing required (other than testing your ability to pay $35) doesn't really create anything except a revenue stream. There's not even a short little quiz to prove that you understand a thing about the rules before you pay your $35. I won't even get into the whole "licensed relative" thing.

 

[MichaelLAX]

13 minutes ago, Adamdaj said:

I'm sorry that I posted this topic. I really didn't weigh all the pros and cons of having two radio services in one. However, that would be a good mobile or portable to have. I should have realized there will knuckle heads coming out of the woodwork and causing mayhem. So I will apologize for even posting this.

No apology necessary: just realize that when you post a "hypothetical" question for which we have no control over the final answer, you will get "31 flavors" of answers.