www.radioreference.com - Subscription Service Fee?

[Lscott]

For a while now the site has placed more "features" behind a subscription paywall. I understand it takes money and time to build, run and maintain a site like that. My question is how many people use it, and if they do are they paying the subscription service fee? I'm debating whether it's worth it for the few times I might need the info they have behind the paywall. I know it's not a lot of money but paying $60 for two years for something I might use a half dozen times doesn't look like a good deal.

[BoxCar]

Radio Reference is a site I barely used in 10 years doing Part 90.20 and 90.35 frequency work. A lot of the info on the site is available elsewhere but not as organized. If you want to know what frequencies are licensed for a particular agency, it is a good resource as some have multiple FRNs they use. Is it worth the money? That's something only a user could answer.

[Lscott]

2 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

Radio Reference is a site I barely used in 10 years doing Part 90.20 and 90.35 frequency work. A lot of the info on the site is available elsewhere but not as organized. If you want to know what frequencies are licensed for a particular agency, it is a good resource as some have multiple FRNs they use. Is it worth the money? That's something only a user could answer.

The one problem is outdated and or wrong info. I looked at some entries for the city I work in to see what they use for the fire dispatch frequency, something to monitor while working on the computer in the office. They have something listed. But when you dig deeper I found the license is expired. That's the sort of crap I don't want to waste my money on.

[tweiss3]

What is paywalled now? I provide a feed, so I don't notice. I thought you could always get to the database, but "downloading" the information required the subscription.

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, tweiss3 said:

What is paywalled now? I provide a feed, so I don't notice. I thought you could always get to the database, but "downloading" the information required the subscription.

Well now if you want the repeater input frequencies, as one example, that's behind the paywall now.

https://www.radioreference.com/premium/

I haven't tried anything else since I don't use it that much. I know when they made the change some months back various people on their forums weren't happy.

[wrci350]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

The one problem is outdated and or wrong info. I looked at some entries for the city I work in to see what they use for the fire dispatch frequency, something to monitor while working on the computer in the office. They have something listed. But when you dig deeper I found the license is expired. That's the sort of crap I don't want to waste my money on.

The RR database is crowd sourced.  Everything in it is [supposed to be] based on a submission from someone who has actually monitored that frequency and can positively identify who is using it.  Are there errors?  Sure.  Another issue is that unless someone is directly involved with a system it's hard to tell if the use of a frequency has actually been discontinued or if it's been kept as a backup to a new system.

As far as expired licenses, do you really think that there aren't any entities out there still using a frequency that was allocated on a license that has expired?  

It is worth pointing out that the RR database is NOT fed from the FCC license database.  There are tons of licenses out there that are not in use, or where someone has licensed analog plus DMR or NXDN (or both) but are only using analog.

The premium subscription gives you the ability to download from the database into scanner programming software.  AFAIK just looking at the database on the web site is free.

[Lscott]

28 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

The RR database is crowd sourced.  Everything in it is [supposed to be] based on a submission from someone who has actually monitored that frequency and can positively identify who is using it.  Are there errors?  Sure.  Another issue is that unless someone is directly involved with a system it's hard to tell if the use of a frequency has actually been discontinued or if it's been kept as a backup to a new system.

As far as expired licenses, do you really think that there aren't any entities out there still using a frequency that was allocated on a license that has expired?  

It is worth pointing out that the RR database is NOT fed from the FCC license database.  There are tons of licenses out there that are not in use, or where someone has licensed analog plus DMR or NXDN (or both) but are only using analog.

The premium subscription gives you the ability to download from the database into scanner programming software.  AFAIK just looking at the database on the web site is free.

I don't care if it's crowd sourced. If I have to pay money to access various features it should be more reliable/accurate. Otherwise just stick ad's everywhere to pay the costs and let people use it for free. In that case I wouldn't care.

[wrci350]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

I don't care if it's crowd sourced. If I have to pay money to access various features it should be more reliable/accurate. Otherwise just stick ad's everywhere to pay the costs and let people use it for free. In that case I wouldn't care.

OK please lay out your plan for making it more accurate.  I'm sure the owner/founder would be happy to hear it.

Submissions are accepted from people who have first-hand knowledge of the frequency in question.  There is no way for some central authority to verify everything.  Just because there is a reference to an expired license doesn't mean the frequency isn't still in use.

Your initial post made it pretty clear that you don't feel it's worth the money, so why did you even ask?  There are lots of other folks (including me) who use it on a regular basis who feel it IS worth the few bucks a month it costs.

[Lscott]

57 minutes ago, wrci350 said:

Your initial post made it pretty clear that you don't feel it's worth the money, so why did you even ask?  There are lots of other folks (including me) who use it on a regular basis who feel it IS worth the few bucks a month it costs.

I didn't make it clear. I'm questioning is it really worth it. What aspects are worth the cost that couldn't be found elsewhere? So far I haven't really got a direct answer to that.

If I have to pay for something I want to know if I'm getting value for the money spent. I couldn't care less how they ensure or maintain the database on that site. They're asking money based on it's contents so it's their problem.

[tweiss3]

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

I don't care if it's crowd sourced. If I have to pay money to access various features it should be more reliable/accurate. Otherwise just stick ad's everywhere to pay the costs and let people use it for free. In that case I wouldn't care.

I remember the "change" about 6 months ago. The site now refuses to run ads (other than the scannermaster banner) and there might have been a few changes that came along with that. To be honest, most of the stuff doesn't have input frequencies. Unless the submitter also includes the input frequency from the license, most of the time they can't hear the users on the input.

As for the rest of the stuff, I only listen to the Calls platform when I am trying to follow a single incident, or listening to all the snow removal crews from my commute route. 

[Lscott]

Just now, tweiss3 said:

I remember the "change" about 6 months ago. The site now refuses to run ads (other than the scannermaster banner) and there might have been a few changes that came along with that. To be honest, most of the stuff doesn't have input frequencies. Unless the submitter also includes the input frequency from the license, most of the time they can't hear the users on the input.

As for the rest of the stuff, I only listen to the Calls platform when I am trying to follow a single incident, or listening to all the snow removal crews from my commute route. 

Thanks. This is the sort of info I was hoping to get from people.

With more stuff getting marketed as subscription services, cable TV, satellite radio, even the remote start on my new ride is a pay for service, and it's spreading. One needs to sit down and honestly ask if what they are getting is worth the price paid.

https://fortune.com/2022/07/12/bmw-heated-seats-subscription-microtransactions-south-korea/

[wrci350]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

I didn't make it clear. I'm questioning is it really worth it. What aspects are worth the cost that couldn't be found elsewhere? So far I haven't really got a direct answer to that.

If I have to pay for something I want to know if I'm getting value for the money spent. I couldn't care less how they ensure or maintain the database on that site. They're asking money based on it's contents so it's their problem.

It's absolutely worth it *for me*, since I use the database download feature on a regular basis.  If that's not something you will use, then off the top of my head I can't think of a reason it would be worth it for you.

[gortex2]

So being this has been beaten to death on RR I don't really want 200 posts on this forum over it. It is up to you to pay or not. I provide multiple feeds so don't pay for service however paid prior to my feeds for many years. For me its the ability to download scanner files and to look up certain data. So its all what you can get out of it. Prior to him hiding some of this stuff we had adds and everyone complained about that so he removed the adds and said pay to get certain items. For the cost of servers and everything it takes to host the RR Site, Forums, Databases, and Broadcastify I don't feel its unreasonable. 

[MichaelLAX]

1 hour ago, gortex2 said:

... I don't really want 200 posts on this forum over it...

Same could be said for 1095 other posts on this Forum! 

[WRKC935]

Well, I have used it both as a paying member and a non-paying member.

SO the question of is it worth it.  And that is gonna be determined by a couple things.

First is what scanner you have. Some scanners will directly import info from RR and other's don't as easily. 

Second is how good are you at programming scanners.  If you don't really know much about doing it, and your scanner is compatible, then yes it's certainly worth it.

Third is what is your time worth to you?  Meaning, if you are looking to put a major cities complete talkgroup list in a scanner, you are gonna spend HOURS doing that by hand.  With the power to import comes the ability to import specific stuff in specific zones.  Which is MORE time consuming to do by hand.  so if you look at the cost as a time saver, which it is, then again it's worth the little bit of money for at least the 180 day membership in my opinion.  Now I ain't coughing up the big bucks for a 3 year run, but when I have a couple scanners to do, I will toss them the bucks for a 180 run and program the scanners I need to get done.  Again, personal opinion and choice.

 

There were some comments made about accuracy of the database overall.  Stuff isn't removed from the database unless someone tells them it's bad data.  IIf you know of bad data, tell them and they will make the needed corrections.  I know about this first hand.  I have passed on a number of corrections as my customers have moved off of VHF and UHF and on to the state wide system.  They were always happy to have the corrections and made the database updates quickly.  Of course the local admin guy I deal with knows me personally and knows if I inform them of something, it's correct.  So there is no question with my data.  Your mileage may vary with that. 

 

That being said, the forums kn RR are like the wild wild west of the radio world.  There are a number of people that will post total BS in order to bump their post count.  That or they truly think the know what they are talking about and have it all wrong.  And there is little point in correcting them as they are convinced they are right and will argue the dumbest points.  But the nonsense on there is good for a laugh at times.

So my parting shot is this.  If you either don't want to put in the effort to manually program a scanner, don't know how, or simply value your time, I would advise you to carefully consider a short membership. 

And the downloading of scanner configurations is NOT the only plus to the membership.  It opens up several other commercial databases that are either very limited or are completely hidden from non-paying members.  There are direct links to the FCC web site for the licenses, and a search tool for FCC licenses behind the pay wall as well.  So there are additional features.  Lastly, they DO indeed keep a better records than about anywhere else.  For both frequencies and talk group information.  And supporting that effort is probably worth the little bit of money they ask for with a paid membership.

 

[Lscott]

9 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

Well, I have used it both as a paying member and a non-paying member.

SO the question of is it worth it.  And that is gonna be determined by a couple things.

First is what scanner you have. Some scanners will directly import info from RR and other's don't as easily. 

Second is how good are you at programming scanners.  If you don't really know much about doing it, and your scanner is compatible, then yes it's certainly worth it.

Third is what is your time worth to you?  Meaning, if you are looking to put a major cities complete talkgroup list in a scanner, you are gonna spend HOURS doing that by hand.  With the power to import comes the ability to import specific stuff in specific zones.  Which is MORE time consuming to do by hand.  so if you look at the cost as a time saver, which it is, then again it's worth the little bit of money for at least the 180 day membership in my opinion.  Now I ain't coughing up the big bucks for a 3 year run, but when I have a couple scanners to do, I will toss them the bucks for a 180 run and program the scanners I need to get done.  Again, personal opinion and choice.

 

There were some comments made about accuracy of the database overall.  Stuff isn't removed from the database unless someone tells them it's bad data.  IIf you know of bad data, tell them and they will make the needed corrections.  I know about this first hand.  I have passed on a number of corrections as my customers have moved off of VHF and UHF and on to the state wide system.  They were always happy to have the corrections and made the database updates quickly.  Of course the local admin guy I deal with knows me personally and knows if I inform them of something, it's correct.  So there is no question with my data.  Your mileage may vary with that. 

 

That being said, the forums kn RR are like the wild wild west of the radio world.  There are a number of people that will post total BS in order to bump their post count.  That or they truly think the know what they are talking about and have it all wrong.  And there is little point in correcting them as they are convinced they are right and will argue the dumbest points.  But the nonsense on there is good for a laugh at times.

So my parting shot is this.  If you either don't want to put in the effort to manually program a scanner, don't know how, or simply value your time, I would advise you to carefully consider a short membership. 

And the downloading of scanner configurations is NOT the only plus to the membership.  It opens up several other commercial databases that are either very limited or are completely hidden from non-paying members.  There are direct links to the FCC web site for the licenses, and a search tool for FCC licenses behind the pay wall as well.  So there are additional features.  Lastly, they DO indeed keep a better records than about anywhere else.  For both frequencies and talk group information.  And supporting that effort is probably worth the little bit of money they ask for with a paid membership.

 

I don't have any scanners to program. It seems that's what the site is basically built for as the main usage. What I would be looking for are a few frequencies that I can put in a my radios to monitor. That's all done manually so downloadable lists aren't useful.

Some of the other points you make are valid. I wasn't aware there are other databases not visible to non-paying members. Those have me leaning towards shelling out the money. If I do then the 2 year subscription might be the one. There is no discount for the longer subscriptions however. Oh well. 

[Lscott]

Well I signed up for the $60 2 year subscription. I'll see how it goes.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

[wrci350]

22 hours ago, WRKC935 said:

That being said, the forums kn RR are like the wild wild west of the radio world.  There are a number of people that will post total BS in order to bump their post count.  That or they truly think the know what they are talking about and have it all wrong.  And there is little point in correcting them as they are convinced they are right and will argue the dumbest points.  But the nonsense on there is good for a laugh at times.

Sorry but this made me laugh.  Have you ever read the QRZ forums?  Or the ones here?  

Actually now that I think about it, I *have* ignored a number of users on RR so maybe I don't notice as much.

[wrci350]

12 hours ago, Lscott said:

I wasn't aware there are other databases not visible to non-paying members. Those have me leaning towards shelling out the money. If I do then the 2 year subscription might be the one. There is no discount for the longer subscriptions however. Oh well. 

Actually I wasn't aware of that either; I've been a premium subscriber forever so didn't ever notice!

[WRKC935]

12 hours ago, Lscott said:

Well I signed up for the $60 2 year subscription. I'll see how it goes.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

I know you are in the same business as I am.  I will say this, specifically pertaining to my area.  The TG ID's and alias names are spot on with what the state system is using for those users. So if I need a TG ID in hex or decimal, the ones on there seem to always be right.  And with the additional access that a paid membership provides, hunting licenses for users is a bit easier with their interface than the one the FCC has and provides the meat and potatoes of the license without needing to click around to get that info.  At least it was that way the last time I was a paying member. 

 

[gortex2]

To be fair there are other communications forums that have subscription fees to access certain locations. To me some of it makes since after running websites and forums for some time. Its not cheap. On top of that some of this gets more interested parties in certain conversations. You will see more and more subscription fees as we move forward.

[WRKC935]

13 hours ago, gortex2 said:

To be fair there are other communications forums that have subscription fees to access certain locations. To me some of it makes since after running websites and forums for some time. Its not cheap. On top of that some of this gets more interested parties in certain conversations. You will see more and more subscription fees as we move forward.

Yes, this is true.  In fact I am a paying member of one. 

And a moderator.

[WRWR489]

On 12/28/2022 at 10:42 PM, WRKC935 said:

That being said, the forums kn RR are like the wild wild west of the radio world.  There are a number of people that will post total BS in order to bump their post count.  That or they truly think the know what they are talking about and have it all wrong.  And there is little point in correcting them as they are convinced they are right and will argue the dumbest points.  But the nonsense on there is good for a laugh at times.

SAD HAMS!

[Lscott]

Saving All my Dollars.

5 hours ago, WRWR489 said:

SAD HAMS!

Seeing it’s geared towards scanner users I fail to see how that applies. 

[WRWR489]

Have you been there? It is hams that operate it and it is the ham police headquarters if you ask a question. Kevin is the only cool one there. Go ask a question about using a baofung there, the ham police user will jump on you in a heartbeat. I am a member and like the info there, but you have to step lightly there. And radio reference and the number of posts in all of is no way a scanner only forum, have you looked at the topics? thousands of posts from long wave to microwave.