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Bullet proof repeater station


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#1 6040

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:11 PM

I would like to hear what your dream bullet proof repeater station would consist of? And for the fun of it, let's consider money not an object.
Thanks
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#2 JohnE

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 06:35 PM

100w MSF 5000 tuned down, MTR 200 or 3000 also tuned down. Quantar also would have to be tuned down

Kenwood TKR 850 or 851 w/Cresend or TPL amp.

hard line, size site dependent

antenna Commander Tech 1151 or 455 again site dependent.

main site would be the new 432 park ave

backup site Shearson Lehman building in jersey city


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#3 rpurchases10

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 11:17 PM

JohnE is a tech master guru. and   +1 on the Quantar.   

 

I'm gonna take a guess that the Commander Tech antenna is the "new" mfg of the Super Station Master line?

 

If so, have heard nothing but great things...

 

BUT-- something to consider:

For shipping purposes --  the telewave uhf dipole antennas come in a small box and YOU supply the mast locally.

(minimum:  1-1/2"  -- galvanized steel pipe schedule 40

 --  OR --  for lighter weight installs, but about double cost:  1-1/2" sched 80 aluminum tubing.  



#4 JohnE

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 07:26 PM

 

I'm gonna take a guess that the Commander Tech antenna is the "new" mfg of the Super Station Master line?

sort of

not a big fan of exposed dipoles. I have some reliable sources telling me that comp-rod is making some really good ones that are sealed. meaning no more exposed lugs to create water intrusion problems.

22' 16bay stacked array is what one buddy of mine has been using. I still prefer the fiberglass ones to open dipoles though.


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#5 6040

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 09:57 PM

Good stuff, This is exactly what I've been wanting to hear, and thank you for your time to reply!
I've been entertaining setting up a repeater and looking for a reliable system. Truth is I do not know much about them but have researching reading up on them daily.

My idea is to start purchasing the components needed. I'd rather spend more money on better equipment than take the "economy" route and possibly be disappointed on sub par performance or rediculed with problems, even if it takes more time to acquire.

Would you care to share any advice whether it be little or a lot to a new guy trying to get started?
Thanks again
Ryan...

#6 JohnE

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 07:19 AM

location,location,location

don't cheap out on the cable or antenna. once it's done you really don't want to have to go back to change things.


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#7 kb2ztx

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 08:40 AM

Location is key. A $20,000 repeater system isn't going to do any good in a garage behind your house (well unless your on a mountain top). I have put repeaters in a shelter on a mountain with an antenna bolted to the wall that cover much better than predicted or expected but height is everything. As for repeaters I would say Quantar or the MTR2000. With that said all of my repeaters are GR1225 with good duplexers and filtering. Powered down and pushed into a expternal amp seem to be pretty solid and reasonably priced. Antenna and Feedline will be almost as important as the location. Spend the money to get the best bang for your buck so to speak, but dont skimp. I run 7/8" hardline on all my repeaters and a few are only 25' up a tower, but i also like the idea of the same parts so spares will work anyplace. 


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#8 zap

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 11:36 AM

Depends on application. I've become fond of the Simoco XD repeater's (DMR) due to their analog networking capability. They make 25W and 50W versions. If the rules change easy to setup for digital (while remaining networked and being used for analog as well). Plus, they MSRP for $2300.

Good locations are key though.

For a portable setup, I'm hoping the Hytera manpack gets cloned by Technet in some manner since I've been bugging them about it for so long.


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#9 PastorGary

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 05:51 AM

Something that was discussed recently at a Civilian Policing Instruction Class was regarding supplemental civilian communications during a local or regional disaster or long term emergency.  One of the advisors for the class mentioned a situation where an amateur volunteer group responded to a disaster scenario several years ago and brought along a 2 meter 'suitcase repeater'. Due to the heightened alert level, local Public Safety personnel saw that repeater sitting next to a van, cleared the area and sent in a bomb investigation robot to verify what it was.  This took up manpower and resources that could have been utilized elsewhere for the actual emergency.

 

IF anyone intends on using a portable repeater that will be visible to law enforcement personnel, make certain that the agency in charge of disaster coordination knows about the repeater, it's description ( and photo of it ) so no one takes the piece of equipment for a destructive device.  We live in a world of suspicion and paranoia these days, so be prepared for this eventuality by listing your portable emergency communications systems with the PD or Sheriff's office technical advisor, well before any emergency takes place in your area.



#10 WQPE714

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 03:20 PM

Something that was discussed recently at a Civilian Policing Instruction Class was regarding supplemental civilian communications during a local or regional disaster or long term emergency.  One of the advisors for the class mentioned a situation where an amateur volunteer group responded to a disaster scenario several years ago and brought along a 2 meter 'suitcase repeater'. Due to the heightened alert level, local Public Safety personnel saw that repeater sitting next to a van, cleared the area and sent in a bomb investigation robot to verify what it was.  This took up manpower and resources that could have been utilized elsewhere for the actual emergency.

 

IF anyone intends on using a portable repeater that will be visible to law enforcement personnel, make certain that the agency in charge of disaster coordination knows about the repeater, it's description ( and photo of it ) so no one takes the piece of equipment for a destructive device.  We live in a world of suspicion and paranoia these days, so be prepared for this eventuality by listing your portable emergency communications systems with the PD or Sheriff's office technical advisor, well before any emergency takes place in your area.

 

America is not the whole world. Really only a problem here. Labeling the outside of the pelican case helps, "ham callsign" repeater, plus frequency.


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#11 zap

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 08:14 PM

America is not the whole world. Really only a problem here. Labeling the outside of the pelican case helps, "ham callsign" repeater, plus frequency.

Is anyone else curious to how that worked? You need like 3 MHz offset to use flat packs on VHF...



#12 kb2ztx

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:51 AM

Is anyone else curious to how that worked? You need like 3 MHz offset to use flat packs on VHF...

 

It could have been UHF. In addition many public safety agencies have VHF units on V TAC 36 as that gives the separation needed. Our SAR team has one on V TAC 36, one on our TAC channel and one on GMRS all in pelican cases however are all labeled on the outside of the box with our team name in paint.



#13 zap

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 07:35 PM

It could have been UHF. In addition many public safety agencies have VHF units on V TAC 36 as that gives the separation needed. Our SAR team has one on V TAC 36, one on our TAC channel and one on GMRS all in pelican cases however are all labeled on the outside of the box with our team name in paint.


Yea, but he specifically said amateur and 2m.


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#14 6040

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 06:03 AM

Ok, so I get location is key, and I'm going to assume that means high, higher, and highest.
Is that your only consideration when it comes to location selection?
What if a guy can't get it on top of the SearsTower? (Exaggerating) , Can a repeater be affective say, 50-60' of the ground on top of a basic backyard Rohn tower?



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#15 zap

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 01:39 PM

Ok, so I get location is key, and I'm going to assume that means high, higher, and highest.
Is that your only consideration when it comes to location selection?
What if a guy can't get it on top of the SearsTower? (Exaggerating) , Can a repeater be affective say, 50-60' of the ground on top of a basic backyard Rohn tower?



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Yea and no. If you are trying to cover a valley/bowl, the best location is in the middle or on a small hill in the valley. GMRS is pretty much line of sight communications so we tend to design with that in mind.


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#16 6040

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 11:08 PM

name="JohnE" post="4188" timestamp="1442878507"

100w MSF 5000 tuned down, MTR 200 or 3000 also tuned down. Quantar also would have to be tuned down
Kenwood TKR 850 or 851 w/Cresend or TPL amp.
hard line, size site dependent
antenna Commander Tech 1151 or 455 again site dependent.
main site would be the new 432 park ave
backup site Shearson Lehman building in.


John, I see you are partial to 100 watt machines tuned down. Is the reasoning because of the duty cycle would be cut in half and easier on the machine? I see 25 watt quantars on ebay all day long at about 1k which is quite tempting, but leary of the performance on the lower wattage. Should I hold out for a 100 watt?

Ryan....



#17 zap

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 08:59 AM

100w MSF 5000 tuned down, MTR 200 or 3000 also tuned down. Quantar also would have to be tuned down
Kenwood TKR 850 or 851 w/Cresend or TPL amp.
hard line, size site dependent
antenna Commander Tech 1151 or 455 again site dependent.
main site would be the new 432 park ave
backup site Shearson Lehman building in.


John, I see you are partial to 100 watt machines tuned down. Is the reasoning because of the duty cycle would be cut in half and easier on the machine? I see 25 watt quantars on ebay all day long at about 1k which is quite tempting, but leary of the performance on the lower wattage. Should I hold out for a 100 watt?

Ryan....

Quantars are PS grade machines. They'll run full duty (which is rare on GMRS but not on amateur) regardless. Power sells in LMR...so generally PS agencies tend to get the most they can afford.



#18 Logan5

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 10:44 AM

Height of antenna is greatly affected by HAAT=Height above average terrain. here in Florida average terrain is not much more than 30 to 35 feet. So a 50 to 60 foot tower is good, higher is better and affects your propagation much more than power output. also important is the antenna design and quality feedline and finely tuned cans. All much more important than the actual repeater it's self for propagation.



#19 ASRM

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 06:33 PM

I would say the antenna and location are key, I had an old 25 watt Uniden repeater in the 80's, sat on the edge of a hill overlooking Peoria IL, on a 60 foot tower with 1/2 inch hardline and what made the system rock was the 12dbi/10db Sinclair omnipole. It's been years but I seem to remember that repeater where it covered was solid, but once out of range of what I would call fringe it was silent.

 

I am currently in a excellent location, much higher elevation, still on the edge of the top of the valley overlooking Peoria (but 4-5 miles away), but only 40 foot up (budget) and though I have a Vertex VXR7000, I am only running the low cost duplexer (budget) but ran 1/2 hardline and bought a Comet CA-712EFC 9dbi/7db antenna (BUDGET) and would say if I replaced the antenna and rose just 20 feet I would probably be amazed. 

 

Any rich folks looking to adopt a nice guy? 



#20 zap

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 10:14 PM

I would say the antenna and location are key, I had an old 25 watt Uniden repeater in the 80's, sat on the edge of a hill overlooking Peoria IL, on a 60 foot tower with 1/2 inch hardline and what made the system rock was the 12dbi/10db Sinclair omnipole. It's been years but I seem to remember that repeater where it covered was solid, but once out of range of what I would call fringe it was silent.

I am currently in a excellent location, much higher elevation, still on the edge of the top of the valley overlooking Peoria (but 4-5 miles away), but only 40 foot up (budget) and though I have a Vertex VXR7000, I am only running the low cost duplexer (budget) but ran 1/2 hardline and bought a Comet CA-712EFC 9dbi/7db antenna (BUDGET) and would say if I replaced the antenna and rose just 20 feet I would probably be amazed.

Any rich folks looking to adopt a nice guy?

Hark, another forum I've found you on.


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