Wouxon KG-1000 repeater build

[WRMN374]

So I have my radios hooked up as a repeater. I set the RPT-RX to a specific tone on one radio. I set the T-W-RPT to a specific tone for the other radio. I set my Wouxon KG-805 to repeater channel along with my baofeng HT's. Everything is transmitting and receiving on my end with all my HT's. However, I cannot receive or transmit with my friends. 

I used the TSQL setting on chirp to be able to enable both CTCSS and RTCSS tones on the baofeng. But I can't transmit or receive with anyone outside of my own radios. What did I miss? SWR meter is at 1.01, 36.44W, and now I'm getting static after transmission.

[WRUU653]

Is the input tone the same as the output on the repeater? 

[gortex2]

Duplexer ? Antenna ? Feedline ? There is alot more than plugging a cable in and saying you have a repeater. How far away are they ? 

[WRMN374]

Yes, input and output are the same tone for repeater.

[WRMN374]

10 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Duplexer ? Antenna ? Feedline ? There is alot more than plugging a cable in and saying you have a repeater. How far away are they ? 

I realize there's more involved than just plugging in cables. The SWR meter is 1.01, and 36.44 watts. The duplexer is an XLT, and the wires from the radios are LMR-400. The small gmrs antenna is a test. My friends are 8-10 miles away, and I'm on top of a hill.

[gortex2]

How long is the cable to the antenna ? What is a small gmrs antenna ? 

[WRMN374]

Nagoya UT-72G high gain magnet mount. I put a cookie sheet under it to ground. The cable is 10ft long. This is just a test setup, but this is my Achilles's heel.

[gortex2]

Well that's your issue. You need a true base station antenna and feedline if you expect more than a couple miles. A laird FG4503 or 4507 would be ideal with some good feedline. 

[Sshannon]

2 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Well that's your issue. You need a true base station antenna and feedline if you expect more than a couple miles. A laird FG4503 or 4507 would be ideal with some good feedline. 

There’s no doubt that a “true base station antenna and feedline” is better for a full time repeater, but I wouldn’t be so quick to declare “Well, that’s your issue.”

The losses through 10 feet of LMR400 aren’t enough to cause this problem and a decent mobile antenna can be expected to transmit and receive just as far on a repeater as they do on a mobile radio. 

The O.P. really needs to rule out other things before investing money in hardline and a Laird antenna.  He might spend quite a bit of money trying to build your concept of a repeater, only to find that his friends have a wrong setting somewhere. He already said this is a test setup; let’s help him get as much out of the test as possible before sending him back to the store. 

13 hours ago, WRMN374 said:

Nagoya UT-72G high gain magnet mount. I put a cookie sheet under it to ground. The cable is 10ft long. This is just a test setup, but this is my Achilles's heel.

@WRMN374 Are your friends able to communicate when they get closer? Can you loan them your handheld radios and have them see how far away they can get before they no longer make contact?  If it’s just a matter of range, then @gortex2 may be correct, that it’s a matter of not getting enough signal out, but if that is the case they should have no problem hearing you when they’re closer.

Let’s take the repeater configuration out of the picture for just a second. If you clear the tones and use a simplex frequency can you contact your friends using one KG1000 as a mobile/base station from your location? I would make sure that you can do that before adding the complexity of a repeater.  

Where is your antenna and cookie sheet located?  Is it up on the roof or on a mast outside or do you have it in the house?

Notarubicon (@OffRoaderX) recently released a really good video that illustrates the value of a good antenna compared to adding more power that you might find interesting.

[gortex2]

A 10' cable means the antenna is 10' from a CCR radio. Most likely that tx power is desencing the RX radio already before you even worry about a signal coming from a weak location. Depending on how the duplexer is tuned it may be even worse. I guess if the radio are in a steel box to eliminate any local decense maybe a TX antenna 10' away would be fine but I'm guessing thats most of the issue. 

I guess a test the OP could do is key up and test on the TX radio and make sure the RX radio see's no activity or ground level come up on the meter. I suspect he will see RF on it at that distance. 

[Sshannon]

On 1/15/2023 at 11:39 AM, gortex2 said:

A 10' cable means the antenna is 10' from a CCR radio. Most likely that tx power is desencing the RX radio already before you even worry about a signal coming from a weak location. Depending on how the duplexer is tuned it may be even worse. I guess if the radio are in a steel box to eliminate any local decense maybe a TX antenna 10' away would be fine but I'm guessing thats most of the issue. 

I guess a test the OP could do is key up and test on the TX radio and make sure the RX radio see's no activity or ground level come up on the meter. I suspect he will see RF on it at that distance. 

If de-sensing was the problem, he wouldn't be able to use the repeater from his KG805, would he?  He's only having problems with his friends trying to use his repeater.

[WRMN374]

Yes, the Nagoya UT-72G antenna came with a permanent 10' cable, and is in the house. The LMR-400 are jumpers from duplexer to radios. Could be the antenna, radios being too close causing desencing sounds possible too. We actually had a test yesterday. My radios and repeater were all in sync. My friend got as close to a mile from repeater, and no TX or RX. He said his radio settings have been changed.  I've offered my friends to take my radios to test repeater, but no one has yet. Could WIFI box cause interference?

I went to the other band, so I could transmit like a base station. They had already turned radio off, so I couldn't test.

What if I had the repeater on, and took my HT's for a ride? That would be an acceptable test also correct?

[gortex2]

20 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

If de-sensing was the problem, he wouldn't be able to use the repeater from his KG805, would he?  He's only having problems with his friends trying to use his repeater.

Close by he could as he explains. More RF less desense. Thats normal. But now get in fringe area and no workie. With no test equipment its hard to say. I have tested repeaters for desense and seen 0 to 40 db desense. All depends on frequencies, duplexers, tuning and equipment. 

@WRMN374 If your antenna and repeater are both inside your not going to talk much further than you will on a single radio. What is your expectation that you want to accomplish ? You need to determine what you want to accomplish then design it to cover that. Take all the repeater stuff apart and use simplex to an antenna to your friends. Until you can reach them with a single antenna and single radio a repeater isn't going to work. I would venture to guess a mile is a good shot from inside the house with a handheld in the field. 

There are tons of threads on this site to search for information.