"Mobile Unit" Search

[WRVG593]

Beware sad hams, this is a theoretical post and for "speculation". 

So I'm looking for the unicorn. The INEXPENSIVE/CHEAP (big one there), 100 Watt, Dual band VHF/UHF radio. If I wanted to look for 5 seconds, and pick the most expensive option I found, I would have stopped at the Yaesu ftdx101d. But I'm not ashamed to used cheap Chinese crap. I'm not looking to spend $3500. I'm looking more 130-400. For watts, I know it's realistically more 60/70- 100, not a real 100. Dual band is preferable. But UHF is more important. 

Thank you for all advice given. I know GMRS is 50 watts max. I know whatever it is I'm looking for isn't a GMRS radio. I know what I'm looking for classifies as a ham radio. Please sad hams, I've already taken the beating! Thank yall!

[SteveShannon]

https://www.qytradio.com/vhf-uhf-75-55-watts-dual-band-mobile-ham-radio_p13.html

 

[Lscott]

7 hours ago, WRVG593 said:

Beware sad hams, this is a theoretical post and for "speculation". 

So I'm looking for the unicorn. The INEXPENSIVE/CHEAP (big one there), 100 Watt, Dual band VHF/UHF radio. If I wanted to look for 5 seconds, and pick the most expensive option I found, I would have stopped at the Yaesu ftdx101d. But I'm not ashamed to used cheap Chinese crap. I'm not looking to spend $3500. I'm looking more 130-400. For watts, I know it's realistically more 60/70- 100, not a real 100. Dual band is preferable. But UHF is more important. 

Thank you for all advice given. I know GMRS is 50 watts max. I know whatever it is I'm looking for isn't a GMRS radio. I know what I'm looking for classifies as a ham radio. Please sad hams, I've already taken the beating! Thank yall!

Since this is just "theoretical post and for speculation" and Ham related. For GMRS I'm sure you're well aware of the rules so it's up to you what you do.

I'm not aware of any "Ham" single or dual band radios for VHF/UHF that will do 100 watts. The most common power levels are 40 to 50 watts, with UHF generally being the lower of the two. Now for commercial mobile radios there are some that will do 100 watts. You'll likely end up spending a huge pile of shinny coins to get one.

You might be better off getting something in the 15 to 25 watt range. You can find these at relativity affordable prices. The following is an example of one I have. While it's an analog/digital radio I didn't complain about the price, It was free, pulled out of service after a short while, never reused, and scraped off the books by the original agency that had it.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/250-nx-820ghjpg/

The lower power radio you can later add the amplifier if you find it necessary. If your operations will be primarily through repeaters that's likely all you'll need. When I first got licensed I used a dual band HT on low power running into a Mirage dual band FM amplifier, around 35 to 45 watts depending if it was UHF or VHF. Never seem to need more for repeater use operating mobile. Later I had an Icom IC-706MKIIG. I almost never ran more than 20 to 25 watts on it either.

Generating the kind of power you want at UHF isn't that easy and it's not going to be cheap.

https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/vhf-uhf-amplifiers/rf-output-maximum-power/100-watts

Most people coming to GMRS from a CB background are hung up on the power output myth, the more the better.  At VHF and more so at UHF the communications are LOS, line of sight, the radio waves don't bend around obstructions in the path very well.

To give you an idea of just how far you can reasonably expect is look at a mobile antenna on a Jeep for example up maybe 6 feet.  The range to the radio horizon, square root of antenna height above ground in feet times 1.4 gives range in miles.

sqrt(6)*1.4 =  3.4 miles

https://www.hamuniverse.com/lineofsightcalculator.html

If the other vehicle is about the same then it's the combination of both, about 6.8 miles.  Running a huge amount of power won't extend this much. Some of the other posters here have done the experiments and have come to about the same conclusion.

 

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, Sshannon said:

https://www.qytradio.com/vhf-uhf-75-55-watts-dual-band-mobile-ham-radio_p13.html

 

This is likely the same radio but with different firmware.

https://www.miklor.com/COM/Review_GMRS-50V2.php

https://www.miklor.com/COM/Review_50X2.php

The problem with most of the cheaper Chinese radios is the receiver section. They get de-sensed easy in strong RF environments and the selectivity can be poor.

Most radio users after a while will understand the receiver is what really counts. Given a choice between more power or a bullet proof receiver I would go with the better receiver.

[SteveShannon]

25 minutes ago, Lscott said:

This is likely the same radio but with different firmware.

https://www.miklor.com/COM/Review_GMRS-50V2.php

https://www.miklor.com/COM/Review_50X2.php

The problem with most of the cheaper Chinese radios is the receiver section. They get de-sensed easy in strong RF environments and the selectivity can be poor.

Most radio users after a while will understand the receiver is what really counts. Given a choice between more power or a bullet proof receiver I would go with the better receiver.

I really wasn’t recommending it. It was a theoretical response to a theoretical question.

Personally, I would go with a yaesu ftm-6000. 

[KAF6045]

9 hours ago, WRVG593 said:

So I'm looking for the unicorn. The INEXPENSIVE/CHEAP (big one there), 100 Watt, Dual band VHF/UHF radio. If I wanted to look for 5 seconds, and pick the most expensive option I found, I would have stopped at the Yaesu ftdx101d. But I'm not ashamed to used cheap Chinese crap. I'm not looking to spend $3500. I'm looking more 130-400. For watts, I know it's realistically more 60/70- 100, not a real 100. Dual band is preferable. But UHF is more important.

Most units that exceed 50W on VHF will be HF/6/2m/70cm rigs -- mostly desktop stations, not mobiles (the discontinued Kenwood TS-2000 did come with a mobile mounting bracket, but you'll either need a camper-van conversion to mount it in the back, or rip out the front the passenger seat as the unit is the size of the seat cushion). Even then, the 70cm (UHF) output is typically 50-80% that of the 2m (VHF) output [50W vs 100W, 40W vs 50W] -- and there is no assurance that 2m operates at 100W. 100W tends to be reserved for the HF/6m range.

[WRKC935]

I would go right to a Kenwood 790H / 890H dual brick setup with a single head and call it good.

These are FM only commercial radios that would of course be limited by programming and would NOT have a VFO.

You really didn't mention what you are planning to do with the radios.  This would be my option for a vehicle setup. 

Obviously if you are needing SSB and satellite functionality, this is NOT the way to go.  If that is what you are looking for I would find an ICOM 910-H.  That will get you 1.2Ghx as well. 

I think my satellite rig is a Yaesu 891, but don't hold me to that.  I am still getting the antenna system built for satellite work so I am not in front of the radio at all yet.  I do know it's all band and all mode with satellite functionality (dual tracking VFO's for each band for dopler shift)

 

 

And BTW,,, not all that sad.  Weird and a bit pissed off, but never sad.

 

 

[kidphc]

The theoretical/hypothetical is fine.. A little more info on the application and usage intent. Legal or illegal could help narrow down things and get you on the right track. I am a hypothetical purchaser, my wallet is thinner then me or my ambitions. So all the sites I visit have tons of things in my wish list.

BUt a Yaesu ftdx101d is going to be wasted a bit unless you contest on the HF bands. Really what it was designed for.

For instance, to be used mobile (in a car) 20w usually is enough and 50w is nice to have when you are the fringes. But trying to talk to Cali on Phone (voice) over HF 100w base station and a nice antenna setup is very helpful. With UHF/VHF yeah, you are going to be using digital over the internet.

So if you mind can you expand on the hypothetical. There is no radio that does it all, but some radios are better then others for some purposes.

 

 

[KAF6045]

The archaic (23 years) FT-100D*, with an ATAS antenna, covered HF/6m/2m/70cm with 100W on HF/6m, 50W on 2m, 20W on 70cm. If band conditions are good it could receive out-of-state HF signals while in motion -- I'll confess I don't know if the antenna was sufficient to reach back to those signals (I was less than a mile from work and didn't want to break into the on-going conversation. This was during the last solar cycle peak... 14.300 net tends to have "big operators" so might have been usable, 10m opening I'm not certain of).

* Don't know if the unit fully survived the roll-over in my Jeep Cherokee of two years ago (only 6 months older than the Yaesu unit) -- the ATAS needs a new stinger and I don't know if the screwdriver is stripped, as the retracted length put it just past the top of the roof line. Replacement rust bucket got an ICOM 5100.

[axorlov]

On 3/19/2023 at 11:29 PM, WRVG593 said:

<...> 100 Watt, Dual band VHF/UHF radio. If I wanted to look for 5 seconds, and pick the most expensive option I found, I would have stopped at the Yaesu ftdx101d

FTDX-101D can't do neither VHF nor UHF. It is certainly not a mobile, in a sense that it would not fit into single-DIN or double-DIN space. Try to look for 6 seconds, maybe?

[gortex2]

Not cheap but APX8500 is my go to for that application. The 7500 would fit the bill also but think its a unicorn for the bands you want. 

[WRVG593]

On 3/22/2023 at 1:51 AM, axorlov said:

FTDX-101D can't do neither VHF nor UHF. It is certainly not a mobile, in a sense that it would not fit into single-DIN or double-DIN space. Try to look for 6 seconds, maybe?

The point I was making was that I didn't want to spend 3000 lol

[WRVG593]

On 3/20/2023 at 8:37 AM, Sshannon said:

https://www.qytradio.com/vhf-uhf-75-55-watts-dual-band-mobile-ham-radio_p13.html

 

I bought one. Was delivered to me today. Played with it for about an hour. Power readings... more than sad. I was getting 10 watts for VHF and 7 for UHF. When will my search end? Lol. That'll be a return. I would have been okay if it dropped to 40 watts out of the 75!!! Oh well. No money lost in the end. 

[WRVG593]

On 3/22/2023 at 6:47 AM, gortex2 said:

Not cheap but APX8500 is my go to for that application. The 7500 would fit the bill also but think its a unicorn for the bands you want. 

Definitely not cheap lol. Also I may be wrong but those do not exceed 40 watts do they?

[WRVG593]

On 3/21/2023 at 8:27 AM, kidphc said:

The theoretical/hypothetical is fine.. A little more info on the application and usage intent. Legal or illegal could help narrow down things and get you on the right track. I am a hypothetical purchaser, my wallet is thinner then me or my ambitions. So all the sites I visit have tons of things in my wish list.

BUt a Yaesu ftdx101d is going to be wasted a bit unless you contest on the HF bands. Really what it was designed for.

For instance, to be used mobile (in a car) 20w usually is enough and 50w is nice to have when you are the fringes. But trying to talk to Cali on Phone (voice) over HF 100w base station and a nice antenna setup is very helpful. With UHF/VHF yeah, you are going to be using digital over the internet.

So if you mind can you expand on the hypothetical. There is no radio that does it all, but some radios are better then others for some purposes.

 

 

My hypothetical is a radio that transmits at least 50 watts on 144-154 mhz, and 50 watts on 400-470. But the problem I run into is any radio that does that (in theory) actually pushes out 7 watts on the GMRS and UHF ham spectrum and 10 watts on the VHF Ham spectrum. But I've noticed on MURS it commonly produces more power. But weirdly I've noticed the WX channels (162) is where the power is centered!!! I got 58 watts on a 50 watt radio, 28 watts on a 5 watt radio (BF UV5R) and 38 watts on a 25 watt radio! (With a dummy load of course.) But the usable bands (that I perceive as usable, being 144-148 151-154 420-450 462-467) are all completely underpowered with the exception of 151-154. I guess for the base I might wanna look into Amps instead huh? Unless you have a unicorn I'm not aware of lol! Thanks 

[SteveShannon]

12 minutes ago, WRVG593 said:

I bought one. Was delivered to me today. Played with it for about an hour. Power readings... more than sad. I was getting 10 watts for VHF and 7 for UHF. When will my search end? Lol. That'll be a return. I would have been okay if it dropped to 40 watts out of the 75!!! Oh well. No money lost in the end. 

I knew nothing about it other than that it was the highest power advertised crap imported radio directly ordered from China. Just a couple posts later I pointed out that I wasn’t recommending it. My post was intended to be a humorous response to an unrealistic question. I’m sorry you ordered it. 
 

[WRVG593]

On 3/20/2023 at 3:37 PM, WRKC935 said:

I would go right to a Kenwood 790H / 890H dual brick setup with a single head and call it good.

These are FM only commercial radios that would of course be limited by programming and would NOT have a VFO.

You really didn't mention what you are planning to do with the radios.  This would be my option for a vehicle setup. 

Obviously if you are needing SSB and satellite functionality, this is NOT the way to go.  If that is what you are looking for I would find an ICOM 910-H.  That will get you 1.2Ghx as well. 

I think my satellite rig is a Yaesu 891, but don't hold me to that.  I am still getting the antenna system built for satellite work so I am not in front of the radio at all yet.  I do know it's all band and all mode with satellite functionality (dual tracking VFO's for each band for dopler shift)

 

 

And BTW,,, not all that sad.  Weird and a bit pissed off, but never sad.

 

 

How much does a full setup usually run? What are the real power ratings? Will it say 110 watts and actually give me 30? Will it say 40w on 450-470 and actually give me 10? Lol. Just bad experiences with dual bands.

[WRVG593]

1 minute ago, Sshannon said:

I knew nothing about it other than that it was the highest power advertised crap imported radio directly ordered from China. Just a couple posts later I pointed out that I wasn’t recommending it. My post was intended to be a ridiculous response to an unrealistic question. I’m sorry you ordered it. 

Not your fault lol. I'm gonna return it. I'm just looking for the unicorn and you never know what there is lol. It's an Amazon purchase. No harm no foul. But now I know QYT is untrustworthy! 50-75w my butt! Try more 5-15w

[wayoverthere]

2 hours ago, WRVG593 said:

I bought one. Was delivered to me today. Played with it for about an hour. Power readings... more than sad. I was getting 10 watts for VHF and 7 for UHF. When will my search end? Lol. That'll be a return. I would have been okay if it dropped to 40 watts out of the 75!!! Oh well. No money lost in the end. 

That looks like the same radio that's sold as the btech 50x2, and a cousin (different firmware) to the gmrs 50x1 and 50v2...I know my 50x1 didn't hold up well (currently stabilizes at 25 watts or so on high) and another member had worse luck with the x1 and multiple x2's.

2 hours ago, WRVG593 said:

How much does a full setup usually run? What are the real power ratings? Will it say 110 watts and actually give me 30? Will it say 40w on 450-470 and actually give me 10? Lol. Just bad experiences with dual bands.

Since the Kenwood's are A, a solid brand with a good reputation, and b, designed for that range for LMR sector (which uses that frequency range natively), I'd expect them to run pretty close to the advertised power if you get a solid example (risks of used gear and all).

Edited March 27, 2023 by wayoverthere
fix typos

[WRKC935]

23 hours ago, WRVG593 said:

How much does a full setup usually run? What are the real power ratings? Will it say 110 watts and actually give me 30? Will it say 40w on 450-470 and actually give me 10? Lol. Just bad experiences with dual bands.

As mentioned... these are commercial radios.  But if you are wanting 110 watts the model numbers you what are the 790H and 890H.  These are single band radios that through special firmware can be setup in a dual brick configuration with a single control head.  Not a 'dual band' unit in a single brick / chassis. 

Motorola did the same thing with the Astro Spectra and XTL platform radios.  You could get a VHF and UHF brick, a special cable and a HHCH (hand held control head) and once you had all the firmware worked out you could run a single HHCH on dual radios.  This was a favorite of the three letter federal agencies.  I personally started down that path with a couple Astro Spectra's but the HHCH that was required was expensive at the time and I was driving a big SUV that had space for individual Series 9000 heads that I really preferred.  To do it with the XTL radios you have to locate one of those old expensive heads for the newer radio to make it work and I didn't feel the need to bother. 

I have a set of the low power Kenwood's that are paired.  It takes 3 IC's that are still available on the 3rd party market to get it running of you so desire.  But in truth, unless you have a REALLY small vehicle I would run two complete radios and call it a day. 

Unless of course you have 5 grand burning a hole in your pocket and can swing an APX 8500.  The biggest issue with any of these setups outside the 8500 is you have to build blank zones in the locations for the other radios active zones.  Meaning that you can't SCAN band to band.  You can't have multiple bands in the same zone at all.  THe 8500 allows this, and a bunch of other stuff that's uber cool like FPP (front panel programming) but it's a hard pill to swallow dropping 5 large on a hobby radio.  Even one that will tell you what channel it's on.  Yes, it will talk to you if you program it to do that.

 

[dwmitchell61]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:24 AM, Lscott said:

Since this is just "theoretical post and for speculation" and Ham related. For GMRS I'm sure you're well aware of the rules so it's up to you what you do.

I'm not aware of any "Ham" single or dual band radios for VHF/UHF that will do 100 watts. The most common power levels are 40 to 50 watts, with UHF generally being the lower of the two. Now for commercial mobile radios there are some that will do 100 watts. You'll likely end up spending a huge pile of shinny coins to get one.

You might be better off getting something in the 15 to 25 watt range. You can find these at relativity affordable prices. The following is an example of one I have. While it's an analog/digital radio I didn't complain about the price, It was free, pulled out of service after a short while, never reused, and scraped off the books by the original agency that had it.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/250-nx-820ghjpg/

The lower power radio you can later add the amplifier if you find it necessary. If your operations will be primarily through repeaters that's likely all you'll need. When I first got licensed I used a dual band HT on low power running into a Mirage dual band FM amplifier, around 35 to 45 watts depending if it was UHF or VHF. Never seem to need more for repeater use operating mobile. Later I had an Icom IC-706MKIIG. I almost never ran more than 20 to 25 watts on it either.

Generating the kind of power you want at UHF isn't that easy and it's not going to be cheap.

https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/vhf-uhf-amplifiers/rf-output-maximum-power/100-watts

Most people coming to GMRS from a CB background are hung up on the power output myth, the more the better.  At VHF and more so at UHF the communications are LOS, line of sight, the radio waves don't bend around obstructions in the path very well.

To give you an idea of just how far you can reasonably expect is look at a mobile antenna on a Jeep for example up maybe 6 feet.  The range to the radio horizon, square root of antenna height above ground in feet times 1.4 gives range in miles.

sqrt(6)*1.4 =  3.4 miles

https://www.hamuniverse.com/lineofsightcalculator.html

If the other vehicle is about the same then it's the combination of both, about 6.8 miles.  Running a huge amount of power won't extend this much. Some of the other posters here have done the experiments and have come to about the same conclusion.

 

The words he speaks are true... I have a repeater 8 miles out on my HT ham radio. I can reach it using 1W loud and clear.

My "base station" putting out 40W cannot reach a repeater 26 miles out, due to a mountain between us. I can, however, reach another about the same distance because there are no hills between us.