New Install - Dual Astro XTL5000 - VHF / UHF, 110w

[marcspaz]

Well, the install isn't done yet, but I am pretty excited.  I figured I would share as I make some progress. 

I am at about 35%-40% complete after about 8.5-9 hours of labor. I guess over the next few weeks, I'll try to finish up, but it's going to be a lot of labor to finish running wires and to do some custom interior work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WRKC935]

Ha Ha... I am sitting here building my codeplugs for doing this very thing just before I called it a night and got on here for a minute. 

Only difference, I am running O5 heads on mine, but the W7 is a nice head as well.  If they would dual up with the O3 HHCH I would be rocking that setup but the firmware only supports a W3 and I ain't gonna go that route.  I ran an XTVA with a W3 for a while in the truck and just don't care for it.  It's hard to read in the day due to glare and the backlight sucks at night.  Of course now the truck is rocking an 8500 with an O7 so I ain't got many worries. 

Looks really good.  I will try to remember to post photos of the install once it's done.

 

[Lscott]

I see the radios are analog/P25. Is there any significant P25 activity around your area? The radios also have various encryption modes. Are any of those active in the two you have?

Astro XTL5000.pdf

[gortex2]

43 minutes ago, Lscott said:

I see the radios are analog/P25. Is there any significant P25 activity around your area? The radios also have various encryption modes. Are any of those active in the two you have?

Astro XTL5000.pdf 125.71 kB · 0 downloads

The XTL is capable of both P25 and encryption but only if its in the flash code and the modules are installed. I have multiple XTL mobiles for SAR that are analog only and do not support encryption. I thought @marcspaz had another post about them when he got them but can't seem to find it now. 

I know of a couple P25 repeaters in the DC area on amateur radio. One is P25NX not sure on the others. I'm normally on simplex when i zing thru that area.

[Lscott]

24 minutes ago, gortex2 said:

I know of a couple P25 repeaters in the DC area on amateur radio. One is P25NX not sure on the others. I'm normally on simplex when i zing thru that area.

The other thing I noticed is the radio uses the older IMBE codec, which I think was the standard at the time for P25. I think the newer AMBE+2 is compatible with it.  I have a few TK-5220's and TK-5320's that use the newer codec. Have you experienced any issues with communicating between radios using the two?

[WRKC935]

53 minutes ago, Lscott said:

The other thing I noticed is the radio uses the older IMBE codec, which I think was the standard at the time for P25. I think the newer AMBE+2 is compatible with it.  I have a few TK-5220's and TK-5320's that use the newer codec. Have you experienced any issues with communicating between radios using the two?

Yeah, because P25 is actually a standard there has to be backwards compatibility to some degree.  Now Phase 2 which is TDMA and not FDMA (Phase 1 standard) are not compatible with each other but a radio that is Phase 2 compliant like the APX will still operate 'Phase 1'.

I do know that the P25NX system got rolled into the p25.link system for the most part.  The guy that had P25NX folded his tent and called it quits.  Web site is gone and the Facebook group for the system was archived from what I have heard.  I have a VHF repeater on the P25.link system in central Ohio. 

 

We do have some activity on P25 here in Ohio but it seems to be niche.  There are a few of us that are active on HAM though.  As mentioned I was just building code plugs for the radios and I know there is 6 UHF repeaters locally, 2 900Mhz repeaters and 3 VHF repeaters including mine in the area.  But we are VERY well covered with repeaters of all types in Columbus and the surrounding area's.  A bunch of them were put up as analog machines years ago and have been upgraded to various formats over the years.  The one VHF machine (147.240) has been on the air a minimum of 40 years.  Had numerous radio linked voted receive sites and had at the time the most advanced controller in existence (the DR-186 PC based controller).  That entire system was converted to a quantar repeater running mixed mode with astrotac receivers linked with Cisco routers to an Astro Tac 3000 for voting.  Coverage on it is very good.  And that machine operates mixed mode analog / P25 depending on the user.

 

[marcspaz]

There is a pretty decent amount of p25 in the DC metro area. Some local Ham clubs have VHF digital repeaters up and running. 

 

The radios I have are both digital and analog, but only the VHF radio has the encryption module to support DES and AES.  

 

I'm not to interested in digital encryption... I'm more looking to use these in conventional as high power Amateur radios and for GMRS. I have low set to 25 and high set to 110.

 

I had my choice of compatible heads when I got them, but I love the old-school look of the w7, and they fit perfectly in the space above my radio bar, between the bar and roof.

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, WRKC935 said:

a radio that is Phase 2 compliant like the APX will still operate 'Phase 1'.

Unless I'm mistaken I don't know of any Ham repeater systems that use trunking and I believe Phase 2 is only for trunking systems so it's not an advantage on Ham bands. I'm not sure but I thought I read, a long while back, where it was discussed extending the P25 TDMA to conventional operation too.

I asked about the encryption since my NX-200, NX-300 and the TK-5220, TK-5320 has an optional AES/DES module available for them, which is expensive. The NX-1300DUK is only available with ARC4 as a feature license upgrade, no AES or DES. I haven't had the luck of getting a used radio with one of the modules in it yet. If any had one the owner took it out before selling the radio. I'm sort of surprised the Motorola radios seems to show up with the feature from time to time.

[gortex2]

Correct Phase 2 currently only works in trunking scenarios. Again the APX is like the XTL not all are sold with TDMA. WE have multiple SAR APX radios with FDMA only in the flash code. Our newest radios were ordered with TDMA but we are still not using it. As for encryption modules in the XTL series it was an actual module that could be removed swapped easily. Alot of folks will remove it from a radio before selling. The XTS was a board in the case and not as easy to remove or add. In the APX its a board level component (MACE Board) so all older APX will have the mace and normally included ADP/ARC4. Since 2022 if the radio does not get ordered with the $0.00 ADP option no encryption will work and requires a trip to the depot and a major cost jump from ordering with encryption.

 

[Lscott]

54 minutes ago, gortex2 said:

Correct Phase 2 currently only works in trunking scenarios. Again the APX is like the XTL not all are sold with TDMA. WE have multiple SAR APX radios with FDMA only in the flash code. Our newest radios were ordered with TDMA but we are still not using it.

I'm hoping as more systems switch over to Phase 2 for trunking the older Phase 1 radios will show up on the used market for reasonable prices. The Phase 1 radios are great for Ham use, simplex and conventional repeater operations. So far the Phase 1 radios I'm interested in are still selling used for a premium. The NXDN and DMR radios are generally selling for lower prices.

[gortex2]

Unless its an entire swap out most systems will migrate and allow phase 1 for a certain time to get folks into new stuff. Because of that you see less at good prices. You can get Type II dirt cheap now. Still if you search you can get XTL in both VHF and UHF for a couple hundred dollars with some searching. The issue is knowing the exact flashcode you need and band. 

[hfd376]

Nice install! I've stayed away from the W7 because of the programming. Do they program with the Astro P25 Mobile software and use the same cable as the newer type of xtl5000's?

[marcspaz]

1 hour ago, gortex2 said:

Unless its an entire swap out most systems will migrate and allow phase 1 for a certain time to get folks into new stuff. Because of that you see less at good prices. You can get Type II dirt cheap now. Still if you search you can get XTL in both VHF and UHF for a couple hundred dollars with some searching. The issue is knowing the exact flashcode you need and band. 

 

I have a friend who retired from the industry a few years ago.  Thankfully he got everything sorted for me.

 

1 hour ago, hfd376 said:

Nice install! I've stayed away from the W7 because of the programming. Do they program with the Astro P25 Mobile software and use the same cable as the newer type of xtl5000's?

 

Thank you!  I appreciate it.  I am using the ASTRO 25 Mobile CPS software and a USB cable to program the radios.  It's a lot easier than I originally expected.  Between the plain english field titles and the help file, I have been able to figure everything out.

 

 

[Lscott]

6 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Unless its an entire swap out most systems will migrate and allow phase 1 for a certain time to get folks into new stuff. Because of that you see less at good prices. You can get Type II dirt cheap now. Still if you search you can get XTL in both VHF and UHF for a couple hundred dollars with some searching. The issue is knowing the exact flashcode you need and band. 

Most of my stuff is Kenwood. As far as I know only the new NX-5000 series supports P25 Phase 2. All their older radios are Phase 1, including the few I have. No upgrade to Phase 2 that I know of. If somebody wants Phase 2 they have to dump their their old radios. The feature license key to enable P25 on the new radios is almost $600! It doesn’t matter if it’s an HT or mobile, same price. For DMR or NXDN conventional it’s about $40. Yeah, dirt cheap. Trunking is another feature key add-on. The price list attached is for the HT.