Why is Tennessee not connected to the GMRS Hub?

[JeffEngel]

Hello Tennessee GMRS users.

I'll be relocating to eastern Tennessee next year from Illinois. I have a great interest in GMRS and have been connected to my local repeaters- some are connected to the GMRS Hub. I'm able to connect with daisy-chained repeaters from Minnesota, Idaho, Wisconsin, Florida...why is it that none of your repeaters are connected in this way?

I sure would like to connect.

[gortex2]

Many folks don't want there repeaters connected. None of mine in NY or Virginia are connected. They are used for what they were intended for. Otherwise I pick up my cell phone. 

[JeffEngel]

No wonder Tennessee looks like North Korea on the GMRS Hub.

"Pick up your cell phone?" - LMFAO.

 

[Hoppyjr]

I didn’t even know there was such a thing possible.

[JeffEngel]

Yes, with a bit of community spirit and technical ability, just one strong repeater can connect with another repeater linked to the GMRS Hub (see blue lines), effectively enabling the entire region to transmit/receive across the broader county. Then, if other local area repeaters connect with that repeater, this creates a state-level hub system (see attached image). I connect (Chicago area) with an enabled repeater and am able to speak with GMRS operators in Idaho, Minnesota, Florida, Nevada, Georgia, etc.

This is really important, I feel, amongst the broader GMRS users to have the capability to communicate when there are national emergencies, downed cell systems, etc....would be great to communicate with like-minded people in different regions, etc.

There must be someone in your state willing to do this.

Just having the limited ability to talk to other locals about barbecue recipes, ones bursitis, or lack 'o fish in the local podunk fishing hole may be nice, but truly having the ability to reach out to beyond their respective states is an incredible ability to possess.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, JeffEngel said:

..., but truly having the ability to reach out to beyond their respective states is an incredible ability to possess.

Is that really the case ?

The more our communication and with that "news" and "entertainment" is going global, the more I doubt the benefit!

Is there really anything important or even beneficial to talk about with someone who resides in a completely different system - maybe even with incompatible norms and priorities?

I will leave you with that thought and a quote:

"We are in great haste to construct a magnetic telegraph from Maine to Texas; but Maine and Texas, it may be, have nothing important to communicate."

Walden, by Henry David Thoreau

 

[Adamdaj]

That's acceptable by Zello Right? Right now, I don't have my mobile rig set up to my Diamond X50, which will cover 440 to 470 with no hassle. I'm not too sure about VHF out of the 2m portion, but I suspect it will handle MURS Channels 151. to 155.

Plus, I'm really not too sure what is the closes GMRS repeater near me that is linked up to the network.

For mobile I have the CS 800 and CS 800D, which I know neither one of them are Part 95 E accepted. They're primarily DMR Amateur Radio, but with a Part 90 Typed Acceptances. 

[WRUU653]

1 hour ago, JeffEngel said:

Just having the limited ability to talk to other locals about barbecue recipes, ones bursitis, or lack 'o fish in the local podunk fishing hole may be nice, but truly having the ability to reach out to beyond their respective states is an incredible ability to possess.

it exist already, it's called ham. 

[gortex2]

Sorry but in the event of a disaster 90% of those links will be down. Most are on consumer internet circuits at homes with no generator. Ham is in the same boat 95% of the time. Unless its a hardened site with hardened internet it can't be relied on for anything. Again if you want to talk across multiple states pick up your cell phone or get your ham radio license. 

[gortex2]

I am very familiar with what HAM radios does, however the poster was talking about linking. My comment was the linking in ham radio would not be there either. 

His comment was -

3 hours ago, JeffEngel said:

This is really important, I feel, amongst the broader GMRS users to have the capability to communicate when there are national emergencies, downed cell systems, etc....would be great to communicate with like-minded people in different regions, etc.

In reality very little ham or GMRS stuff will be working without the cell sites or internet up in regards to linked systems. 

[Sshannon]

3 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Sorry but in the event of a disaster 90% of those links will be down. Most are on consumer internet circuits at homes with no generator. Ham is in the same boat 95% of the time. Unless its a hardened site with hardened internet it can't be relied on for anything. Again if you want to talk across multiple states pick up your cell phone or get your ham radio license. 

I agree about those links being down, but that’s just a portion of ham radio. Most of the newer digital modes are alternative means of communicating that are specifically designed to be available in the event that the internet is gone. They support email (sans internet) and sending files. 
And of course the traditional CW and phone communications have no dependencies on the internet. 
You know better. 

[quarterwave]

Isn't it interesting when people have differing opinions? :)

[WRXR374]

On 6/11/2023 at 1:34 PM, quarterwave said:

Isn't it interesting when people have differing opinions?

It's horrifying.  People can disagree with me and spread hate and disinformation???  They must be stopped to save free speech!

[WRKC935]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:24 PM, JeffEngel said:

Yes, with a bit of community spirit and technical ability, just one strong repeater can connect with another repeater linked to the GMRS Hub (see blue lines), effectively enabling the entire region to transmit/receive across the broader county. Then, if other local area repeaters connect with that repeater, this creates a state-level hub system (see attached image). I connect (Chicago area) with an enabled repeater and am able to speak with GMRS operators in Idaho, Minnesota, Florida, Nevada, Georgia, etc.

This is really important, I feel, amongst the broader GMRS users to have the capability to communicate when there are national emergencies, downed cell systems, etc....would be great to communicate with like-minded people in different regions, etc.

There must be someone in your state willing to do this.

Just having the limited ability to talk to other locals about barbecue recipes, ones bursitis, or lack 'o fish in the local podunk fishing hole may be nice, but truly having the ability to reach out to beyond their respective states is an incredible ability to possess.

Well, while you seem to have some understanding of this from a high level, the repeaters have little to do with it.  The linking happens at an IP level across the Internet, not RF site to RF site. 

Tenn, does actually have some linked GMRS repeaters but not on the MyGMRS system.  They run a private system that I know for sure exists in the Gatlinburg /Pigeon Forge area at least and extends into two neighboring states.  

That being said, there is nothing restricting you from putting up your own repeater and linking it to the My GMRS system from where ever you land in Tenn.  But, Tenn may NOT be considered a "MidWest" state and you may find out that the system fathers prefer you link to one of the eastern hubs and not 169.  But that is not my call.  Just a reminder before you go put a bunch of money down on a repeater system to find out you can't put it on MidWest.  reason I bring that up is you specifically posted the linked "MidWest" repeaters on your attached photo. 

I would discuss with the major players of the MidWest system Your intentions prior to committing to purchase of equipment. 

I am trying to grow Ohio currently.  I am actively hunting sites to install equipment on and look to put up at least two more repeaters in the central Ohio area myself this year.  That being said, this is not an activity for those that are not well versed in radio communications equipment and the support of it. 

I work as a commercial radio tech.  GMRS and Ham radio are my hobbies.  But I can speak from first hand experience that finding assistance for repeater site support and equipment repair and maintenance if you can't do it your self to run right around 100 to 150 dollars an hour for that service.   That is going to be a pretty consistent number.  If you find a tower site and are required to have professionals (most always the case) do the climbing and installation of an antenna system.  That cost can easily run 4 to 6 thousand dollars for a single days work.  And we haven't talked about the cost of antenna's, feed line, duplexers, a repeater or any of the other costs involved including a mandatory requirement for an Internet connection at the site for the actual link. 

And the state to state, town to town communications that you see as being such a wonderful thing is only as good as the ISP level of service at your site and the site you are linked to.  If either are down fro any reason, you will be down until the Internet service is restored.

 

[RayP]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:24 PM, JeffEngel said:

Yes, with a bit of community spirit and technical ability, just one strong repeater can connect with another repeater linked to the GMRS Hub (see blue lines), effectively enabling the entire region to transmit/receive across the broader county. Then, if other local area repeaters connect with that repeater, this creates a state-level hub system (see attached image). I connect (Chicago area) with an enabled repeater and am able to speak with GMRS operators in Idaho, Minnesota, Florida, Nevada, Georgia, etc.

This is really important, I feel, amongst the broader GMRS users to have the capability to communicate when there are national emergencies, downed cell systems, etc....would be great to communicate with like-minded people in different regions, etc.

There must be someone in your state willing to do this.

Just having the limited ability to talk to other locals about barbecue recipes, ones bursitis, or lack 'o fish in the local podunk fishing hole may be nice, but truly having the ability to reach out to beyond their respective states is an incredible ability to possess.

Never mind that other users in a local area of a linked repeater might want to try and communicate using 50W simplex or via a repater but multiple or all (of the eight available) 50W/repeater channels are clogged up with the same people, having the same conversation about raising chickens, fishing, cooking beans, or whatever.  This is a waste of scarce available spectrum and terrible stewardship of the available channels for GMRS.

[WRKC935]

On 7/17/2023 at 9:51 AM, RayP said:

Never mind that other users in a local area of a linked repeater might want to try and communicate using 50W simplex or via a repater but multiple or all (of the eight available) 50W/repeater channels are clogged up with the same people, having the same conversation about raising chickens, fishing, cooking beans, or whatever.  This is a waste of scarce available spectrum and terrible stewardship of the available channels for GMRS.

OK, and where is that happening exactly?  Certainly not on the MidWest system, or the MYGMRS system for that matter since that is specifically watched for and not condoned.  Now, true simulcast would be nice on GMRS. Where the same frequency pair is used at multiple overlapping sites to provide coverage to a larger area without taking up additional frequency pairs.   It's also quite expensive, requiring voters, simulcast audio controls that are GPS disciplined to enable the ability for it to work.  Not to mention that EVERY repeater on the system would need to match exactly, same model and even firmware so the delay internally to the repeater would all match. 

Yes, that's possible, yes it works, and I have personally done it with public safety radio system on VHF / UHF and 800 Mhz.  But again, it ain't even close to being cheap. 

I run two repeaters.  One is linked and the other is NOT linked.  Reason for the second repeater is simple.  It allows locals to chat without tying up repeaters in 4 to 6 states for a conversation that is happening in the coverage area of my single repeater.  The repeaters are all on the same antenna system and run the same power levels so the coverage is a dead on match.  These three antenna's (one receive and two transmit) have a total of 3 GMRS repeaters and a UHF ham repeater currently.  There will be an amateur radio packet data repeater added later this year.  But since I have a large coverage footprint, I of course run all my GMRS repeaters as OPEN repeaters for all to use that have a license to access them.  This keeps folks from needing to spend time and a lot of money to put up a repeater, but also leaves open pairs if they want to do so.

 

[RayP]

It happens in a lot of places.  Recently, on another site, I was reading about a guy in Georgia who was paying $150/month for a primo GMRS repeater site so he could communicate with his family.  He had the misfortune to be located where all eight pairs were clogged with repeaters that were part of a linked, mega wompus, system.  He noted that for large chunks of the day, all eight pairs carried the same people, having the same conversations, about the same thing.  IMHO, this goes against the original intent of Class A/GMRS and is just wrong.  In my area, two repeaters are linked to a four repeater system.  For the most part, it isn't too bad except for Sunday evenings when they are tied up with an inane regional or national net, or the occasional needy sounding guy mumbling on and on in broken English in the next state.  Then you add another guy piping in drivel from all over the country with the possibility of adding "nodes" to clog up other 50W simplex/repeater channels and soon you have a big, unnecessary, cacaphony, tying up those few pairs for people wanting to utilize them for local comms.  It just isn't necessary.

If you are the only networked repeater in your area then Kudos for putting up a stand-alone for local comms.  

 

I don't believe I mentioned simulcasted repeaters but it did cross my mind.  I am fully aware of how expensive they are and how tight tolerances have to be, therefore I did not mention it.  It just gets aggravating that most people I hear talking about putting up a repeater seem heck bent on either linking to other repeaters in their area or linking to a network, apparently just to keep noise going across the frequency, and not caring that they hinder people trying to use GMRS for its original intended use of local area communication.

[WRKC935]

On 7/19/2023 at 2:42 PM, RayP said:

I don't believe I mentioned simulcasted repeaters but it did cross my mind.  I am fully aware of how expensive they are and how tight tolerances have to be, therefore I did not mention it.  It just gets aggravating that most people I hear talking about putting up a repeater seem heck bent on either linking to other repeaters in their area or linking to a network, apparently just to keep noise going across the frequency, and not caring that they hinder people trying to use GMRS for its original intended use of local area communication.

Oh I am fully aware of how simulcast works.  I am the specialist for design and implementation of such systems for the company I work for.  I have built out, reworked and do ongoing support on several of them for public safety.  I have designed several more systems that were implemented by our other shops or were too expensive for the client and weren't built out.  But yeah, I am fully aware of the requirements.

And I doubt that we are ever going to see a large (greater than 3 site) simulcast GMRS system.  The cost is too great to pull it off.  And 'free' site locations are never going to be in the needed location for the system to operate correctly and have the correct overlap of coverage.  So you're gonna need to go on paid sites if they exist in the window they need to be in, or erect towers in those location windows which is gonna be a minimum of 75K per site before you start looking at the cost of equipment. 

My stuff all used channel banks that had T-1 interface between the sites and microwave links that provided that. 

I have looked at it at length.  Considered POSSIBLY doing a two site system... but I seriously doubt it.  And I have the channel banks and microwave gear to do it.  Hell I have the repeaters, duplexers and GPS reference gear for two sites and possibly three.  But I do all this out of  pocket.  No membership fee's or dues.  So it would all fall on me and I lack the motivation.

 

[WSAD620]

Dang !!! That turned into one helluva pissing contest !!! Lmfao !!!!! 

[WSAD620]

Can't we all, just get along ??? 

For crying in the mud!!!!!