My repeater is getting hammered - HELP!!

[taco6513]

Don't know if this was covered. If it has been please disregard.

Do you have your channel programmed into your radio for tone squelch or just squelch?

Had to change mine to tone squelch. Farmer on same channel but not on repeater 

coming on the base at the house. Changed to tone squelch, farmer is still there

my radio sees the transmission still buy unless on correct tone I no longer hear it.

Hope this helps.

WRCW870

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

Tone squelch versus squelch?!?

Not really common in GMRS as those are "pre-set" and we often do not change the squelch...

Any frequency comes with a noise carpet / base noise on the frequency / not signal at all - - the "general" squelch keeps the radio silent as long as the noise is lower than the set squelch. Outside of business and GMRS, radios have a squelch knob that you can use to change the threshold to "look" for weak signals or to quiet out raised noise levels.

Tone squelch is used so that the radio only puts out audio if the signal contains the right tone in addition to being "loud enough" to open the squelch.

Again, in GMRS we often deal with Tone only and leave squelch as is - unless we open it up with the monitor / mon function ... 

 

[Sshannon]

11 hours ago, WRXD372 said:

Not really common in GMRS as those are "pre-set" and we often do not change the squelch...

Any frequency comes with a noise carpet / base noise on the frequency / not signal at all - - the "general" squelch keeps the radio silent as long as the noise is lower than the set squelch. Outside of business and GMRS, radios have a squelch knob that you can use to change the threshold to "look" for weak signals or to quiet out raised noise levels.

Tone squelch is used so that the radio only puts out audio if the signal contains the right tone in addition to being "loud enough" to open the squelch.

Again, in GMRS we often deal with Tone only and leave squelch as is - unless we open it up with the monitor / mon function ... 

 

I would disagree that we don’t use Tone squelch a lot in GMRS.  When setting up a radio you often have a choice of “Tone” or “TSQL”.  TSQL is also referred to as “tone squelch”.

Tone in this example means that the radio transmits a tone (CTCSS or DCS) but doesn’t filter the receiver. Everything transmitted on a particular frequency will come through. The regular squelch level is then used to prevent hearing static or noise.

TSQL means that the radio receiver filters out any transmissions it receives unless they incorporate a CTCSS or DCS tone that matches their setting.

We frequently recommend that people set a repeater channel to “Tone” in order to troubleshoot an issue, but once they have figured it out it’s common to change the squelch mode to “TSQL” to prevent interruptions from other transmissions.

If neither Tone nor TSQL is chosen the transmitter doesn’t send a tone.

[WRUU653]

12 hours ago, WRXE944 said:

Tone squelch versus squelch?!?

I think to put what he is saying in another way it’s the difference between using a RX tone vs leaving the tone off. In which case you’re going to hear other traffic… as I’m typing this I see @Sshannon responding with where I was going next I also disagree that GMRS doesn’t use regular/tone squelch. I change them frequently. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sshannon said:

I would disagree that we don’t use Tone squelch a lot in GMRS.  [...]

That is not what I said (or at least tried to say. - No disagreement here:

The tone squelch vs squelch is not a common GMRS topic as 

"[...] in GMRS we often deal with Tone only and leave squelch as is - unless we open it up with the monitor / mon function ... "

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WRUU653 said:

[...]  I also disagree that GMRS doesn’t use regular/tone squelch. I change them frequently. 

This turns out to be my most misunderstood contribution ... - No disagreement here:

I tried to express that tone squelch vs squelch is not a common GMRS topic as 

"[...] in GMRS we often deal with Tone only and leave squelch as is - unless we open it up with the monitor / mon function ... "

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

Really? Tone squelch vs. Squelch is the same as Transmit Tone vs. Receive Tone?

I'm confused, but if this distinction is what can cure the OP's problem, then ignore my confusion and glad you can help him out.

@WRXE944 @Sshannon @WRUU653 -- good morning 

Let me try this again as I seem to be widely misunderstood.

Squelch in general is a gatekeeper that keeps the radio from patching the received signal to the speaker (the radio stays silent) unless a certain condition is met:

• "general" squelch - triggered by signal strength - if the signal is stronger than the threshold (an actual transmission rather than static and noise) => the audio opens and you can hear what is transmitted.
• tone squelch - triggered by a "privacy tone' - if a signal is received that includes the right tone within the transmission => the audio opens and you can hear what is transmitted.
  • "privacy tone" is the more "sexy" and marketing friendly term used for "tone squelch"

Transmit and receive tones:

• You transmit a tone so that a repeater that used tone (on the receiving end) opens up and re-transmits your signal.
• You use receive tone settings for repeaters that also transmit a tone. That helps you not to have to listen to other signals on the same frequency but only to hear the repeater output.

 

So back to my widely misunderstood post:

13 hours ago, WRXE944 said:

Tone squelch versus squelch?!?

[The discussion and manipulation of "general squelch" is] Not really common in GMRS as those are "pre-set" and we often do not change the squelch...

Any frequency comes with a noise carpet / base noise on the frequency / not signal at all - - the "general" squelch keeps the radio silent as long as the noise is lower than the set squelch. Outside of business and GMRS, radios have a squelch knob that you can use to change the threshold to "look" for weak signals or to quiet out raised noise levels.

Tone squelch is used so that the radio only puts out audio if the signal contains the right tone in addition to being "loud enough" to open the squelch.

Again, in GMRS we often deal with Tone only and leave squelch as is - unless we open it up with the monitor / mon function ... 

 

[WRUU653]

44 minutes ago, WRXE944 said:

Really? Tone squelch vs. Squelch is the same as Transmit Tone vs. Receive Tone?

I'm confused, but if this distinction is what can cure the OP's problem, then ignore my confusion and glad you can help him out.

Doesn’t the RX tone open a restricted Squelch on your radio to receive? I don’t recall saying anything about transmit vs receive tone. Now I’m confused.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

[...] Now I’m confused.

 if a thread is reaching this point, all bets are off !!!  ... HELP !!! 

 

          

 

[WRUU653]

5 minutes ago, WRXD372 said:

@WRXE944 @Sshannon @WRUU653 -- good morning 

Let me try this again as I seem to be widely misunderstood.

Squelch in general is a gatekeeper that keeps the radio from patching the received signal to the speaker (the radio stays silent) unless a certain condition is met:

• "general" squelch - triggered by signal strength - if the signal is stronger than the threshold (an actual transmission rather than static and noise) => the audio opens and you can hear what is transmitted.
• tone squelch - triggered by a "privacy tone' - if a signal is received that includes the right tone within the transmission => the audio opens and you can hear what is transmitted.
  • "privacy tone" is the more "sexy" and marketing friendly term used for "tone squelch"

Transmit and receive tones:

• You transmit a tone so that a repeater that used tone (on the receiving end) opens up and re-transmits your signal.
• You use receive tone settings for repeaters that also transmit a tone. That helps you not to have to listen to other signals on the same frequency but only to hear the repeater output.

 

So back to my widely misunderstood post:

[The discussion and manipulation of "general squelch" is] Not really common in GMRS as those are "pre-set" and we often do not change the squelch...

Any frequency comes with a noise carpet / base noise on the frequency / not signal at all - - the "general" squelch keeps the radio silent as long as the noise is lower than the set squelch. Outside of business and GMRS, radios have a squelch knob that you can use to change the threshold to "look" for weak signals or to quiet out raised noise levels.

Tone squelch is used so that the radio only puts out audio if the signal contains the right tone in addition to being "loud enough" to open the squelch.

Again, in GMRS we often deal with Tone only and leave squelch as is - unless we open it up with the monitor / mon function ... 

 

I get what you are saying now. I do occasionally change the squelch though certainly not as often as one might if there were a squelch knob. I have wished for instance that they would replace the channel knob on the KG-935 plus with a squelch knob. I only use the up and down arrows for channels and having old school squelch knob would be handy I think. I messed with dialing in the squelch a lot on the Boefeng UV-9G radios but admittedly not as much on the Wouxun. 

[WRUU653]

8 minutes ago, WRXD372 said:

 if a thread is reaching this point, all bets are off !!!  ... HELP !!! 

 

          

 

It’s like a domino effect of miss understood statements… I’m getting more coffee. 

[Guest]

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

I get what you are saying now. I do occasionally change the squelch though certainly not as often as one might if there were a squelch knob. I have wished for instance that they would replace the channel knob on the KG-935 plus with a squelch knob. I only use the up and down arrows for channels and having old school squelch knob would be handy I think. I messed with dialing in the squelch a lot on the Boefeng UV-9G radios but admittedly not as much on the Wouxun. 

Well - that might just be another of those differences between GMRS's "out of the box - plug and play" charm versus other radio services' approach to learning curves ... 

[WRUU653]

8 minutes ago, WRXD372 said:

Well - that might just be another of those differences between GMRS's "out of the box - plug and play" charm versus other radio services' approach to learning curves ... 

let’s not forget about the signal improving flash light.  
 

Actually I use this when walking the dog

Edited July 23, 2023 by WRUU653
Dog and radio use 😁

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

let’s not forget about the signal improving flash light.  
 

Actually I use this when walking the dog

 

When I first got introduced the "flash-light" function, I was wondering about the kind of user who might embrace and use such gimmick ...

.. several years onward ...

... cell phone users have become very accustomed to using the phones led as a flashlight and the phones offer easy access to that function on the lock screen. 

 

Man - was I wrong !!!     

 

[Sshannon]

1 hour ago, WRXE944 said:

Really? Tone squelch vs. Squelch is the same as Transmit Tone vs. Receive Tone?

I'm confused, but if this distinction is what can cure the OP's problem, then ignore my confusion and glad you can help him out.

No - If set to TSQL (Tone Squelch), the radio sends a tone and requires a tone to reproduce received signals. 

If set to Tone, the radio sends a tone but doesn’t require one to reproduce received signals. In this case the more traditional squelch level is used to prevent reproducing low level signals, or noise, depending on the level to which the squelch is set.

If not set to TSQL or Tone, no CTCSS or DCS tone is transmitted, and none is required.  Again the traditional squelch level is in effect. 

I hope this helps with your confusion. 

[Sshannon]

2 hours ago, WRXE944 said:

OK, I think this is "a distinction, without a difference"

ALL FM radios have squelch, required to enable one to be able to withstand listening to an unused frequency without the constant noise that would drill into their brains.

And yes, all squelches have settings so that once can fine tune it to prevent the squelch from filtering out a weakly received FM signal.

But none of that has anything to do with how repeaters use tones to:

1) Transmit Tones: to allow the repeater to distinguish which radio signals will be retransmitted by the repeater; and 

2) Receive Tones: to allow those listening to the output of the repeater to have silence when their radio is not receiving an authorized transmission from that repeater; irrespective of others using that same frequency for communications, whether simplex on the 462.xxx frequency or the output of other repeaters within receiving range also using that 462.xxx output frequency.

So, are you saying that the OP can use his non-toned "squelch setting" irrespective of turning on Tones to help eliminate his problem.

I just do not see that as a solution since his repeater has both transmit and receive tones turned on and the bubble wrap radios either have tones set on their transmission (coincidentally the same tone?) or not.

Again, if I am just confused, feel free to ignore my confusion and refocus on the OP's problem.

I’ll make it simpler yet.  I’ll put you on my ignore list. 

[Cactusboy19]

So after some investigating and testing it looks like my repeater is not using the tones programmed into it. I was able to key it up without any tones on my HT.

The repeater setup is two Moto M1225 radios connected with the ID-Omatic repeater controller.

I figure it must be a setting in the radios. 

Anyone here familiar with the settings on the M1225's? I have the software (RSS Version 4) and cables to program them, just not familiar with what all the different settings mean.

[gortex2]

If you set PL in the radio and are using the csq/pl COR line it should only repeater with PL. Its normally pin 8 or 14

 

[Cactusboy19]

I am using DCS (DPL) tones and have pin 8 set as core active low

Other settings and channels
 

[Cactusboy19]

Should I maybe have it set to PL/DPL - CSQ Detect?
Like pictured below?

[gortex2]

Yes. You need COR on PL not on carrier. The CSQ Detect option will open up on any carrier PL or not. 

[Cactusboy19]

3 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Yes. You need COR on PL not on carrier. The CSQ Detect option will open up on any carrier PL or not. 

This is how it is currently set.

[Cactusboy19]

3 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Yes. You need COR on PL not on carrier. The CSQ Detect option will open up on any carrier PL or not. 

So just to confirm I should set it to PL/DPL- CSQ Detect? and that should only allow someone who is using the correct tones to key the repeater?

Any other settings I should be looking at?

[Cactusboy19]

Also, should this change be made on the RX or TX radio, or does it matter? (can it be both)