HAM repeater bleeding onto GMRS 16?

[73blazer]

Where I live, there is basically 0 GMRS traffic. When I'm out and about in the back 40 I usually carry a radio so my wife can get me when she wants as there is sparse cell coverage here as well. Usually set to channel 16. There are no "listed" GMRS repeaters anywhere close to being in range. There used to be one, but it's long gone.

I havn't had a radio on in a few weeks, so it started sometime in the last two weeks, but yesterday when I turned mine on,  I'm hearing a linked HAM repeater on GMRS 16, the channel I usually use.  I scanned the usual HAM bands I know operate around here and it's none of them. Different people as well. They're jabbering away on it again this morning.

I've no way to identify this repeater aside from trying to record the morse beeps when someone hits it. Or I need a Marconi operator from the 1915 to identify them for me. The people talking on it are from hundreds of miles away in different directions, so I know it's some linked network. I have a few of their call signs , all HAM, but I think rather pointless to contact them.

Either it's bleeding over or someone misconfigured a repeater somewhere, or someone purposely linked HAM to a GMRS channel? I don't think that would be kosher.

I guess I need to set a radio to scan all HAM bands to see at least what HAM frequency it's coming in as, if any?

Any suggestions how to identify this channel 16 bleeder?

And why is it that every HAM operator seems to only talk about HAM equipment, radios, antennas, setups...that's all they ever talk about!

[SteveShannon]

6 minutes ago, 73blazer said:

Where I live, there is basically 0 GMRS traffic. When I'm out and about in the back 40 I usually carry a radio so my wife can get me when she wants as there is sparse cell coverage here as well. Usually set to channel 16. There are no "listed" GMRS repeaters anywhere close to being in range. There used to be one, but it's long gone.

I havn't had a radio on in a few weeks, so it started sometime in the last two weeks, but yesterday when I turned mine on,  I'm hearing a linked HAM repeater on GMRS 16, the channel I usually use.  I scanned the usual HAM bands I know operate around here and it's none of them. Different people as well.

I've no way to identify this repeater aside from trying to record the morse beeps when someone hits it. Or I need a Marconi operator from the 1915 to identify them for me. The people talking on it are from hundreds of miles away in different directions, so I know it's some linked network. I have a few of their call signs , all HAM, but I think rather pointless to contact them.

Either it's bleeding over or someone misconfigured a repeater somewhere, or someone purposely linked HAM to a GMRS channel? I don't think that would be kosher.

I guess I need to set a radio to scan all HAM bands to see at least what HAM frequency it's coming in as, if any?

Any suggestions how to identify this channel 16 bleeder?

And why is it that every HAM operator seems to only talk about HAM equipment, radios, antennas, setups...that's all they ever talk about!

Record the Morse code ID and post it here.  Someone will decode it.

[WRXB215]

9 minutes ago, 73blazer said:

that's all they ever talk about

Hams do talk about other things but yes, ham equipment is a big topic. Ham has a lot of bands and modes and therefore there is a lot to talk about when it comes to equipment.

[Lscott]

24 minutes ago, 73blazer said:

Either it's bleeding over or someone misconfigured a repeater somewhere, or someone purposely linked HAM to a GMRS channel?

Or it could simply be a Ham who setup his own GMRS repeater, just like a bunch of other people ask to do. It seems to be a common topic on this forum.

[WRYZ926]

It could be a GMRS repeater you are hearing too. Some will setup their GMRS repeaters to ID using CW (morse code). The repeater output frequency/channel for repeater channel 16 is the same as the simplex channel 16 at 462.575 MHz. 

One can normally hear GMRS repeater output traffic on simplex channels even with output tones set on the repeater.

The band plan for the amateur 70cm band is from 420.000 MHz to 450.000 MHz. So a 70cm repeater should not bleed over into the GMRS channels. And you are correct that one cannot legally link amateur band repeater with a GMRS repeater.

Please record the CW ID and post it so it can be decoded.

[WRQC527]

40 minutes ago, 73blazer said:

And why is it that every HAM operator seems to only talk about HAM equipment, radios, antennas, setups...that's all they ever talk about!

What would you like us to talk about? Is there an approved topics list? Additionally, it isn't all we talk about. This morning, on the way to work, on my repeater, we talked about yesterday's football game, breadmaking, bathroom remodels, cargo ships, appliance repair, and automotive repair, all within a 40-minute span. Not once did the subject of ham radio equipment come up. 

[73blazer]

Here's a recording of the morse. I tried some online decoders, no luck with them. It sounds like crap, lots of background noise. The HAM sites around here all come in clear as a bell on that radio. This sounds like total garbage. But the morse is fairly clear.

The online decoders I could find both said: I Ð <AS> H ' <SOS> ?

[WRQC527]

19 minutes ago, 73blazer said:

Here's a recording of the morse. I tried some online decoders, no luck with them. It sounds like crap, lots of background noise. The HAM sites around here all come in clear as a bell on that radio. This sounds like total garbage. But the morse is fairly clear.

The online decoders I could find both said: I Ð <AS> H ' <SOS> ?

 

Sounds like WRHW499, a GMRS call from Michigan.

[73blazer]

50 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

What would you like us to talk about? Is there an approved topics list? Additionally, it isn't all we talk about. This morning, on the way to work, on my repeater, we talked about yesterday's football game, breadmaking, bathroom remodels, cargo ships, appliance repair, and automotive repair, all within a 40-minute span. Not once did the subject of ham radio equipment come up. 

Sounds alot more interesting than the talk I hear around here!

Not trying to ruffle feathers. It was just an observation. You can talk about anything you want to talk about, well, I might have to report you if I start hearing any talk about Taylor Swift.

[WRQC527]

5 minutes ago, 73blazer said:

Sounds alot more interesting than the talk I hear around here!

The stuff that drives me nuts is the old men who talk about their health problems. Strokes, gout, oozing wounds, cancers, the whole gamut of issues. Totally depressing. My friends and I are very active hiking, off roading, camping, shooting, fishing, metal detecting, rockhounding, candy making, beer making, meat smoking, you name it, there's someone in our club that does it. And sometimes we even talk about radios.

[WRYZ926]

39 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

Sounds like WRHW499, a GMRS call from Michigan.

I was thinking that is was a GMRS repeater since there is enough space between 70cm frequencies and GMRS channels.

 

As far as conversations, I hear all kinds of topics on 2m, 70cm and GMRS. If I don't want to listen, I turn the dial to a different channel/frequency.

[73blazer]

If it's a GMRS repeater, then the three people talking yesterday identified with HAM call signs, I had looked them up. I'll see if I can catch some more call signs today.

[WRQC527]

1 minute ago, WRYZ926 said:

I was thinking that is was a GMRS repeater.

I slowed the playback on your recording enough so I could write down the dits and dahs then translated it. Don't be fooled into thinking I know Morse code. 

[WRQC527]

3 minutes ago, 73blazer said:

If it's a GMRS repeater, then the three people talking yesterday identified with HAM call signs, I had looked them up. I'll see if I can catch some more call signs today.

We had a GMRS guy on my 2m repeater last week so I diplomatically helped him realize he was on a ham repeater. He apologized and left. It happens, but if it's intentional and repeated, then it's an issue.

[WRYZ926]

10 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

We had a GMRS guy on my 2m repeater last week so I diplomatically helped him realize he was on a ham repeater. He apologized and left. It happens, but if it's intentional and repeated, then it's an issue.

I agree with that. Myself and others have occasionally gave the wrong call signs while on our GMRS repeater and while on our 2m and 70cm repeaters. It's going to happen now and then. Now if it is constant then there is an issue.

[73blazer]

1 hour ago, WRQC527 said:

Sounds like WRHW499, a GMRS call from Michigan.

I concur! I figured out how to slow it down in audacity and was able to write down the dots and dashes and look them up.

Interesting.So some ham guys were using it yesterday or their dual operators and just instinctively used their ham call sign.

I heard two call signs this morning, those were GMRS ones.

So that means there's a new repeater in town, and it's networked to to others! I doubt I'd be able to hit it with an HT from my heavy woods. It barely comes in.

[73blazer]

I was able to figure out the input tone.

I can hit this repeater! Barely. They say I sound like dog doo-doo. One guy told me where it is, not surprising it and me sound like crap, it's 20mi away. And I'm in heavy woods. And this is all flat land. I guess it was stood up just yesterday.

HT to HT simplex all I can get is about 1.25mi in these woods.

Anyway, mystery solved!

[WRYZ926]

You should be able to get into the repeater just fine if you can get a good base antenna up as high as you can go with good coax. 20 miles should not be a problem with a base antenna.

[WRUU653]

10 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

I agree with that. Myself and others have occasionally gave the wrong call signs while on our GMRS repeater and while on our 2m and 70cm repeaters. It's going to happen now and then. Now if it is constant then there is an issue.

If you have both licenses it’s easy enough to accidentally use the wrong call sign. I also have made this mistake before especially talking with a friend who has both licenses also and both a ham repeater and a GMRS repeater in between us. This usually is followed by razing the other for the faux pas.

[WRYZ926]

3 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

If you have both licenses it’s easy enough to accidentally use the wrong call sign. I also have made this mistake before especially talking with a friend who has both licenses also and both a ham repeater and a GMRS repeater in between us. This usually is followed by razing the other for the faux pas.

Quite a few of us in my local club have both licenses. And whenever any of us give the wrong call sign, the rest will give the guy trouble (in fun).

[73blazer]

9 hours ago, WRYZ926 said:

You should be able to get into the repeater just fine if you can get a good base antenna up as high as you can go with good coax. 20 miles should not be a problem with a base antenna.

This isn't a few trees around a suburban house. It's heavy forest for a good few square miles around and I can count the homes on one hand. To make any significant gain, I'd need to get above the forest canopy, at least 80' . That really needs a tower. That ain't happening. The HT with the 771G antenna hits it for now as long as I'm outside. I imagine that will not be the case when foliage returns. More wattage might help, there's a few HT that do 8w now. I know some say that won't make a difference, but that has not been my experience in these woods. The 935G at 5.5w does 1.25 miles or slightly more depending, while a 4w radio barely does 1mile and the 935G at mid power (IIRC 3w?) barely does .5mi, thats all, in the woods here.

A base station with 50w would certainly get out better. It won't receive any better though. I just don't see myself as a basestation kind of guy. My wife would certainly say it's just another excuse to talk to somebody, that isn't her.

[Lscott]

29 minutes ago, 73blazer said:

My wife would certainly say it's just another excuse to talk to somebody, that isn't her.

Is that really a bad thing?

[WRZP437]

My local GMRS repeater announces its name every 15 minutes via Morse Code, so it's a nice reminder to announce your call sign so the F-C-C's doesn't start knocking on your door asking to speak to the manager or sending strongly worded letters to the effect. 

[WRPZ296]

On 2/13/2024 at 7:18 AM, 73blazer said:

This isn't a few trees around a suburban house. It's heavy forest for a good few square miles around and I can count the homes on one hand. To make any significant gain, I'd need to get above the forest canopy, at least 80' . That really needs a tower. That ain't happening. The HT with the 771G antenna hits it for now as long as I'm outside. I imagine that will not be the case when foliage returns. More wattage might help, there's a few HT that do 8w now. I know some say that won't make a difference, but that has not been my experience in these woods. The 935G at 5.5w does 1.25 miles or slightly more depending, while a 4w radio barely does 1mile and the 935G at mid power (IIRC 3w?) barely does .5mi, thats all, in the woods here.

A base station with 50w would certainly get out better. It won't receive any better though. I just don't see myself as a basestation kind of guy. My wife would certainly say it's just another excuse to talk to somebody, that isn't her.

A base station definitely would receive better. Not only are the electronics in the radio quite a bit better but; getting an antenna up as high as possible is the most important thing you can do for performance.

I have an antenna up on my roof and for kicks, a few times, I've connected it directly to one of my HT's. I can definitely attest that in my case, there's a noticeable difference in receive performance. Some of the further-out repeaters that are readable on my mobile (base) unit are garbled and useless static on the HT.

Totally get not being interested in a base setup. Lots of people prefer just HT's, nothing wrong with it! Just throwing that out there that you would in fact see an improvement in receive performance.

[WRYZ926]

One nice thing about a 25 watt or 50 watt mobile is that you can use it as a base station, in a vehicle or in a go box.