Are linked repeater systems about to be shut down?

[WRDJ205]

10 minutes ago, JoCoBrian said:

No cell service for days on end.  He called me from his land line. 

Yup.  There you go.  You figured it out.  

[JoCoBrian]

1 hour ago, GreggInFL said:

  Love it.  Yeah, I'm originally from your neck of the woods so I know the story.  And I've always been a fan of twisted pair.

Srsly, something like a solar-powered repeater can do wonders for the neighborhood in a emergency.

I don't disagree...I'd love to put up a small low power repeater to cover our neighborhood, but not sure anyone would even use it.  So I don't.  That and I'm cheap...and have no where to put it up high. 

[JoCoBrian]

1 hour ago, WRDJ205 said:

Yup.  There you go.  You figured it out.  

Figured what out.....phone rang....I said hello...he said hey...then told me about his lousy living conditions.  He had to live in his storage shed for 6 weeks waiting on construction company to put his roof back on.  He got a genset and ran a small window AC unit to keep it cool enough to sleep in.  Was a real mess. 

[WRUU653]

3 hours ago, marcspaz said:

I don't think the people who write this stuff are very smart...

 

"You cannot directly interconnect a GMRS station with the telephone network or any other network for the purpose of carrying GMRS communications,"

 

The common definitions of a network are "a group or system of interconnected people or things." and "interact with others to exchange information"

 

Two people talking on the radio creates a network... two operators talking on a repeater (using 3 radios) is a network.  They really need someone with a firm grip on the English language to help them over at the FCC, because they are failing.

I hear what you’re saying… The first thing that came to my mind was what is their definition of network and as far as I have found it changes as to what it relates to but it isn’t clearly stated by the FCC. 

 

2 hours ago, JoCoBrian said:

He called me from his land line. 

this made me smile  

[WRDJ205]

It helps to have communication options.  GMRS is another one of those options.  We tend to loose power and comms during major storms.  It’s a benefit to me to have the ability to talk to friends and family to check in them.   
 

Phone lines (cellular or hardwire) are not always an available.  
 

Repeaters can increase the range of the radios.  I have family greater than the range of a single repeater so linked ones work well for that application.  
 

 

[LeoG]

3 hours ago, MarkInTampa said:

According to the president of the GMRS Alliance club that shut down, Carl, the club has around 226 members
The club does NOT have it's own repeater system, they were provided site access to a "simulcast multicast system" as club members that was hosted by a un-named "different person or entity's" network along with a few "member repeaters" also part of the network
The "custodian" of the simulcast system got the email asking to shut down the network - NOT the club or or any of it's members, although the club president was CC'd on reply to the FCC
The email was real - the repeater custodian and the FCC agent that sent the email have a working relationship

It sounds to me like the whole network was ran by somebody else - most likely leased from regional business band radio provider with multiple sites. The custodian gets a email from his FCC buddy that said shut it down and he did before they came knocking at the door. I'm sure that GMRS doesn't pay the bills in commercial radio arena and he doesn't need to make a enemy of FCC if they want to say on the good graces of his company's governing authority. At least he got a warning.

As far as the FCC wanting a list of call signs that use the repeater, I can kinda see that as well. They were provided site access to a "simulcast multicast system" as club members and the FCC might want to send a warning letter to the users about the situation but I'd think they would get the message once the repeater network is off the air.

I sort of disagree with this.  The custodian didn't get a letter or a warning from the Ef Sea Seas.  He got an email from an employee at the Ef Sea Seas.  It is not the same thing.  He may have had a heads up on something that was going to go down but I don't think this was an official anything.

[LeoG]

19 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

I hear what you’re saying… The first thing that came to my mind was what is their definition of network and as far as I have found it changes as to what it relates to but it isn’t clearly stated by the FCC. 

 

 

And that is probably on purpose.  Give a broad meaning to something to cover all aspects when you want them to and to give leeway when you choose.

That is an illegal regulation.  It needs to be very specific and broad meanings that can be interpreted many ways isn't allowed.

They do it all the time.

[SteveShannon]

4 hours ago, WRDJ205 said:

It would be nice to hear and understand issues after a natural disaster like a hurricane with others in the region.  Certainly, this could be done with ham but it’s a lot less cumbersome if GMRS repeaters were linked at least locally (say 50-100ish miles).  

How are linked GMRS repeaters less cumbersome than ham radio? 

With eight repeater channels in total, and untrained users operating in panic mode on both the repeaters and on the eight simplex channels that share frequencies with those repeaters, linking GMRS repeaters, except on a prearranged published schedule like an amateur radio sked or net, could be useless.  You're better off using personal services for proximate communications and get your news from battery powered receivers capable of tuning HF and the broadcast bands.  

[WRDJ205]

Just now, SteveShannon said:

How are linked GMRS repeaters less cumbersome than ham radio? 

I was thinking along the lines of if we didn’t all have Ham radio licenses.  

[WRDJ205]

But I understand, emergency use, etc, may not be an issue with licensing. 

[SteveShannon]

4 minutes ago, WRDJ205 said:

I was thinking along the lines of if we didn’t all have Ham radio licenses.  

I can understand that, but it really is easy to get a technician license. Then the eight channel limit is a thing of the past.

[WRDJ205]

1 minute ago, SteveShannon said:

can understand that, but it really is easy to get a technician license. Then the eight channel limit is a thing of the past.

Haha, I’m not the limiting factor in this situation.   But I see your point.  

[gortex2]

Not sure why you think GMRS in an emergency is better than cell or ham. First off 99% of the linked repeaters are using hot spots on cellular or a ethernet service from your local spectrum, comcast verizon company. If its down for you its down for the repeater also. Secondly i would venture 75% if not more of the repeaters listed on mygmrs are not on any emergency power. I know there are a few and ones done very well but most are far from that. to be honest HAM is not far behind. Yes alot of HAM stuff is in a state, county, local agency shelter at times with generator backup but the internet linking is still like everyon else. In the past a true land line is what alwasy gets thru. With folks relying on Voip home phones those are down also. I'm glad I still live where we can get copper phone lines to a house. 

Anyway back to topic. I've said over an over linking should go away. It was never there and for what GMRS was no need anyway. Ham guys are the ones who brought the tech to GMRS and tried to create another service. Go back to just using the radio for what it is.

[MarkInTampa]

1 hour ago, gortex2 said:

Not sure why you think GMRS in an emergency is better than cell or ham. First off 99% of the linked repeaters are using hot spots on cellular or a ethernet service from your local spectrum, comcast verizon company. If its down for you its down for the repeater also. Secondly i would venture 75% if not more of the repeaters listed on mygmrs are not on any emergency power. I know there are a few and ones done very well but most are far from that. to be honest HAM is not far behind. Yes alot of HAM stuff is in a state, county, local agency shelter at times with generator backup but the internet linking is still like everyon else. In the past a true land line is what alwasy gets thru. With folks relying on Voip home phones those are down also. I'm glad I still live where we can get copper phone lines to a house. 

Anyway back to topic. I've said over an over linking should go away. It was never there and for what GMRS was no need anyway. Ham guys are the ones who brought the tech to GMRS and tried to create another service. Go back to just using the radio for what it is.

Not all linked ham repeaters are done IP. Here in Florida we have a really nice 70cm linked network done in conjunction with and riding on DOT towers, linked via microwave. Florida is a big state and DOT runs its own fiber and microwave network.

 

 

[SvenMarbles]

4 hours ago, gortex2 said:

Not sure why you think GMRS in an emergency is better than cell or ham. First off 99% of the linked repeaters are using hot spots on cellular or a ethernet service from your local spectrum, comcast verizon company. If its down for you its down for the repeater also. Secondly i would venture 75% if not more of the repeaters listed on mygmrs are not on any emergency power. I know there are a few and ones done very well but most are far from that. to be honest HAM is not far behind. Yes alot of HAM stuff is in a state, county, local agency shelter at times with generator backup but the internet linking is still like everyon else. In the past a true land line is what alwasy gets thru. With folks relying on Voip home phones those are down also. I'm glad I still live where we can get copper phone lines to a house. 

Anyway back to topic. I've said over an over linking should go away. It was never there and for what GMRS was no need anyway. Ham guys are the ones who brought the tech to GMRS and tried to create another service. Go back to just using the radio for what it is.

 

This is pretty much my sentiment for linked GMRS repeaters.. It's antithetical to the entire point of everything. Why become accustomed to leaning on a component of the very mode of "mainline subscriber based" infrastructure that might not be intact in a disaster to tie in radio repeaters? The very first thing people need to do is completely remove the idea of very long range comms from their mind as it pertains to GMRS. It's a fallacy to think that these linked repeaters will be of any use in an instance where radio methods of communication are all that remain operational. If you think of things in terms of scale, these linked repeater systems are merely turning our GMRS radios into a big cordless phone arrangement. We possess the handsets, and the repeaters are just the phone base that are then plugged into a WIRE in the wall.... We aren't doing radio when we're doing this!! That wire which is sending the communications traffic is just flowing across the same infrastructure as everything else that we're concerned with being down or overwhelmed in a disaster. So why bother? Just to have this "chat line" for old guys? Like 90's era AOL chat rooms? Firstly, not only is it just kinda lame , but it's also generating a lot of annoying traffic on the repeater pairs around the country. I don't have the slightest bit of interest in chatting with a bunch of randos over a VOIP line, just for the sake of it..

Standalone repeaters in a metro area are at least a much more manageable entity, and frankly are enough. I'm pretty happy to use the big repeater in my area to be able to communicate across a pretty vast area in my region. It serves the UTILITY that I need it to. If people want to make phone calls, do that. I'm sure there's some VOIP ptt application or windows program that people can download to fulfill the same exercise as is being done on the linked repeaters. They can even yell out WHISKEY SIERRA BRAVO TANGO 5 2 2! While they're doing it to continue acting like they're doing a "radio thing"..

But i'm in favor of getting this off of the GMRS.

 

[JoCoBrian]

15 hours ago, WRDJ205 said:

Phone lines (cellular or hardwire) are not always an available.  

Nothing is.  It's a crapshoot when the excrement hits the rotary oscillator. 

I guess we all need to be good little Scouting America scouts and do our best to be prepared. 

Satellite phones are becoming more affordable.  I may look into getting one for emergencies. They will have the same problem as cellular if too many users are subscribed. 

 

 

[gortex2]

@MarkInTampa I'm familiar with the Florida system and there are a few county wide systems I know of across the east coast, but the point was most stuff is not done in a LMR style fashion on ham and certainly not GMRS. The ones that do exist are a great asset. But they are few and far between.