UnReachable Repeaters??

[WSCL528]

I am confused (nothing new). MYGMRS.com lists a really great repeater near me. I listened to it with my ham radio. Bought the license ordered a pair of radios for GMRS. Now I am listening to the repeater with a 30 cm (462.700 which is channel 21) ham radio until the GMRS radios arrive. Put in the CTCSS codes even the offset though I never transmitted.

So I receive the GMRS radios. One is for my mom 77 years old (dad died) she is alone in a rural area that gets patchy cell signal, not always there. Because the repeater is set up on a non dedicated repeater frequency (which is legal on the 50 watt non dedicated channels). You can not set the offset and still be able to transmit on non dedicated repeater channels, you can only listen (offset is preset in the dedicated repeater channels). My point being to contact\Use this repeater (and thousands of others) you have to use a NON FCC\GMRS compliant radio. Which is expressly against the rules. 

Am I understanding this correctly? 

Do you know what it would be like to teach a 77 year old to used a UV-5R (bump the vfo button she would never get back to the channels)? The GMRS she can just click through channels. 

[WRXP381]

Pm sent. 

[OffRoaderX]

15 minutes ago, WSCL528 said:

to contact\Use this repeater (and thousands of others) you have to use a NON FCC\GMRS compliant radio

I have never seen nor even heard of a GMRS repeater setup like this.. where can i find the listings for these thousands of other GMRS repeaters set up this way?

[WRXP381]

Got to be missing something. 

[SteveShannon]

8 hours ago, WSCL528 said:

I am confused (nothing new). MYGMRS.com lists a really great repeater near me. I listened to it with my ham radio. Bought the license ordered a pair of radios for GMRS. Now I am listening to the repeater with a 30 cm (462.700 which is channel 21) ham radio until the GMRS radios arrive. Put in the CTCSS codes even the offset though I never transmitted.

So I receive the GMRS radios. One is for my mom 77 years old (dad died) she is alone in a rural area that gets patchy cell signal, not always there. Because the repeater is set up on a non dedicated repeater frequency (which is legal on the 50 watt non dedicated channels). You can not set the offset and still be able to transmit on non dedicated repeater channels, you can only listen (offset is preset in the dedicated repeater channels). My point being to contact\Use this repeater (and thousands of others) you have to use a NON FCC\GMRS compliant radio. Which is expressly against the rules. 

Am I understanding this correctly? 

Do you know what it would be like to teach a 77 year old to used a UV-5R (bump the vfo button she would never get back to the channels)? The GMRS she can just click through channels. 

@WSCL528 You said you receive from the repeater on 462.700 MHz.  What frequency do you transmit to the repeater?  The traditional input frequency for the repeater would be 467.7000 MHz, but some repeater owners have chosen other frequencies from the eight available.

[WRXP381]

9 hours ago, WSCL528 said:

Half the repeaters listed on www.mygmrs.com are not in the 8 repeater dedicated frequencies. All three in my area are located in the 50 watt simplex channels. Yea but teaching my mom how to navigate 2 band hand held will never work. I would have just like to have known this before I bought GMRS radios that claim to be repeater friendly. Look up Seacom6 in troy NY 12180 zip code. +05.00 MHz offset,  In 141.3 out 141.3. Now have to do a return through the mail. Blah blah blah.... That is the trouble with modern day USA.... Everyone picks and choose the laws they want to obey. 

That looks like a standard repeater.  Not sure what the problem is?  Looks like a channel 21 repeater. Just program in the 21r spot and plug in your 141.3 and go for it.   Unless you have more info from the owner you haven’t posted yet. Have you reached out to the owner?  Usually they are very helpful.  

[WRXP381]

3 hours ago, Sshannon said:

but some repeater owners have chosen other frequencies from the eight available.

I’m doing that those repeaters are no longer gmrs repeaters since they don’t have the standard off set no gmrs radio would be able to reach them.  

[SteveShannon]

18 hours ago, WRXP381 said:

I’m doing that those repeaters are no longer gmrs repeaters since they don’t have the standard off set no gmrs radio would be able to reach them.  

As long as the repeater uses one of the frequencies from the main 467 MHz channels to receive and transmits on one of the main 462 MHz channels and is licensed appropriately, it is a GMRS repeater, even if it doesn’t have an offset of exactly 5.0000 MHz.  
You’re right that most “standard” GMRS radios don’t easily handle an offset that isn’t exactly 5.000 MHz but there are ways around it, especially with radios that have dual watch.

[WRXP381]

3 hours ago, Sshannon said:

As long as the repeater uses one of the frequencies from the main 467 MHz channels to receive and transmits on one of the main 462 MHz channels and is licensed appropriately, it is a GMRS repeater, even if it doesn’t have an offset of exactly 5.0000 MHz.  
You’re right that most “standard” GMRS radios don’t easily handle an offset that isn’t exactly 5.000 MHz but there are ways around it, especially with radios that have dual watch.

Wrong. Totally and completely wrong.  Because a gmrs radio MUST use a +5 off set for the repeater “channels”  And that can not be changed in a gmrs radio.  Soooo a repeater that is using anything but a +5 off set is not a gmrs repeater.  Take a look a the few Gmrs purposely built repeaters.  They are stuck with a +5 off set repeater pairs. That is why they are called repeater pairs.  On a gmrs type accepted repeater these things can not be changed.  So in this case either some one took gmrs radios like the kg1000s (or similar) or a none gmrs repeater and programmed them out side of the 8pairs. 
 

and none of this matters since the op said thousands of other repeaters are set up like this I’m very sure there is a misunderstanding about the posted repeater.  I have looked up the exact repeater he spoke about and it is a standard channel 21/21r repeater with a standard +5 off set.  I even did the easy, right thing and reached out to the owner and simply asked.  This is what the op should have done in the very first place instead of getting all upset and trashing this repeater “and 1000s of others”.  Then we also would not have wrong info being tossed around. 

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, WRXP381 said:

a gmrs radio MUST use a +5 off set for the repeater “channels”

Although they’re programmed this way, no regulation requires it.   It’s inconvenient to people that buy GMRS radios, but there are several examples within the pages of this forum of repeaters that have a non standard offset, yet comply with regulations.

[WRQC527]

1 hour ago, WRXP381 said:

the op

It looks like unless he makes a surprise appearance, the OP got disgusted and left a while ago, leaving the rest of us to debate ad nauseum. I'd like to see him come back just to see if the problem he's ranting about ever got resolved, but I'm not holding my breath.

[WRQC527]

1 hour ago, WRXP381 said:

Because a gmrs radio MUST use a +5 off set for the repeater “channels”

I'm just curious. Can you show us where this is codified?

[WRQI663]

Seems to me that a GMRS repeater must use GMRS input frequencies.....so anything else would be off frequency and not authorized.

 

 

[WRQC527]

37 minutes ago, WRQI663 said:

Seems to me that a GMRS repeater must use GMRS input frequencies.....so anything else would be off frequency and not authorized.

 

 

This is true. There are 8 repeater input frequencies and 8 repeater output frequencies. To my knowledge, after perusing FCC Part 95, there is no rule requiring a 5 Mhz offset between repeater input and output frequencies, so pairing any two of these inputs and outputs without regard to the 5 Mhz offset would be a problem for lots of GMRS radios. The OP's rant is that there are thousands of these repeaters he can't use because they have something other than 5 Mhz offsets. Or something like that, because since he left disgusted three days ago, we'll never know for sure.

[WRXP381]

39 minutes ago, WRQC527 said:

This is true. There are 8 repeater input frequencies and 8 repeater output frequencies. To my knowledge, after perusing FCC Part 95, there is no rule requiring a 5 Mhz offset between repeater input and output frequencies, so pairing any two of these inputs and outputs without regard to the 5 Mhz offset would be a problem for lots of GMRS radios. The OP's rant is that there are thousands of these repeaters he can't use because they have something other than 5 Mhz offsets. Or something like that, because since he left disgusted three days ago, we'll never know for sure.

I do know for sure since I did what he should have done and asked the repeater owner.   And yes a gmrs must have he matching pairs because that is the only way a gmrs radio can be certified so yes a repeater would have to be the same way.  Just because some guy slaps up a ham repeater with gmrs frequencies does not mean it’s legal.  Same as a guy using a uv5g.  Who cares.  But in THIS case the original op just didn’t know what he was doing. 

[WRQC527]

37 minutes ago, WRXP381 said:

a gmrs must have he matching pairs because that is the only way a gmrs radio can be certified

I'd need to see that rule. Not that it isn't there, don't get me wrong, I just need to see it. Then I'll know where to look should someone ask me. I'm just like that.

[SteveShannon]

2 hours ago, WRQC527 said:

I'd need to see that rule. Not that it isn't there, don't get me wrong, I just need to see it. Then I'll know where to look should someone ask me. I'm just like that.

No such rule exists. 

[SteveShannon]

7 hours ago, WRXP381 said:

I do know for sure since I did what he should have done and asked the repeater owner.   And yes a gmrs must have he matching pairs because that is the only way a gmrs radio can be certified so yes a repeater would have to be the same way.  Just because some guy slaps up a ham repeater with gmrs frequencies does not mean it’s legal.  Same as a guy using a uv5g.  Who cares.  But in THIS case the original op just didn’t know what he was doing. 

Well, first, only the GMRS transmitter is certified.  That’s 95.1761, parts a-e.  The regulations say nothing about certification of receivers.  https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E/section-95.1761.

Second, the FCC established channels in 95.1763, parts a-d.  According to 95.1763(a), Repeaters may only transmit on the eight channels called out in 95.1763(a) called the 462 MHz main channels.

Third, the 467 MHz main channels are established in 95.1763(c).  The limits here are a little more subtle:  467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with § 95.319(c). 
So, those eight channels are specifically reserved for transmitting to a repeater (or by the debate inspiring Fixed Stations) and their frequencies are intentionally spaced 5.000 MHz from the eight channels set aside by part a, so it’s both convenient and the convention to establish repeater pairs that take advantage of the spacing and that’s how GMRS radios are manufactured, but nothing prohibits configuring a repeater to receive on any of the 22 channels established in parts a, b, or d and no regulation that I can find prohibits transmitting through a repeater on those 22 channels. Silly maybe, maybe even useless, but not non-compliant. Think of how confusing that could get.

 

 

[WRQC527]

10 hours ago, Sshannon said:

No such rule exists. 

I know. This guy keeps making things up and I'm playing with him like I do with flat earthers and telemarketers.

[WRQI663]

Flat Earth? I saw something on a news channel report that had an "X" post stating "the Flat Earth Society has members all over the globe"

[WRQW589]

1 hour ago, WRQI663 said:

Flat Earth? I saw something on a news channel report that had an "X" post stating "the Flat Earth Society has members all over the globe"

As much as I wouldn't put it past their members to do something like this, and as much as it brings many of us pleasure to see them writhe in discovering flaws in their unsustainable conviction, that specific rumor was a hoax, and was discredited by Snopes. The beauty in the hoax is how believable it is.

 

Watch them explain the ISS, which is always at predictable locations in the sky that are easy to explain if you believe it's in a 254 mile high orbit, and impossible to explain in a way that doesn't have flaws, or require more technology than exists, in an FE model. And the fun thing is that amateur radio hobbiests can contact it, in part, by understanding its predictable orbit, and someone with a run of the mill telescope can see it moving in a trajectory that defies coherent FE explanations.

[SteveShannon]

Most of us understood that it was a joke.

[WRQC527]

17 minutes ago, WRQW589 said:

As much as I wouldn't put it past their members to do something like this, and as much as it brings many of us pleasure to see them writhe in discovering flaws in their unsustainable conviction, that specific rumor was a hoax, and was discredited by Snopes. The beauty in the hoax is how believable it is.

 

Watch them explain the ISS, which is always at predictable locations in the sky that are easy to explain if you believe it's in a 254 mile high orbit, and impossible to explain in a way that doesn't have flaws, or require more technology than exists, in an FE model. And the fun thing is that amateur radio hobbiests can contact it, in part, by understanding its predictable orbit, and someone with a run of the mill telescope can see it moving in a trajectory that defies coherent FE explanations.

I'm pretty sure flat earthers don't believe Earth is flat. They just live to engage people in endless arguments. The longer the better. The only way to beat them is not to engage.