First repeater programming

[desertbird]

I think I have an active repeater near me to test my first time use of a repeater.  I programmed my radio and get the tail kerchunk thing. I program my wifes and get same.  I turn both on, shouldn't I be able to talk to my wife's radio through that channel as a test?

[amaff]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:20 PM, desertbird said:

I think I have an active repeater near me to test my first time use of a repeater.  I programmed my radio and get the tail kerchunk thing. I program my wifes and get same.  I turn both on, shouldn't I be able to talk to my wife's radio through that channel as a test?

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Not if they're close by.

Here's a good thread on the topic w explanations.

 

[desertbird]

OK that makes sense. Is there a reason I hear the kerchunk on both?

[amaff]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:25 PM, desertbird said:

OK that makes sense. Is there a reason I hear the kerchunk on both?

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So, when your radio is transmitting, it's desensing the other radio on the receive frequency it's listening to.
When you stop transmitting, you'll get the kickback on both because now it can 'hear' again.

[desertbird]

thank you so much!!!  Maybe you can help me with one other noob question. If the tones listed are let say 371 DPL when I go to select from the list there are two 371 DCS tones. D371N and a D371I. What is different and how do I know which to use?

[Guest]

I have all my radios lined up on a desk with chargers touching. 11 HTs of different types and 2 base units.  I hear the repeater on all of them when I transmit out on any of them.  Desencing has never been an issue for me.  I’d bet you’re just to far away.  You can kerchunk a repeater but be too far away for it to pick up a voice signal. I’d drive closer and try again.  When you hear people on the repeater try again.  Ask for a radio check and introduce yourself.    What radios are you using? What antennas? How far away are you from the repeater?  How is the line of sight?  .  
 

you will not be able to talk to your wife’s radio as a test because your transmitting on 467 and she is listening on 462 

[Guest]

  On 7/25/2024 at 5:14 PM, jenksjr said:

[amaff]

Usually, unless otherwise stated, it's the "N".

They stand for "normal" and "Inverted"? I think? Don't quote me on that. But if the N doesn't work, try the I. I'm sure they're out there, but I haven't seen a GMRS repeater using an "I" tone.

[SteveShannon]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:38 PM, amaff said:

Usually, unless otherwise stated, it's the "N".

They stand for "normal" and "Inverted"? I think? Don't quote me on that. But if the N doesn't work, try the I. I'm sure they're out there, but I haven't seen a GMRS repeater using an "I" tone.

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That’s correct. They are digital codes and the I version has the bits flipped compared to the N version. They are definitely not the same. 
But DPL and DCS are two different names for the same thing. 

[amaff]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:36 PM, WRXP381 said:

I have all my radios lined up on a desk with chargers touching. 11 HTs of different types and 2 base units.  I hear the repeater on all of them when I transmit out on any of them.  Desencing has never been an issue for me. 

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I guess that must mean that the rest of us are liars

I haven't tested talking through a repeater on a handheld while listening on my mobile, but all of my H/Ts, from $18 Fegs to $100 Wouxuns do it. If they're listening on 462, and another HT is transmitting on 467 in the same room, I won't hear the transmission from the radio through the repeater on any of the other radios. I'll only get the kickback after I stop transmitting

[desertbird]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:36 PM, WRXP381 said:

I have all my radios lined up on a desk with chargers touching. 11 HTs of different types and 2 base units.  I hear the repeater on all of them when I transmit out on any of them.  Desencing has never been an issue for me.  I’d bet you’re just to far away.  You can kerchunk a repeater but be too far away for it to pick up a voice signal. I’d drive closer and try again.  When you hear people on the repeater try again.  Ask for a radio check and introduce yourself.    What radios are you using? What antennas? How far away are you from the repeater?  How is the line of sight?  .  
 

you will not be able to talk to your wife’s radio as a test because your transmitting on 467 and she is listening on 462 

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I tried to radio check. But maybe no one is listening just now. Baofeng Gm-15, AR-771 antenna, within 10 miles, Only houses in the way.

 

So I thought the repeater used the inverse of the handheld frequency.  So if both of our radios are on Rx 462.625 tx467.625 the repeater is on rx 467.625 tx 462.625 and my communication is now going through a repeater no longer simplex? 

[SteveShannon]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:50 PM, desertbird said:

I tried to radio check. But maybe no one is listening just now. Baofeng Gm-15, AR-771 antenna, within 10 miles, Only houses in the way.

 

So I thought the repeater used the inverse of the handheld frequency.  So if both of our radios are on Rx 462.625 tx467.625 the repeater is on rx 467.625 tx 462.625 and my communication is now going through a repeater no longer simplex? 

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That’s correct but you must also send the correct CTCSS tone or DCS code in order for the repeater to pass what it receives to the transmitter. 

[amaff]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:50 PM, desertbird said:

I tried to radio check. But maybe no one is listening just now. Baofeng Gm-15, AR-771 antenna, within 10 miles, Only houses in the way.

So I thought the repeater used the inverse of the handheld frequency.  So if both of our radios are on Rx 462.625 tx467.625 the repeater is on rx 467.625 tx 462.625 and my communication is now going through a repeater no longer simplex? 

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Correct, that's dulplex comms. If you want to test have your wife using it on the other side of the house or yard. Usually they just need a little bit of separation. Even if you only had 1 radio set to transmit on 467.xxx, if the other radio is listening on the appropriate *simplex* channel it'll still hear the re-transmission from repeater.

...unless it's desensing because they're too close.

[desertbird]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:53 PM, SteveShannon said:

That’s correct but you must also send the correct CTCSS tone or DCS code in order for the repeater to pass what it receives to the transmitter. 

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Here is the repeater info:

 

Here is how I sent programmed it.

 

 

[desertbird]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:54 PM, amaff said:

Correct, that's dulplex comms. If you want to test have your wife using it on the other side of the house or yard. Usually they just need a little bit of separation. Even if you only had 1 radio set to transmit on 467.xxx, if the other radio is listening on the appropriate *simplex* channel it'll still hear the re-transmission from repeater.

...unless it's desensing because they're too close.

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Thank you, I think it's that.

 

[SteveShannon]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:56 PM, desertbird said:

Here is the repeater info:

 

Here is how I sent programmed it.

 

 

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That looks right. 

[desertbird]

  On 7/25/2024 at 9:00 PM, SteveShannon said:

That looks right. 

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I think amaff is correct, i'll walk to mail box when she gets home and test it.  I use to deal with a similiar issue with drone rx and tx being too close for testing.

 

THANK YOU ALL!!!!

[SteveShannon]

  On 7/25/2024 at 9:04 PM, desertbird said:

I think amaff is correct,

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He often is!!

[nokones]

  On 7/25/2024 at 8:56 PM, desertbird said:

Here is the repeater info:

 

Here is how I sent programmed it.

 

 

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You have the W/N setting wrong. It should be set for Narrowband. The Sun City West 625 repeater is a narrowband operating repeater and the DPL Tone polarity is Normal which you have correct.

[amaff]

  On 7/25/2024 at 10:55 PM, nokones said:

You have the W/N setting wrong. It should be set for Narrowband. The Sun City West 625 repeater is a narrowband operating repeater

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Good coaching. I did not realize that was a thing, but I see it referenced in the 'notes' for the repeater.
Would that actually preclude the radio for getting through? Or would they come in over-modulated?

[nokones]

  On 7/26/2024 at 3:57 AM, amaff said:

Good coaching. I did not realize that was a thing, but I see it referenced in the 'notes' for the repeater.
Would that actually preclude the radio for getting through? Or would they come in over-modulated?

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Yes, in some parts of the modulation It definitely would cause a lot of missed syllables from the clipping of the transmitted audio.

[amaff]

What's the advantage of setting a repeater up using narrowband on a service that is primarily wideband? Other than potentially weeding out people who didn't read the notes closely enough?

[gortex2]

  On 7/26/2024 at 1:39 PM, amaff said:

What's the advantage of setting a repeater up using narrowband on a service that is primarily wideband? Other than potentially weeding out people who didn't read the notes closely enough?

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Mine are set for narrowband as my parents and I use Midlands. They work much better on narrowband than wideband. 

[amaff]

Ah, yeah I could see that with their repeater capable narrow-band only radios.

[nokones]

  On 7/26/2024 at 1:39 PM, amaff said:

What's the advantage of setting a repeater up using narrowband on a service that is primarily wideband? Other than potentially weeding out people who didn't read the notes closely enough?

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I'm not sure how that would weed out sloppy readers but it will definitely cause their transmitting audio be clipped and have missing syllables. There is nothing wrong with narrowbanding and I support it and my Part 90 license requires the freqs to be narrowband.