Kerchunking

[WSAI504]

I just installed my first GMRS mobile radio, and yes (forgive me radio gods), I have been kerchunking some of the local repeaters to see if I can reach them (but at least I do it at a time of day when there is usually no comms traffic).  Usually when I reach a repeater it sends back a 1 or 2 second transmission that ends with my squelch tail.  However, a couple of repeaters are responding (or I think it’s their response) with a really short transmission.  It’s so short that if you bat your eye you’ll miss the green light indicating receipt of a transmission.  There’s no squelch tail and really no audible transmission that I can hear, just the green light.  What causes this different kind of response from the repeater?  Do you think I’m actually hitting the repeater?

[dosw]

58 minutes ago, WSAI504 said:

I just installed my first GMRS mobile radio, and yes (forgive me radio gods), I have been kerchunking some of the local repeaters to see if I can reach them (but at least I do it at a time of day when there is usually no comms traffic).  Usually when I reach a repeater it sends back a 1 or 2 second transmission that ends with my squelch tail.  However, a couple of repeaters are responding (or I think it’s their response) with a really short transmission.  It’s so short that if you bat your eye you’ll miss the green light indicating receipt of a transmission.  There’s no squelch tail and really no audible transmission that I can hear, just the green light.  What causes this different kind of response from the repeater?  Do you think I’m actually hitting the repeater?

It's really not a big scary thing to say, "This is ABCD123 doing a radio check." And you can append to that transmission, "I've got someone else listening, so I don't need a response" or "If anyone's listening, I'm also looking for a signal report."

 

People will often respond, and usually politely, even enthusiastically. The worst that can happen is someone comes on and says, "Stay off the repeater." At that point, you cross that one off your list and move on.

 

Either way, you learn a lot more by doing a real radio check than by just kerchunking repeaters.

 

I don't rag-chew over GMRS or any other radio. I don't even rag chew on the phone. I do post too many responses in forums though.  But even so, I'm glad when I get a response telling me how my signal sounds. I've never found anyone to be rude about it.

[WRYZ926]

Hopefully you are at least giving your call signs versus just kerchunking the repeaters. It's not only rude to kerchunk but you are more likely to get a response if you say your call sign and testing.

We have one or more persons that keeps kerchunking our GMRS and 2m repeaters all of the time. Once we get enough club members together, we will find out who it is and deal with them, even if it is just a cease and desist letter for starters. It's not hard to find a person kerchunking and/or interfering with a repeater. 

[WRXR255]

12 minutes ago, WSAI504 said:

I just installed my first GMRS mobile radio, and yes (forgive me radio gods), I have been kerchunking some of the local repeaters to see if I can reach them (but at least I do it at a time of day when there is usually no comms traffic).  Usually when I reach a repeater it sends back a 1 or 2 second transmission that ends with my squelch tail.  However, a couple of repeaters are responding (or I think it’s their response) with a really short transmission.  It’s so short that if you bat your eye you’ll miss the green light indicating receipt of a transmission.  There’s no squelch tail and really no audible transmission that I can hear, just the green light.  What causes this different kind of response from the repeater?  Do you think I’m actually hitting the repeater?

You hear the tail you hit it.  Sometimes if its been silent on the channel for a bit and you kerchunk it, the repeater calls out its Ident after you break - sometimes its "off tone" so you might miss hearing it.

Sometimes, like my local repeater, it will ident on tone then repeat it off tone.  Dont ask me why, its how its set up.

Kill your RX tone and try again and see if its actually TX'ing something.

[WRXP381]

Many repeaters are set up differently by differ Owners.  It’s just the way it is. Some repeaters have an I’d time. Some have a 1,2,3 sec squelch tail and some have zero time or tail.   That really upsets the kerchunkers.  
 

  Remember just because you can kerchunk a repeater and you can hear people talking in the repeater does not mean they can hear your voice transmission.    

[BoxCar]

2 hours ago, dosw said:

It's really not a big scary thing to say, "This is ABCD123 doing a radio check."

Or "ABCD123 Testing>"

[WSAI504]

Thanks for all the replies and information.  Very much appreciate it.

[Raybestos]

Some owners of closed (owner and close associates only) repeaters will set it to zero hang time so that potential intruders do not know there is a repeater there and if they do, it makes it harder for them to hack the PL or DPL.  I understand and get their reason for doing that.

Why anyone running an open system repeater would set their hang time to zero is beyond me.  It is a total (b-word) move in my opinion.  Leaving at least a two second hang time lets users know that 1, they hit the repeater, and 2, gives them some idea how well they can hear the repeater from their present vantage point.

I was aware of at least one well-known radio dealer that set up an open system repeater with zero hang time.  Also, they required a tone to access it (good idea) but did not encode the tone on the repeater's output (dumb idea).  That meant if the end users (who frequently were their customers) would often think there was no repeater on the air when traveling through the store's area, due to zero hang time.  The lack of a tone on the output also meant if your tone decoder was turned on, you would not hear anyone responding to you.  It also meant that since your decoder had to be turned off to hear the repeater, end users potentially had to listen to static from various sources, as well as FRS kiddie talkies and the like while monitoring that repeater system.  None of these things went far towards giving a good impression of the expertise you might expect from that store's technical staff.

[OffRoaderX]

3 minutes ago, RayP said:

some owners of closed (owner and close associates only) repeaters will set it to zero hang time so that potential intruders do not know there is a repeater there and if they do, it makes it hard for them to hack the PL or DPL.

Setting the hang-time to zero has no impact whatsoever, in any way, on someone trying "hack" either the input or output tone of a repeater..

Just sayin..

[Raybestos]

As to kerchunking, I never got why some people got so bent out of shape about the occasional kerchunk.  Yes, frequent or continuous kerchunking can be annoying.  I get that.

Occasional kerchunks never bothered me, though I have known plenty (mostly hams) who got totally bent out of shape over it.

"Why do some people not spend the extra effort to identify along with the kerchunk?"  Probably because they just wanted to ascertain that the repeater was working and/or get an idea as to how well they could receive it from their present location.  They may not have wanted to get trapped in a long conversation with one of the many emotionally needy souls who sit by the radio all day, waiting for some hapless soul to identify so they can pounce on them.

[WRXP381]

1 minute ago, RayP said:

As to kerchunking, I never got why some people got so bent out of shape about the occasional kerchunk.  Yes, frequent or continuous kerchunking can be annoying.  I get that.

Occasional kerchunks never bothered me, though I have known plenty (mostly hams) who got totally bent out of shape over it.

"Why do some people not spend the extra effort to identify along with the kerchunk?"  Probably because they just wanted to ascertain that the repeater was working and/or get an idea as to how well they could receive it from their present location.  They may not have wanted to get trapped in a long conversation with one of the many emotionally needy souls who sit by the radio all day, waiting for some hapless soul to identify so they can pounce on them.

Because if 100, 200 or more people kerchunk the repeater 2xs a day that’s a lot of pointless kerchunking for no reason.  Just because you can open the squelch on the repeater does not mean the repeater can hear your voice  and by the same token just because you can here the tail come back does not mean you will be able to hear some one on the repeater.   It really is pointless.  Just as long for a radio check and say thank you and you have to go.   It’s your issue if you get stuck in a long convo about nothing.  

[Raybestos]

7 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

Setting the hang-time to zero has no impact whatsoever, in any way, on someone trying "hack" either the input or output tone of a repeater..

Just sayin..

Hi OffRoaderX!  I meant to say "harder".  I have since corrected it.  If one is determined to hack the tone, they will get it.  That is true.  If there is not much traffic on the repeater to allow for tone scan, the next way they might try hacking it is going through all possible tones to see which one keys up the repeater.  If there is no hang time, that option is pretty much off of the table.

[Raybestos]

6 minutes ago, WRXP381 said:

Because if 100, 200 or more people kerchunk the repeater 2xs a day that’s a lot of pointless kerchunking for no reason.  Just because you can open the squelch on the repeater does not mean the repeater can hear your voice  and by the same token just because you can here the tail come back does not mean you will be able to hear some one on the repeater.   It really is pointless.  Just as long for a radio check and say thank you and you have to go.   It’s your issue if you get stuck in a long convo about nothing.  

Yeah, 100, 200, or however many users ×2 or so kerchunks a day might get a bit annoying.  I have never heard that level of kerchunks from people casually checking out the system on any repeater.  The occasional malicious interference generator, I have heard do that, but that is a whole other situation.  Can you imagine 100, 200, or more pointless ID's and contacts in the same day?

[WRYZ926]

25 minutes ago, RayP said:

As to kerchunking, I never got why some people got so bent out of shape about the occasional kerchunk.  Yes, frequent or continuous kerchunking can be annoying.  I get that.

We ignore an occasional kerchunk as it really doesn't hurt anything. But when we have a person(s) repeatedly kerchunking one or more repeaters over and over, then it becomes an issue to be dealt with.

For the OP, it doesn't hurt one bit to state his call sign and testing. If someone does come back then he knows 100% that everything is working correctly. And if he doesn't want to get into a long conversation then all he has to to is say so and thank the other person for coming back to him.

[MarkInTampa]

15 hours ago, WRXP381 said:

Because if 100, 200 or more people kerchunk the repeater 2xs a day that’s a lot of pointless kerchunking for no reason.  Just because you can open the squelch on the repeater does not mean the repeater can hear your voice  and by the same token just because you can here the tail come back does not mean you will be able to hear some one on the repeater.   It really is pointless.  Just as long for a radio check and say thank you and you have to go.   It’s your issue if you get stuck in a long convo about nothing.  

What's even worse if you have folks kerchunking a repeater that is part of a networked system. They are not kerchunking one repeater but 5, 10 or however many may be part of the network. And if a remote repeater has a kerchunker they can affect a repeater in another state.

I've got repeater input frequencies in scan mode on one VFO and the output frequencies in scan on the other VFO. I can set my clock by by a local kerchucker that keys every local repeater (and one networked) at 7:30am and I hear him key on both input and output. Guess he just wants to make sure he can hit the repeaters.

[quarterwave]

1. Please say "Call Sign" Testing, rather than simply keying up. Many times someone may come back and give you a signal and audio report, but you're not asking, just testing. No harm, no foul.

2. Repeaters can be setup differently. So there is what is known as hang time, that is how long the transmitter remains on air after the COR from the receiver has dropped. Then there is tone in tail, which determines if the Tx PL/DPL tone/code is transmitted during the entire hang time, or drops off given loss of COR, even though the carrier hangs on for, say, 3 seconds. 

In public safety and commercial both, we (when I worked in radio) always set up repeaters for 3 second time, with tone in tail.

Personally, my repeater has a Zetron controller, I run 5 seconds of hang time, and tone in tail, with a beep on COR loss. Helps people know when to talk and such. I run a 100% duty cycle repeater, so the time doesn't bother me or it.  

[WRUU653]

WXYZ123 testing, no response needed.  
WXYZ123 looking for a radio check or repeater check or signal report.  
Kerchunk

Ask your repeater owner doctor which one is right for you. 
 

edit - I have the flu so my humor may be off right now

Edited August 16 by WRUU653

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, WRUU653 said:

I have the flu so my humor may be off right now

Get better soon!