Linking GMRS Repeaters

[TrikeRadio]

1 minute ago, marcspaz said:

... BUT, depending on the User population in those repeater areas, you will P!$$0ff a ton of people.  I would expect complaints to be filed.  I say this because, instead of tying up one channel for on repeater, you are going to be using 2, 3, or even possibly even 4 or more channels for a GMRS service based RF linked system.

Now, if the FCC really wanted to be hard on someone, they could call it an RF network and try to prohibit the action under the "any other network" clause, even though its not a routed network.

Very true. Yeah I was just always curious if it was possible and fit the rules. Yes, you would probably make a lot of people mad and the FCC could probably call it an "RF NETWORK" to get you... so not a good idea anyway.

[marcspaz]

@TrikeRadio Great question, BTW.  Even if we have no intent on doing it, it's always fun to try to think through stuff like that.  Sometimes, the 'what if' is very entertaining.

[TrikeRadio]

7 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

Great question, BTW.  Even if we have no intent on doing it, it's always fun to try to think through stuff like that.  Sometimes, the 'what if' is very entertaining.

From the mind of a nube GMRS user like me... LOL

[SteveShannon]

35 minutes ago, TrikeRadio said:

Oh... repeaters are not allowed to transmit on "input" frequencies?
it would not necessarily be a loop it it transmitted to the input on a different channel would it?
(Example: if repeater A takes input on 467.675 and outputs to 467.700 ... which Repeater B picks up and re-transmits to 462.700)
(if it is ok for a repeater to transmit to an input frequency)

How does it transmit to the input on a different channel and then carry the response back to the origin? If you draw a diagram mapping the connections I think you’ll see the problem. I want to transmit to repeater A and I want people on repeater A to hear my transmission.  I also want repeater B to hear my transmission and reproduce it on a channel that people can hear, right?  Then, I want to hear the people who transmit back to B

I believe it would be possible to create an RF link using GMRS frequencies but you must have the link isolated from the repeater frequencies. That could be done using Fixed Stations on the GMRS channels.  Fixed Stations are allowed to transmit and receive on either the 462 or 467 MHz Main Channels.  So you end up with two repeaters operating as repeaters and two full duplex transceivers (same as a repeater) operating as Fixed Stations, tightly beaming communications to each other for the link.

[Davichko5650]

12 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Fixed Stations are allowed to transmit and receive on either the 462 or 467 MHz Main Channels.  

Does it complicate this with the reg. (95.303) that states that fixed stations may only communicate with other fixed stations?  Always a tad fuzzy on that one...

[WRUU653]

1 minute ago, Davichko5650 said:

Does it complicate this with the reg. (95.303) that states that fixed stations may only communicate with other fixed stations?  Always a tad fuzzy on that one...

You beat me to it

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, WRUU653 said:

You beat me to it

 

3 minutes ago, Davichko5650 said:

Does it complicate this with the reg. (95.303) that states that fixed stations may only communicate with other fixed stations?  Always a tad fuzzy on that one...

Maybe.  The way I thought of this was that the connection between each repeater and a Fixed Station would be hardwired, not RF, so I don’t think it would fall under 93.303.

[Davichko5650]

32 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

 

Maybe.  The way I thought of this was that the connection between each repeater and a Fixed Station would be hardwired, not RF, so I don’t think it would fall under 93.303.

Ahhh, a "wireline control link" then as well???  Sounds like we're working on "making the impossible difficult."  (Best college course I ever took, btw)

[WQAI363]

I have been thinking about the Topic on whether it's legal or illegal to link up GMRS repeaters via commercial Telephone or Internet systems. I sincerely understand that the General Mobile Radio Service wasn't design for casual conversation as you may find on the Citizen Band Radio Service. I also understand that GMRS isn't design for Commercial Business, although it can be used for business.

Now, I can't say that I agree with the FCC's Rules and Regulations, because I have enjoyed for short while the benefit of talking with other GMRS stations. However, I got to respect the FCC's wishes and maybe someone out there will get a petition to change the Rules and Regulations.  Hey, until a petition is drafted circulated and approved for GMRS repeaters to be linked. For those that have interest in Radio Communication, but don't have a desire to take the test for an Amateur Radio License, get a CB Radio!

[WRUU653]

3 hours ago, Davichko5650 said:

Ahhh, a "wireline control link" then as well???  Sounds like we're working on "making the impossible difficult."  (Best college course I ever took, btw)

the second I read your post I could hear Mr. Hopkins in my head.

[WROM557]

GMRS repeater linking freedom

I am writing to you as a concerned citizen and a General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) operator to respectfully request your support in advocating for the reinstatement of GMRS linking, which was recently banned by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC).

Website

Petition

[Davichko5650]

1 hour ago, WROM557 said:

GMRS repeater linking freedom

I am writing to you as a concerned citizen and a General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) operator to respectfully request your support in advocating for the reinstatement of GMRS linking, which was recently banned by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC).

Website

Petition

I'm wondering what the split is on this issue? 50/50 for/against, or???   Personally I am not for Linked Repeaters so won't be visiting or signing. But I rarely use repeaters as it is, so I'm not really involved in the fight as it stands!

[WRUU653]

3 hours ago, Davichko5650 said:

I'm wondering what the split is on this issue? 50/50 for/against, or???   Personally I am not for Linked Repeaters so won't be visiting or signing. But I rarely use repeaters as it is, so I'm not really involved in the fight as it stands!

Any look at that here wouldn’t likely represent the vast amount of people that get GMRS or FRS radios and just use them for every day activities and aren’t part of a radio forum. 

[SteveShannon]

On 8/29/2024 at 1:16 PM, WRUU653 said:

Any look at that here wouldn’t likely represent the vast amount of people that get GMRS or FRS radios and just use them for every day activities and aren’t part of a radio forum. 

This!  
The vast majority of people who buy and use GMRS just want to talk to each other. Most don’t even know or care about this site or repeaters, much less linked repeaters. Whether they use repeaters or not, if they end up unable to hear each other because of chatter that’s coming from linked repeaters, they probably won’t be impressed. 

It turns out I’m not in favor of linking, but I also don’t think the FCC is handling this correctly. I don’t think the regulations amount to prohibiting linking, even though their interpretation now says so. 

[Hoppyjr]

[WQAI363]

On 8/30/2024 at 12:05 AM, Hoppyjr said:

Heck, I guess anyone can say that with just about anything. We as Radio Ent heist can certainly say this about the Topic of Radio Typed Acceptance or Certification. I will never say that I fully understand or that I agree with the FCC about what is permissible and what is prohibited, as for as equipment and uses.

 

[WSDW308]

On 8/19/2024 at 9:27 AM, CentralFloridaGMRS said:

So we asked for a clarification and we got it. I'm not happy about it either. It's never been legal, now it explains why the New York network got the heads up before they started looking at enforcing it and shut down. For me, it was just another tool. Zello will work fine all by itself keeping in contact with my New England friends. 

Pardon my limited knowledge, what is Zello? I searched but came up with some business org app as Zello.  

[OffRoaderX]

24 minutes ago, WSDW308 said:

Pardon my limited knowledge, what is Zello?

There is a free version of the app.that lets you voice-chat with anonymous men anywhere in the world. Some repeaters are also connected to Zello so you can listen and talk on them via the app on your phone.

[WRUE951]

55 minutes ago, WSDW308 said:

Pardon my limited knowledge, what is Zello? I searched but came up with some business org app as Zello.  

Don't mind Randy he is fixated on using Zello  to chat with this men friends, but Zello is basically a walkie talkie app.  Better explanation here.   https://www.tomsguide.com/us/zello-app-guide,news-25805.html

[CentralFloridaGMRS]

1 hour ago, WSDW308 said:

Pardon my limited knowledge, what is Zello? I searched but came up with some business org app as Zello.  

Zello is great and it's free. We have one for our Community because some don't want to give out phone numbers. We used it during our last Hurricane. You can create your own group and add a password. You can kick people out if they become a problem. You can also send images. it works with your internet or cell phone provider. I would stay away from the Zello Radios, however. The phone app works great

[linx]

On 8/29/2024 at 1:39 PM, SteveShannon said:

...The vast majority of people who buy and use GMRS just want to talk to each other. Most don’t even know or care about this site or repeaters, much less linked repeaters. Whether they use repeaters or not, if they end up unable to hear each other because of chatter that’s coming from linked repeaters, they probably won’t be impressed. 

It turns out I’m not in favor of linking, but I also don’t think the FCC is handling this correctly. I don’t think the regulations amount to prohibiting linking, even though their interpretation now says so. 

I am in favor of repeater linking, so long as there is not a lot of coverage overlap, and I know that is just about impossible to regulate (the FCC likely wouldn't anyway).

I setup my repeater in Kingman AZ, with hopes of setting up one in Lake Havasu, and possibly Bullhead City to be part time linked together to provide non-overlapping coverage, but I was a little late to the party. The repeater we have covers the Kingman and Golden Valley area, Bullhead can hardly get in, and Havasu is completely in the dark because of the mountains in our area.

I see this as a benefit, for myself, off-roaders, and hikers. I do volunteer SAR and I am all over the county, and when I am in range of the repeater, I am able to check in with family. People here that go off-roading or hiking will go from Havasu to Kingman to the Hualapai mountains for example (Because its much cooler in the summer), and may want to check-in with their family at home.

What I am most butthurt about is that I bought all this equipment to link repeaters, spent all that time setting it up, then the FCC clarifies the rules lol. Good thing I only bought 1 repeater and linking hardware.

[WRUE951]

22 hours ago, linx said:

What I am most butthurt about is that I bought all this equipment to link repeaters, spent all that time setting it up, then the FCC clarifies the rules lol. Good thing I only bought 1 repeater and linking hardware.

should have know better,, the rules have always been clear.. They never changed, same 'ole rules..   Put it on Ebay... Lots of UHF repeater stuff posted lately..  Good luck....   

[linx]

1 hour ago, WRUE951 said:

should have know better,, the rules have always been clear.. They never changed, same 'ole rules..   Put it on Ebay... Lots of UHF repeater stuff posted lately..  Good luck....   

It disagree, it was never clear until recently. No matter what way you put it, the internet is not a PSTN. I see the comments saying "With VoIP, there are no pstn lines anymore, VoIP is the new pstn" etc. It's simply not. They are completely different technologies. The FCC just never kept up with the changing technology and they are 30+ years late to the clarification. VoIP is older than I am, and I am more than 30 years old. Typical government speed. 

[WRUE951]

1 minute ago, linx said:

It disagree, it was never clear until recently. No matter what way you put it, the internet is not a PSTN. I see the comments saying "With VoIP, there are no pstn lines anymore, VoIP is the new pstn" etc. It's simply not. They are completely different technologies. The FCC just never kept up with the changing technology and they are 30+ years late to the clarification. VoIP is older than I am, and I am more than 30 years old. Typical government speed. 

Sorry,  can't help you..   Common sense seems to be in demand for a few..    Good luck !

[linx]

12 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

Sorry,  can't help you..   Common sense seems to be in demand for a few..    Good luck !

I do understand the rule now, but even still, whoever is writing this is awful at their job. "Or other networks" should appear directly after "telephone connection" in "Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited".