Club/Business Use

[padi189750]

I am the president and a ground searcher of a Search and Rescue group in Florida. We are attempting to utilize radio's as our primary communication as we are often in locations that do not have or has spotty wireless coverage.

My idea would be to purchase equipment to have a "mobile" repeater and have all of the radio's connect to this repeater. The concern comes with if my license alone would be significant enough to keep the repeater and/or everyone involved in the search legal or would each individual who I was working with need their own license?

I know previously there was a business GMRS license but that appears to have gone away so I don't know how to keep everyone covered? I do know that if I were not physically present on a search and the equipment was being utilized that someone else would have to have their own individual license in order to be covered.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[Socalgmrs]

No.  Every one that is not family would have to have their own license.  A business license would cover every one else but the business band is not gmrs.   So either get every one licensed on gmrs it’s so easy and cheap. Or get the S&R team a business license. 

[gortex2]

AS said every SAR member would need their license. Most will not want to pay that. Your best bet is a public safety frequency. Our SAR team has multiplei n VHF and UHF as well as interop stuff. To do SAR correct you need to do it right. Other than training I would not run an operation on GMRS or ham. 

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, padi189750 said:

I am the president and a ground searcher of a Search and Rescue group in Florida. We are attempting to utilize radio's as our primary communication as we are often in locations that do not have or has spotty wireless coverage.

My idea would be to purchase equipment to have a "mobile" repeater and have all of the radio's connect to this repeater. The concern comes with if my license alone would be significant enough to keep the repeater and/or everyone involved in the search legal or would each individual who I was working with need their own license?

I know previously there was a business GMRS license but that appears to have gone away so I don't know how to keep everyone covered? I do know that if I were not physically present on a search and the equipment was being utilized that someone else would have to have their own individual license in order to be covered.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Looks like Hurricane Milton is headed for central West Florida.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/weather/2024/10/07/hurricane-milton-tracker-path-spaghetti-models/75551975007/

That area is well covered by an extensive Ham NXDN digital network.

https://ni4ce.org/nxdn-digital-communications/

Some good used NXDN digital equipment examples:

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/418-nx-320jpeg/?context=new

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/290-nx-1300duk5/?context=new

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/251-nx-300jpg/?context=new

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/250-nx-820ghjpg/?context=new

 

 

[MarkInTampa]

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

Looks like Hurricane Milton is headed for central West Florida.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/weather/2024/10/07/hurricane-milton-tracker-path-spaghetti-models/75551975007/

That area is well covered by an extensive Ham NXDN digital network.

https://ni4ce.org/nxdn-digital-communications/

 

 

 

It's covered even better by SARNET (https://sarnetfl.org/)
 

[Lscott]

That is a VERY extensive network. I wonder if there is any linking between that network and the NXDN one?

[MarkInTampa]

11 hours ago, Lscott said:

That is a VERY extensive network. I wonder if there is any linking between that network and the NXDN one?

Two different groups run them so I couldn't tell you for sure. The SARNET system runs across the FDOT's (Florida Dept of Transportation) microwave network and towers. I've been to a few of the tower locations - it was kind of strange. The microwave network runs T3/DS3 (54mbs) protocol as a backbone, then divided into T1/DS1 (1.5mbs) lines and then further divided into 56/64k lines. There was even a old analog rotary dial telephone connected using a ancient PBX adapter that still worked at each location. It was like looking at a telco room from the 1960's.

DOT is really well connected in Florida using both microwave and fiber they own. Almost everything that ran on the microwave is now running on fiber. Up until 5 years ago almost all the interstate was covered with fiber and have PTZ cameras installed every 2 miles and MVDS (Microwave Vehicle Detection System) every mile with the exception of 130 mile or so stretch of I-10 between Jacksonville and Tallahassee and that's what I helped put in, now it's close to 100%. Now almost everything that was running microwave has been switched to fiber and the microwave network is basically abandoned except for the SARS repeater system. I talked to one of the FDOT IT directors awhile back and they wanted to scrap the microwave network that they don't use and didn't want to have to pay to maintain the towers and system anymore but it wasn't in the cards yet. I'm not sure how long SARNET will stay up or if DOT will allow them to run across the fiber - time will tell.

BTW - you can listen to SARNET through Broadcastify: https://m.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/35392

 

[Lscott]

26 minutes ago, MarkInTampa said:

There was even a old analog rotary dial telephone

You ever watch a Gen Z try to use one? They stick their fingers in the holes in the dial to press the numbers thinking they're buttons.

[Lscott]

29 minutes ago, MarkInTampa said:

I'm not sure how long SARNET will stay up or if DOT will allow them to run across the fiber - time will tell.

Wait till the system fails due to flooding since it's likely the critical lines are ground based. Then they'll start thinking about the microwave links again.

A buddy, whose a radio tech for a local city's transportation department, is working on installing a backup radio system on the city buses since they've had the cellar based communication system fail one too many times. 

[MarkInTampa]

26 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Wait till the system fails due to flooding since it's likely the critical lines are ground based. Then they'll start thinking about the microwave links again.

A buddy, whose a radio tech for a local city's transportation department, is working on installing a backup radio system on the city buses since they've had the cellar based communication system fail one too many times. 

The fiber network runs in a redundant ring and is divided by 7 districts that run and maintain their own fiber within their district. Some of the districts even have redundant operation centers. For example district 1's primary operations center is in Ft Meyers and the backup is in Bartow 90 miles away.  With additions of cameras, traffic detectors, EDMS (electronic digital message signs - and each one of those have a camera focused on them to confirm operation) and the like over the last 10 years that are all IP based and consume a ton of bandwidth fiber is the way to go.

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, MarkInTampa said:

The fiber network runs in a redundant ring and is divided by 7 districts that run and maintain their own fiber within their district. Some of the districts even have redundant operation centers. For example district 1's primary operations center is in Ft Meyers and the backup is in Bartow 90 miles away.  With additions of cameras, traffic detectors, EDMS (electronic digital message signs - and each one of those have a camera focused on them to confirm operation) and the like over the last 10 years that are all IP based and consume a ton of bandwidth fiber is the way to go.

Sounds like a fairly robust fault tolerant system. Has it been actually stress tested to verify it stays functional? 

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

You ever watch a Gen Z try to use one? They stick their fingers in the holes in the dial to press the numbers thinking they're buttons.

Did you know that many young people can't read the time on an analog clock with the moving hands either.

[amaff]

2 hours ago, Lscott said:

You ever watch a Gen Z try to use one? They stick their fingers in the holes in the dial to press the numbers thinking they're buttons.

Ever watch a boomer try and drive a 1920s Ford? They think the ignition timing lever is their turn signal!!

[Lscott]

42 minutes ago, amaff said:

Ever watch a boomer try and drive a 1920s Ford? They think the ignition timing lever is their turn signal!!

No, but when I took driver's ED the instructor told us about a girl driving the car once. They were doing some real on the road practice. The instructor told her to make a left turn off the side street into the school's parking lot. She grabbed the shift lever on the right side of the steering column and flipped it all the way up. The transmission didn't like it much.   

[MarkInTampa]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

Sounds like a fairly robust fault tolerant system. Has it been actually stress tested to verify it stays functional? 

I've broken the ring many times. From a hour or two when installing new switches to a week or so at a time when one of my guys drove a underground fiber warning post right through the fiber before it was fixed. Every switch that part of the network has passive fiber coupling, if the switch or power goes down the fiber is coupled together to keep the fiber live bypassing the switch. Also all are on large UPS's, IP accessible power strips, etc. Every pullbox for the fiber has at least 50ft spare cable looped in it. 

The strange thing is the way different districts test things. The UPS's all have ethernet ports and are connected to the network. One district will test remotely once a month and send somebody out it it fails and another district actually have crews that go to the site to test the UPS and visually verify batteries are not bulging, connectors are good, etc on a monthly basis. 

[GreggInFL]

4 hours ago, amaff said:

Ever watch a boomer try and drive a 1920s Ford? They think the ignition timing lever is their turn signal!!

Pfft.  Everyone knows it's the spark advance/retard lever.

[WRXB215]

Some think it tilts the steering wheel up and down.

[WQAI363]

On 10/7/2024 at 11:59 AM, padi189750 said:

I am the president and a ground searcher of a Search and Rescue group in Florida. We are attempting to utilize radio's as our primary communication as we are often in locations that do not have or has spotty wireless coverage.

My idea would be to purchase equipment to have a "mobile" repeater and have all of the radio's connect to this repeater. The concern comes with if my license alone would be significant enough to keep the repeater and/or everyone involved in the search legal or would each individual who I was working with need their ownlicense?

I know previously there was a business GMRS license but that appears to have gone away so I don't know how to keep everyone covered? I do know that if I were not physically present on a search and the equipment was being utilized that someone else would have to have their own individual license in order to be covered.

Thanks for any thoughts.

True the FCC prefers that each non-relative user of a GMRS repeater have their own license. However, I don't see the FCC would make a fuss over having individuals who aren't relatives using a GMRS repeater with one or two licensees in charge of the group or organization.

 

 However, it would be better that each member of the group or organization apply for their GMRS license. On the other hand, the group or organization could apply for Business Band License, which everyone in that group would be covered under the one license.

 

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, Adamdaj said:

True the FCC prefers that each non-relative user of a GMRS repeater have their own license. However, I don't see the FCC would make a fuss over having individuals who aren't relatives using a GMRS repeater with one or two licensees in charge of the group or organization.

 

 However, it would be better that each member of the group or organization apply for their GMRS license. On the other hand, the group or organization could apply for Business Band License, which everyone in that group would be covered under the one license.

 

It’s not a preference that every person who isn’t a relative be individually licensed; it’s a requirement. 

[WQAI363]

35 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

It’s not a preference that every person who isn’t a relative be individually licensed; it’s a requirement. 

I don't mean to sound like a think I know it all, because I don't.  You're Right, I do remember my first experience using a GMRS repeater. I joined the local Town Watch group, which at first were still using CB Radios. Two years later, the Town Watch migrated to GMRS, because of non-sense that was going on over the CB Radio Channels. Of course, at that only two of the board members applied and held GMRS licenses. The rest of us just piggy backed off of those two board members. Then again, the GMRS repeaters was only used when we had patrols and special events. 

[SteveShannon]

4 minutes ago, Adamdaj said:

I don't mean to sound like a think I know it all, because I don't.  You're Right, I do remember my first experience using a GMRS repeater. I joined the local Town Watch group, which at first were still using CB Radios. Two years later, the Town Watch migrated to GMRS, because of non-sense that was going on over the CB Radio Channels. Of course, at that only two of the board members applied and held GMRS licenses. The rest of us just piggy backed off of those two board members. Then again, the GMRS repeaters was only used when we had patrols and special events. 

I believe it.
Long ago companies and organizations could get a GMRS license that covered their employees/members. Those licenses are grandfathered but if allowed to expire that’s it. No new organizations can obtain that kind of license. Nor may government entities. Now only individuals may become licensed. 

[gortex2]

Our SAR team started out using GMRS after our local REACT Team donated the repeater. They had a club license as we did. When those changed we moved to public safety channels. We still host a GMRS repeater but think we only have 2 licensed members so its pretty quiet

 

[WRUE951]

its pretty obvious no one really cares about obtaining a license much less use their call sign to use GMRS for business..  Scanning the band in most places you go will tell you that..  Motels, Grocery Marts, Landscapers, Cable Contractors  Construction workers and even contractors for government jobs all use GMRS for their business....  i hear it every day and i'm sure most of you do..  And i bet you never near a call sign iota.  In fact, the only call signs i ever hear are the dorks wanting a radio check  

[OffRoaderX]

34 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

Scanning the band in most places you go will tell you that..  Motels, Grocery Marts, Landscapers, Cable Contractors  Construction workers and even contractors for government jobs all use GMRS for their business....  i hear it every day...

How do you know they aren't using FRS radios?

[WRUE951]

40 minutes ago, OffRoaderX said:

How do you know they aren't using FRS radios?

Propagation