would this work? (repeater/mobile radio setup)

[Guest zzyzx]

hello! i am completely new to amateur radio, i basically just started researching today. my friends and i have been intrigued by the concept of figuring out a way to communicate without using our phones. we live in a very small city about 0.5-1.5km away from each other. i happen to have a very high balcony that's centrally located and looks out over most of the city. i had the idea of setting up a repeater at my house with an antenna on the balcony that could strengthen our signal, and then we could use mobile radios to communicate. after doing some research on this forum i've found a few pieces of equipment, and i'm wondering if anyone can confirm that this setup would actually work:

everyone gets these - BAOFENG UV-5R 5W UHF/VHF Radio | Bulk Discount - Baofeng

i set up a repeater at my house using this - Retevis RT97S Full Duplex GMRS Ham Base Station Repeater 8CH for Ham/Outdoor | eBay

with this as the antenna - FG4500 - TE Connectivity / Laird External Antennas Part Detail | TTI, Inc.

and then we can all talk to each other from our various houses. would this work?

thanks and thanks for bearing with me as a total beginner

[WRXB215]

Should work but those HTs are ham not GMRS.

[OffRoaderX]

The UV-5R ham-radios now sold in the United States are locked - meaning they will not transmit on GMRS and the new ones cannot be unlocked.  Also, because they are H.A.M.s radios, they are more difficult/complicated to set up for repeater use.  You might get lucky and get one/some/all that are not locked, but it is a literal krapshoot as to whether or not you will get an unlocked one.

So for GMRS use you may want to consider the GMRS version of the UV-5R (Info here: https://amzn.to/43dSVDk )  . Or for almost the same price, the much better UV-5G Plus:  https://amzn.to/4hlLmhr

...or, any of the dozens of low-cost GMRS radios available:   https://amzn.to/4h4vMq4

TL;dr: most H.A.M.s radios will not work on GMRS and all of them are more complicated to configure/not as simple to use as GMRS radios

[WSAM454]

The repeater output is 5 watts; about the same as your handhelds, but you will be using it with a higher and somewhat better antenna, so direct communication with others at home should not be a problem, but you most probably will have limited range when mobile, since the repeater output is relatively low and the antenna is only about 2' long.

Getting GMRS radios, as OffroaderX  suggested will make things a LOT easier for you and your friends to program than 'converting' Ham versions of the radio.   (Getting GMRS licenses is also suggested)

[OffRoaderX]

7 minutes ago, WSAM454 said:

but you most probably will have limited range when mobile, since the repeater output is relatively low and the antenna is only about 2' long.

This is incorrect/impossible to predict/guess/assume without knowing the topography of where it will be used.. With my RT97 people with 5W handheld radios are able use it from 50+ miles away.

TL;DR: Ignore anyone's guess of how many farz it will work unless they know/are famailar with your exact/specific location and topographical shituation.

[WRTC928]

That should work. The fact that the repeater is only 5 watts shouldn't be a significant limitation. Radio waves travel in a straight line. if there's nothing between the two radios, you don't need much power. I can use a repeater 20 miles from my house with a 1 watt radio, but both the repeater and my house are on high points. Essentially everything between us is lower. The higher you can get the antenna, and the more gain the antenna has, the more successful your communications will be. Height is might and elevation is propagation. If you can get the antenna above the peak of your roof, that's ideal. Barring that, get it as high as possible. You might look into a telescoping flagpole to mount the antenna on. They're not prohibitively expensive and some of them will withstand 100 mph winds. If the antenna is elevated above intervening structures, you and your friends should be able to get a good 5-10 km with your handheld radios; possibly much more, depending upon the circumstances. 

Edited to add: Don't cheap out on the coaxial cable and keep the run as short as possible. You can lose up to half of your signal in 100' of coax and you don't have a lot of power to begin with. You can compensate for that with a high-gain antenna, but you still don't want to lose more than you have to.

[BoxCar]

3 hours ago, Guest zzyzx said:

hello! i am completely new to amateur radio, i basically just started researching today. my friends and i have been intrigued by the concept of figuring out a way to communicate without using our phones. we live in a very small city about 0.5-1.5km away from each other. i happen to have a very high balcony that's centrally located and looks out over most of the city. i had the idea of setting up a repeater at my house with an antenna on the balcony that could strengthen our signal, and then we could use mobile radios to communicate. after doing some research on this forum i've found a few pieces of equipment, and i'm wondering if anyone can confirm that this setup would actually work:

 

thanks and thanks for bearing with me as a total beginner

For just you and your friend, a pair of FRS radios will work between your locations as outlined. A repeater on your balcony will probably overload your HH radio when you try to connect through it. If you both get licensed ($35 for 10 years) then you can go to GMRS, or, you both could study for a week or two with one of the many license prep manuals and the YouTube videos to pss your Amateur Tech license exam and use existing amateur repeaters across the country.

[OffRoaderX]

19 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

A repeater on your balcony will probably overload your HH radio when you try to connect through it.

Just as a single data-point.  I have tested 50.. maybe 100? hand-held radios with my ~30watt repeater with the antenna on the roof, about 18 feet above me.. Never, not once, ever, has the repeater overloaded any radio I have ever tested.. Not even the worst $9 radios I have tested. I am not saying it could never happen, but the 5W RT97 is not going to overload anything.

21 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

... you both could study for a week or two with one of the many license prep manuals and the YouTube videos to pss your Amateur Tech license exam ...

Do you get a referral bonus if he signs up to your cult? Because it kinda seems like it..

[BoxCar]

@OffRoaderX We don't know how the OP plans to mount the antenna for his proposed repeater. He may very well be within one of the propagation nodes for whatever antenna he chooses, and then, he may not be. Your testing of HH with your repeater's antenna above you has you within an area of very low propagation for your antenna and therefore, your results are applicable only to you. 

As to suggesting amateur radio, this is an option just as using GMRS, MURS or FRS are options. GMRS and amateur radio services are the only services having repeaters available for use by other licensed users and therefore fill the requirement for repeater availability. It is well known you are a vehement adversary of ham radio preferring to classify all amateurs as sad hams. Does that make you a sad GMRS user? l believe you need to be more moderate with your tar brush remembering when you point your finger, three are pointing back at you.

[Socalgmrs]

4 hours ago, WSAM454 said:

Getting GMRS radios, as OffroaderX  suggested will make things a LOT easier for you and your friends to program than 'converting' Ham versions of the radio.   (Getting GMRS licenses is also suggested)

I do not find this to be true at all.   An “unlocked uv5r and a locked uv5 gmrs version programs EXACTLY the same.  Hook them up to chirp and hit download.  Takes less than 2min to do either version.   Doesn’t matter if it’s a Motorola, waxon, boofwang, ect.   Just hook them up to the computer and hit download to radio.  Ham radios are no different in any way then gmrs radios. 

[OffRoaderX]

20 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

It is well known you are a vehement adversary of ham radio preferring to classify all amateurs as sad hams. Does that make you a sad GMRS user? l believe you need to be more moderate with your tar brush remembering when you point your finger, three are pointing back at you.

Incorrect - I am a vehement adversary of people trying to jam amateur radio down peoples throats any time they ask how to use their GMRS equipment.  Further, I do not, nor have i never classified "all amateurs as sad hams" - anyone that is not a sad-ham themself is usually able to grasp and understand the distinction between normal, helpful, socially-adjusted H.A.M.s radios operators and a "sad ham". A difference that you seem to be struggling with.  

I am sorry if any of this makes you insecure about yourself.

Edited yesterday at 01:50 AM by OffRoaderX
Needed to clarify that Boxcar is both an idiot and a sad-ham himself in a way that was not insulting.

[TrikeRadio]

On 3/2/2025 at 9:59 AM, Guest zzyzx said:

hello! i am completely new to amateur radio, i basically just started researching today. my friends and i have been intrigued by the concept of figuring out a way to communicate without using our phones. we live in a very small city about 0.5-1.5km away from each other. i happen to have a very high balcony that's centrally located and looks out over most of the city. i had the idea of setting up a repeater at my house with an antenna on the balcony that could strengthen our signal, and then we could use mobile radios to communicate. after doing some research on this forum i've found a few pieces of equipment, and i'm wondering if anyone can confirm that this setup would actually work:

everyone gets these - BAOFENG UV-5R 5W UHF/VHF Radio | Bulk Discount - Baofeng

i set up a repeater at my house using this - Retevis RT97S Full Duplex GMRS Ham Base Station Repeater 8CH for Ham/Outdoor | eBay

with this as the antenna - FG4500 - TE Connectivity / Laird External Antennas Part Detail | TTI, Inc.

and then we can all talk to each other from our various houses. would this work?

thanks and thanks for bearing with me as a total beginner

if you are within .5 - 1.5 km of each other you probably do not need a repeater at all. Get GMRS  handheld radios (or mobile for your cars) - pay the $35 for 10 years license and talk simplex (radio to radio) without a repeater.

[TDM827]

13 hours ago, TrikeRadio said:

if you are within .5 - 1.5 km of each other you probably do not need a repeater at all. Get GMRS  handheld radios (or mobile for your cars) - pay the $35 for 10 years license and talk simplex (radio to radio) without a repeater.

I second TrikeRadio's advice and do some testing to see what simplex will do for your group before going too far down the repeater rabbit hole. Of course, as preached continuously on these forums, things like topography, antenna height and type of antenna will have a huge impact on effective range. 

As an upside you, already have a group if interested friends. So if you do need a repeater you can spread the cost over several users. If you need a repeater,  don't forget to budget for back up power (battery back up) or your repeater will likely be of no use during power outages.     

[TerriKennedy]

On 3/2/2025 at 12:59 PM, Guest zzyzx said:

hello! i am completely new to amateur radio, i basically just started researching today. my friends and i have been intrigued by the concept of figuring out a way to communicate without using our phones. we live in a very small city about 0.5-1.5km away from each other. i happen to have a very high balcony that's centrally located and looks out over most of the city. i had the idea of setting up a repeater at my house with an antenna on the balcony that could strengthen our signal, and then we could use mobile radios to communicate. after doing some research on this forum i've found a few pieces of equipment, and i'm wondering if anyone can confirm that this setup would actually work:

Welcome!

First, what's your use case? If it's just to chat with others during "normal" (such as they are) times, you can get "radio-ish" apps for cell phones that give you similar functionality as long as you're within range of a cellular or WiFi signal. OTOH, if you want something more radio-like, but still easy, look at the offerings from Rapid Radios. I don't normally recommend them because they're just cellular modems stuffed into a radio case. For many of the use cases they seem to be marketing these to, they'll be as useful as doorstops when the power is out long enough for the cellular network to go down, and don't work where there's no cell service. I expect that after a natural disaster, there will be a bunch of unhappy preppers with these.

If neither of those is what you're looking for, consider getting a pair of radios like the Baofeng UV-5G Plus. It's a legit locked-to-GMRS-transmit radio, so nobody will give you a hard time about using unapproved equipment. You'll need at least one GMRS license (entire family, 10 years, $35) if only one of you is going to transmit, which is fine for testing. Get a pair of GMRS-tuned antennas (Nagoya NA-701G is the normal one, NA-771G is the extra-long one), since even the Baofeng radios locked to GMRS come with the same "rubber ducky" antenna as the other Baofeng models which isn't tuned specifically for GMRS.

Stand on your balcony and transmit to someone with the other radio (after making sure you're both on the same channel). They can phone you and talk on the phone with you while they try to hear you over the radio. If that works, consider just getting an antenna you can put on your balcony and a cable to run to a semi-permanently-installed handheld with a battery eliminator.

If you have a use situation where a repeater would be useful (such as when you're not at home), first check to see if there's an open repeater or repeater club near you and if they're accepting new people. If not, then consider getting a repeater and a more permanent balcony antenna. But if they can't hear your 5W handheld when you're on the balcony, they're probably not going to be able to hear you with your 5W repeater. You may need to go higher than your balcony to get good coverage, which is going to involve a good deal more effort than just clamping an antenna onto the balcony railing.

GMRS repeaters are not as easy as the sellers of dedicated units would have you believe, and even more difficult if you buy one of the re-purposed pile-o-parts units (separate receiver / transmitter, duplexer, battery eliminator) on eBay. For one thing, going up to the 35W / 50W power level won't do a lot if there's a building / mountain / whatever between your repeater antenna and whoever you want to talk to. Next, you need to put the antenna up as high as you can (practicality and regulations permitting). Then you should coordinate with people  running other repeaters - with only 8 input/output frequency pairs, urban areas need a good amount of cooperation in order to not be talking over each other (even with the repeaters using separate tone codes, there's still only one channel that people are sharing).

Even with a repeater that "fell into my lap" ready-to-go, I expect I'm in for another $2000 minimum to get the proper antenna, mounting it on my roof as high as is legal (I'm on a ridge in the approach path of a major airport), getting a custom-made length of heliax cable, lightning arrestor, ground rod field, backup power, etc. Probably closer to $2500. The only reason I'm doing it is that my city used to have a number of repeaters which are now defunct (offline for 5+ years), leaving none in the city. And this is in a "major metropolitan area". There are other GMRS repeaters operating, but one is limited to emergency personnel  only and is usually silent, and another is barely in range and operated by a group that apparently isn't accepting new members and their web site and Facebook page haven't been updated in years. Their repeater is still up, but since it is announcing the time incorrectly (by 58 minutes), it seems nobody with management capabilities on that repeater is listening to it any more.

Even with a temporary NMO-HDG antenna using my chain link fence as a counterpoise, I get a bunch of people "kerchunking" the repeater for no useful purpose, and I suspect it will get even worse when the real antenna goes up on the roof. I really don't want to have to maintain DTMF ident bursts for individual users, but I may need to in order to keep the kercunkers off the repeater.