Imagine Nationwide or International Coverage of your GMRS Repeater, Legally!

[WROQ359]

What exactly is the end goal of this? Being able to sit at home and talk to some random person also sitting at their home using a radio? I am pretty sure ham radio has accomplished this with the many link systems in place. This can also be accomplished using Zello alone, no radios, no GMRS licenses needed just an app on your cellphone or PC and you can talk to as many random strangers as you want. 

Quote

•  

 

[The219]

1 hour ago, nokones said:

Ok, but please don't raz me about my Caffeine and Sugar Free Diet Pepsi. I have plenty in my refrigerator in my Jeep, it gets hot on the trail.  I don't drink beer and it is one of my many personal faults. If need be, I can keep your 12-pack ice cold for you.

Its crazy how "some people" think a "12 pack" is only beer.  Is that the euhomy fridge, looks just like mine! Not drinking beer is no fault, especially out on the trails. Sugar free diet pepsi noted.

[The219]

1 hour ago, H8SPVMT said:

Sounds dangerously close to what the Gay crowd wanted to do to us young boys thumbing a ride home... Yea, I'm a Jeeper and no Subaru recovery line has ever touched my vehicle.... 

Drinking off road never lead to anything good. Only some littered beer cans and stories that will never be spoken.

Sounds like something a closet sad ham with no sense of humor would say, and who said anything about drinking off road, soda is sold in 12 packs too you know. If you'd rather dig or push a stuck jeep out over a lowly subaru pulling it thats up to you, to each their own. 

[73blazer]

Another way to do this is use the many free virtual technologies, vmware has a bunch and now even wmware workstation pro is free for personal use. Download workstation pro on your mac, spin up a windows guest in it....move on with life.

[WSHH887]

Hmm, perhaps I am unwelcome here. My off road vehicle is a Jeep. The same CJ-8 I've been driving since 1982. 

In the past 40 odd years I have been helped and helped pretty much every brand of vehicle. Including the unstuckable Unimog. 
 

I suppose there are Jeep owners who adopt a superior attitude because they have built Jeeps. But if you check the undercarriage you'll find they have never left the asphalt. 
 

Once you get on the trail it is all just good natured ribbing between owners of different brands. 
 

And yea, many aren't ever going to know all the ins and outs of "radio". That's not their focus. GMRS to them if an adjunct to their hobby. Much like CB was and still is to some. Just a better means of communication. Beats yelling down the trail. 
 

 

[SteveShannon]

4 hours ago, H8SPVMT said:

Sounds dangerously close to what the Gay crowd wanted to do to us young boys thumbing a ride home...

That’s an ignorant comment. 

[CaptainSarcastic]

15 minutes ago, WSHH887 said:

Hmm, perhaps I am unwelcome here. My off road vehicle is a Jeep. The same CJ-8 I've been driving since 1982. 

In the past 40 odd years I have been helped and helped pretty much every brand of vehicle. Including the unstuckable Unimog. 
 

I suppose there are Jeep owners who adopt a superior attitude because they have built Jeeps. But if you check the undercarriage you'll find they have never left the asphalt. 
 

Once you get on the trail it is all just good natured ribbing between owners of different brands. 
 

And yea, many aren't ever going to know all the ins and outs of "radio". That's not their focus. GMRS to them if an adjunct to their hobby. Much like CB was and still is to some. Just a better means of communication. Beats yelling down the trail. 
 

 

2017 JK Owner here - Mine looks like it is ready to go offroad, but in reality, it's a "Mall Crawler"  - No superior attitude here - just a friendly "Jeep wave"!

I have installed a Uniden Pro510XL with a FireStick 2 and have a couple GMRS Handhelds that I throw in when I'm out and about.

 

 

[Davichko5650]

24 minutes ago, WSHH887 said:

 

Once you get on the trail it is all just good natured ribbing between owners of different brands. 
 

 
 

 

Get that now and again with one group, as I have an 01 Explorer I run with the "Jeepers" (skid plates, 31's winch recovery gear), but we also have Toyotas, an occasional Samurai, Pathfinder, whathaveyouthat'snotaJeep.  But when we hit the trails and they see we can off road with the best of them, they take it in stride. And we of course respond in kind with the insults, much like good friends do with each other.

As far as who pulls who out of the Stuck, it's like being out boating, you always, I mean ALWAYS help out a fellow off-roader.  We're talking moderate off road trails here, not rock crawling or King of the Hammers or mud bogging. The help you give today may be the help you need tomorrow.

[WRUE951]

On 3/11/2025 at 7:23 AM, tweiss3 said:

He's not, he is a dealer trying to peddle Hytera radios and repeaters. 

They can't come close to beating Atlantic Radio cost for Hytera gear.   

[WRUE951]

Hot Damn,   This Horse is one tough cookie..      Damnnnnnnnn

[nokones]

5 hours ago, WSGL219 said:

Its crazy how "some people" think a "12 pack" is only beer.  Is that the euhomy fridge, looks just like mine! Not drinking beer is no fault, especially out on the trails. Sugar free diet pepsi noted.

No, it is the Dometic CFX345

[WRUE951]

8 minutes ago, nokones said:

No, it is the Dometic CFX345

Dr. Pepper here...  

[CogentRadios]

On 3/11/2025 at 3:58 PM, CogentRadios said:

This was sent to the FCC for clarification to start the conversation.

POC GMRS rule clarification,

 

The rules and definitions pertaining to utilizing digital to analog FM technologies are not real clear and I am seeking clarification regarding the following scenario.

 

 

Utilizing POC (Push to talk over cellular) data radios bridged to an analog GMRS repeater. The POC’s do not fall into the definition of network, linking, Clear Communications or real time communications as defined by the FCC. There are multiple questions regarding this, and I hope to lay them all out to the best of my ability get the best clarification I can.

 

The scenario would be users utilizing a POC radio with a license validated group meaning that users in that group hold a valid GMRS license, the users would access a dedicated server through digital means, not a phone system as currently specified and defined by the FCC.

 

Once the signal reaches the bridge a conversion takes place from digital communications to analog FM just as a standard radio accessing the repeater would. The bridge, a radio would be under physical control and not operated remotely.

 

One of the questions that needs clarification is, what is the point of “Clear Communications”, is it the point that the data stream is initiated or the point that the conversion from digital to analog FM takes place. This I feel is crucial point of the transmit chain since “Clear Communication” does not take place until conversion to FM happens and vice versa. The way I understand “Clear Communications” is for example FM to FM not digital to FM it would be unintelligible.

 

I would also like to note in part 47 points out that GMRS or FRS devices ARE authorized to transmit data to include location and “Text Messages” essentially creating a digital network if there is more than one device. This creates confusion when part 47 states no network connections are allowed on GMRS systems or repeaters. Outside mesh networks could decipher and decode the digital location or text message essentially expanding the network between the two devices.

 

A ruling clarification has already been rendered on linking multiple GMRS repeaters, this is not applicable since there is no repeater linking or additional spectrum use either from the end user or repeater associated with this approach.

 

I would also like to point out that only licensed users in the designated community would have access to the system, meaning that NOT anyone with a POC radio would be able to access the Repeater as in a linked repeater scenario.

 

According to the following rules:

 

§ 95.1749 GMRS network connection.

 

Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited, as in § 95.349. GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations, however, may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745.

 

§ 95.1731 Permissible GMRS uses.

 

The operator of a GMRS station may use that station for two-way plain language voice communications with other GMRS stations and with FRS units concerning personal or business activities.

 

(d) Digital data.  GMRS hand-held portable units may transmit digital data containing location information, or request location information from one or more other GMRS or FRS units, or containing a brief text message to another specific GMRS or FRS unit

 

95.1733 Prohibited GMRS uses.

 

(8) Messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and transmitted by a GMRS station;

 

 This brings into definition what is the legal definition of a network and at what point does clear communications take place.

 

The FCC does not explicitly define "network" in a single, clear statement, but based on its regulations and interpretations, a network is generally understood as a system of interconnected communication points, like radio stations, television channels, or internet service providers, that can transmit signals or data across a large area, falling under the FCC's jurisdiction for regulating interstate and international communications via radio, television, wire, satellite, and cable.

 

The follow up definition would be the definition of interconnectivity by the FCC.

 

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) defines "interconnected VoIP service" as a service that allows users to make and receive calls to the public switched telephone network (PSTN). Interconnected VoIP services use Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) technology.

 

According to this definition a direct example of VOIP was given which clearly states  switched telephone network and I present no contest on this, but by mere definition this does not apply to a POC bridge to a GMRS repeater. The POC is digital stream, controlled by a closed server which directs a digital stream to a bridge device facilitating the conversion to FM. Just to point out another perspective on network, would the GMRS repeater with the users not also be considered a network or defined as such?

 

 

 

Although the broad definition of network could be applied to a POC radio system, I believe that at the point of conversion utilizing the “Clear Communications”  principal when the conversion and transmission to the repeater takes place it would be no different than a local user accessing the system as intended and does not apply. The possibilities this system brings to communities utilizing a GMRS repeater are multifold coupling utility with safety and maintaining the integrity of the allocated frequency spectrum. The antiquated approach to GMRS management is falling short of market technologies and advancements in communication.

 

I am grateful for your time and counsel on this I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

 

Frank Sellers

 

CEO/President

 

 Cogent Radios Group

 

+1.931.208.0484

 

 

Submit Help Request

Your request for support has been received at 2025-03-11 15:57:27. FCC Support will contact you within the next 3 business days. You may track your support request online using the tracking number below.

Please print or save this number!

Tracking Number:

HD0001478045

Latest update, looks like it has been assigned.

[CogentRadios]

On 3/13/2025 at 10:19 PM, WSGL219 said:

Exactly my point but "IF" by some miracle of DOGE and the FCC is reduced and deregulation becomes the new trend and cogent starts a nationwide GMRS thingy, it would suck. And you lost me at "Jeepers" those guys are one step above sad hams.  

Did you even read the purpose of this, its amazing how many people in this forum fail the concept of seeking to understand but have an opinion. This is not linking and creating a national network, its creating access to a community repeater to users in that community on a national level.  Let me simplify, you are a regular user on a GMRS repeater and travel out of the area you can still access your community repeater, its that simple. This is not for having Joe Blow operator from NY tying up repeaters in LA. I would not want that either. It makes no sense that this is not permissible other than telecom lobbying against it. The rest of the challenge is legal definition and interpretation of rules.

[WRUU653]

7 minutes ago, CogentRadios said:

Did you even read the purpose of this, its amazing how many people in this forum fail the concept of seeking to understand but have an opinion. This is not linking and creating a national network, its creating access to a community repeater to users in that community on a national level.  Let me simplify, you are a regular user on a GMRS repeater and travel out of the area you can still access your community repeater, its that simple. This is not for having Joe Blow operator from NY tying up repeaters in LA. I would not want that either. It makes no sense that this is not permissible other than telecom lobbying against it. The rest of the challenge is legal definition and interpretation of rules.

If you can do one you can do the other. Do you realize you won’t be able to make sure you aren’t transmitting over the top of someone that is using simplex? Just because you put a repeater on a frequency doesn’t make that frequency yours. GMRS doesn’t have the amount of channels/frequencies that Amateur Radio has, nor does it have the coordination that makes such things possible. Want coms for a community nation wide, use a group text or Facebook neighborhood group page. 

[WSFL951]

2 minutes ago, WRUU653 said:

If you can do one you can do the other. Do you realize you won’t be able to make sure you aren’t transmitting over the top of someone that is using simplex? Just because you put a repeater on a frequency doesn’t make that frequency yours. GMRS doesn’t have the amount of channels/frequencies that Amateur Radio has, nor does it have the coordination that makes such things possible. Want coms for a community nation wide, use a group text or Facebook neighborhood group page. 

 

[WRUU653]

I’m not sure what you’re responding to in my post @WSFL951… my comments were specifically as to why I feel @CogentRadios “Imagine Nationwide or International Coverage of your GMRS Repeater, Legally!” is not supported by the rules or practicality of GMRS in my opinion (which happens to be that of the FCC). I’m confused as to the screen shot of Facebook pages about GMRS while quoting me.

[WRYZ926]

44 minutes ago, CogentRadios said:

This is not linking and creating a national network, its creating access to a community repeater to users in that community on a national level.  Let me simplify, you are a regular user on a GMRS repeater and travel out of the area you can still access your community repeater, its that simple.

That is currently done with Allstar nodes on the VHF and UHF amateur bands. And you are still using other networks, internet or phone, to make that connection back to your community repeater.

Plenty of guys have the Allstar app on their phones to talk to the local repeater while they travel. Again they are still using either internet or cell phone connections to reach the repeater.

That is still against the FCC regulations that they recently clarified.  

[The219]

53 minutes ago, CogentRadios said:

" its creating access to a community repeater to users in that community on a national level.  Let me simplify, you are a regular user on a GMRS repeater and travel out of the area you can still access your community repeater, its that simple." This is not for having Joe Blow operator from NY tying up repeaters in LA. I would not want that either.

Do you even understand the purpose of GMRS? Like you said its a "Community repeater for users in that community" NYC is not in the Calif community. Why would I be in NY and want to be talking to people back in Ca on GMRS via LTE, satellite, cellular or any other means of transmission? By having anytime access reguardless of distance from that repeater you defeat the principle of "community" and thats exactly what you are trying to open the door to. Whats to stop the guy in NY whos not part of the California community from comming on here looking up a repeater in California and jumping on it on your system? There are only 8 repeater frequencies in the GMRS band and there is already a problem with users creating interference and jamming frequencies on purpose locally, i dont want to imaging the $hit storm that could be if GMRS repeaters were available nationwide to that. What you are proposing is already available on other bands and not GMRS. GMRS was designated for local use and not nationwide like other bands for a reason and your proposal completely misses that.

[SteveShannon]

13 minutes ago, WRYZ926 said:

That is currently done with Allstar nodes on the VHF and UHF amateur bands. And you are still using other networks, internet or phone, to make that connection back to your community repeater.

Plenty of guys have the Allstar app on their phones to talk to the local repeater while they travel. Again they are still using either internet or cell phone connections to reach the repeater.

That is still against the FCC regulations that they recently clarified.  

That’s really the essence of the problem. The GMRS rules don’t truly prohibit linking repeaters; they prohibit placing GMRS communications onto a network. 

[WRYZ926]

1 minute ago, SteveShannon said:

That’s really the essence of the problem. The GMRS rules don’t truly prohibit linking repeaters; they prohibit placing GMRS communications onto a network. 

And as @CogentRadios described his system, other networks have to be used in order to connect to community repeaters while traveling.

It's no different than people using the Allstar apps on their phones to connect to Allstar nodes connected to repeaters. Cell and internet connections are still used to make the connection.

[CogentRadios]

On 3/15/2025 at 9:48 AM, WRUU653 said:

If you can do one you can do the other. Do you realize you won’t be able to make sure you aren’t transmitting over the top of someone that is using simplex? Just because you put a repeater on a frequency doesn’t make that frequency yours. GMRS doesn’t have the amount of channels/frequencies that Amateur Radio has, nor does it have the coordination that makes such things possible. Want coms for a community nation wide, use a group text or Facebook neighborhood group page. 

Isnt that the same for any gmrs repeater, how would you make sure your not keying on a simplex user?

[CogentRadios]

On 3/15/2025 at 11:00 AM, WRYZ926 said:

And as @CogentRadios described his system, other networks have to be used in order to connect to community repeaters while traveling.

It's no different than people using the Allstar apps on their phones to connect to Allstar nodes connected to repeaters. Cell and internet connections are still used to make the connection.

Actually it is different, there would be a group established on a dedicated server, that is not accessible to anyone with an app or poc radio, you must be added to the group by a sysop not just have a node available to dial into.

[WRUU653]

1 minute ago, CogentRadios said:

Isnt that the same for any gmrs repeater, how would you make sure your not keying on a simplex user?

To some extent yes but you are less likely to do so if you are in the same area than across the continent, at least locally you can and are supposed to check for local traffic before keying up. 

[WSFF627]

On 3/15/2025 at 10:56 AM, SteveShannon said:

That’s really the essence of the problem. The GMRS rules don’t truly prohibit linking repeaters; they prohibit placing GMRS communications onto a network. 

Yes, the way I read and understand the rules, you can and always could RF link them.