marcspaz

Not at all. I figured we are just having a conversation and sharing information. I don’t want to speak for the OP, but I think he is just trying to demonstrate how bad information is out in the world and how confusing it can be trying to figure it out for many people. I took it as that is really the topic. I could be wrong, though.

The funny part is, I'm a bit of a dork when it comes to this stuff, so I have read it all to see how it impacts my Amateur license use and my GMRS license use. There is nothing in our agreements or treaties with Canada or Mexico that encompasses GMRS frequencies. That said, I agree with the general sentiment. People shouldn't have to be a legal scholar (or try to think like one) and willing to spend several hours or even days trying to research this stuff, just to talk to their family or friends on a $10 radio they bought at Walmart or on Amazon. The whole concept is asinine. The two nations should just coordinate their frequency use and keep it simple for their citizens.

I'm not sure where you (AI) pulled this, but it's all old, not part of the current FCC rules and have not been valid since 2017. The current rules are here... https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E

Quick side note.... FCC Rule § 1.928 "Frequency coordination, Canada" does still list 450MHz to 470MHz as restricted. However, there is no indication that § 1.928 applies to GMRS.

Okay... really quick... the short answer is those people on the net are incorrect. You can use all of the GMRS channels anywhere in the US. Details without getting too dorky... what used to limit us was a combination of FCC rules and a US/Canada treaty. The treaty is called "Agreement Between the Government of the United States of America and the Government of Canada Concerning the Coordination and Use of Radio Frequencies Above Thirty Megacycles per Second, with Annexes" also known as the "Above 30 MHz Agreement". A new agreement that was signed in 2021 supersedes that agreement. The new document is called "General coordination agreement between Canada and the United States of America on the use of the radio frequency spectrum by terrestrial radiocommunication stations and earth stations." This document discontinued the parts first treaty I mentioned, that impacted GMRS. Now, that only relates to the Treaty / Agreement. Under FCC rules, the restriction was also lifted. The older rule was under "§ 95.1761 GMRS transmitter certification" (e). However, § 95.1761(e) now has new text that is completely unrelated. Also, Line A is not referenced anywhere in the Personal Radio Service general rules, nor in the GMRS specific rules. The original text from the FCC (from the wayback machine), again no longer valid, is noted below. § 95.1761 GMRS transmitter certification (e) GMRS transmitters intended for use north of Line A or east of Line C* must not be capable of transmitting on channels 462.650 MHz or 462.700 MHz (GMRS Channels 19 and 21), unless such operation is specifically authorized by the Commission pursuant to an application showing that harmful interference to Canadian stations is unlikely.*

I've been messaging with Eddie for the last couple of days on this site. I had no idea a repeater was being planned. A buddy of mine called me up and let me know about it. I haven't really used it yet, but it sounds pretty good. At 1.5 miles away, you could work it with 1/4 watt. LOL

Hey, Peter! Great questions. BTW... if you hear us chatting, you are always welcome to join in! I appreciate the interest. We talked about it a little at our last get-together, but just touched on it. So, I'm happy to give more details. I am a volunteer radio operator with the Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES). I serve on a few teams supporting DHS/FEMA, US Marine Corps Quantico (MCCS/MCM), Loudoun County, Prince William County and the Virginia state EOC in Richmond. ARES is a nation-wide group attached to the American Radio Radio League. Our organization has formal MOUs with local, state and federal agencies across the nation. Our team provides a full spectrum of auxiliary (and on occasion, primary) communications support for the aforementioned agencies. That would include, but not limited to, voice traffic, independent email services, wireless LAN/WAN both in an affected area and relayed outside the impact zone, video, GPS and signal tracking, and much, much more. We have had great success in drills and real-world service for more decades than I have been alive, and I am happy to be apart of the organization. These relationships have afforded our teams some special privileges in the radio world. Hospitals, government agencies, and private business all appreciate the services we provide to the community, and to help us provide the best possible services, these agencies/businesses have allowed our groups to install VHF and UHF repeaters on there buildings, commercial radio towers, and on high-elevation properties. We even have repeaters and towers installed in national parks for areas known to frequently need our support. I mention all of this because it is relevant to what is happening with the proposed GMRS repeater. The Prince William County government is allowing us to install a new amateur radio VHF and UHF repeater on a county radio tower. The intent is to have the amateur radio equipment available to all licensed amateurs, while ensuring priority use for ARES supporting the county, state and federal government. Since we are going to have both a VHF and a UHF antenna, we figured we would gang a GMRS repeater on the UHF antenna, having it support both systems. I proposed the use of the GMRS repeater to the county under the same assumptions as the amateur radio repeaters... they will be open to all licensed users, with the county and other served agencies traffic taking priority during drills and emergencies, and the county EC agreed. Keep in mind, we are in the early stages of planning. We need to design the system, acquire hardware, and coordinate frequency use. What we are planning is subject to change... but the proposed details are as fallows. The availability date is currently TBD. As mentioned, we are still gathering parts and the facility is currently in the end stages of renovations. We cannot build until construction is complete. The tower is in the south-eastern part of Prince William County. The base of the tower is about 155 feet above average terrain. The arm the antennas will be on is about 300 feet above ground. We are going to use high-gain folded dipole antennas for all repeaters. We are planning on legal limit for the power output on GMRS (and 100w for the amateur repeaters). The channel is TBD, pending coordination. This will be a publicly accessible repeater, open to all licensed operators. Again, if the repeater is needed for emergency use, we will terminate public access until the emergency need is over. We hope that amateur gear will be sufficient so local families/residents can use the GMRS repeater in a local communications outage. We have not settled on a tone yet, but it will be CTCSS. We will ask local users to use whatever the primary tone we select for day-to-day use, but we will also have 141.3 for emergency/traveler use. The coverage area is theoretical at this point, but below is a projected coverage map showing 99.9% reliability. As we drop down to 70% reliability, the coverage increases dramatically.

I few years ago I tested my Yaesu FT3D and my BF-F8HP with an SA. On frequency, there were no side spurs on the BTech, but there was a pretty decent size spur on the bottom of the signal on the Yaesu. However, there were zero harmonic spurs on the FT3D compare to something like 15 spurs plus/minus the carrier frequency of the BF-F8HP. And several of the close harmonic spurs were at power levels close to the same as the intended carrier frequency. Like, within 5 or 6 dB.

I must be missing something.. I run 300w WB-C4FM on FRS 10 all the time, so when my wife is in the kitchen and I'm in the garage, she can hear my signal okay. Are we not supposed to do that?

Rugged Radio got a NoNo letter from the FCC for selling 6 different radios that RR advertised as being compliant and were not. Even with such gross disregard and massive exposure, they still did not get a fine. I don't know how bad you have mess up before the FCC gives a damn about GMRS violations, but the bar is obviously very high.

I'm reading this thread, thinking the same thing.... while wearing this shirt...

This is just my opinion and by no means intended to be legal advice, but I have to agree with Randy and others with the same type of response. It seems that unless someone is committing some wild infraction, they aren't getting FCC attention. There are way too few enforcement agents and way too many people with radios for anything else. I used to think it mattered, but time and inaction have unequivocally proven otherwise. I have an XTL5000 that has the ability to run wideband digital encryption on UHF at 115 watts. From a technology standpoint, it exceeds every single minimum requirement established for type approval. If I where to program it to transmit 20w of output, only able to access the upper channels for high power simplex and repeater operation, narrow-band analog voice only, adhere to all of the other configuration requirements (including not transmitting on non-GMRS frequencies) and the FCC enforcement team knew I did it... I highly doubt anyone is going to care. Shoot... unless I were to get on the internet and start bragging about it, there isn't even any way for anyone to know. Signal interception sure isn't going the tell anyone anything. The bottom line is, I would never advocate or condone intentionally violating the rules... but damn dude... the FCC has way more important things to worry about then if you are using an iCom, Kenwood, Motorola, Yaesu, Harris, Baeofeng, TIDRadio, or any other radio. Ensure you don't cause harmful interference by using a quality radio and not acting like a Richard Cranium and im pretty confident if you roll the dice, you won't go to prison or get a $14,000 fine.

@SteveShannon you don't think I read the whole thread, do you? LOL

Under FCC Definition, handheld radios are mobile radios. Straight from § 95.303 Definitions. Hand-held portable unit. A physically small mobile station that can be operated while being held in the operator's hand.

Correct. It went away in 2017 with the other rule changes. Just to caveat this, though... § 95.1761(c) states that a transmitter that is certified in another service, but also complies with all other GMRS requirements except for frequency access, can be certified for use in GMRS, also. So, while I am unaware of any LMR radios that are currently certified under Part 90 LMR and Part 95 GMRS, there is nothing preventing manufacturers from producing an LMR / GMRS combination radio that adheres to the rules that can be certified.