Lscott

Yeah, a mall by me has a GMRS repeater setup on RPT16, the same channel the local repeater, fortunately using a different tone, I use is on only 6 to 7 miles away with around 80 registered users. Their license expired in 10/2015! They still use it. They way I look at it their choices are as follows. 1. Keep using it. Ignorance is bliss. 2. If the repeater gets "hijacked" by licensed GMRS users, ignore them. (see option 6 why this might be the better choice for the moment) 3. Get a legit business only licensed frequency. Then have their radios reprogrammed, repeater reprogrammed and the duplexer re-tuned to use it. 4. Shut it all down and go away. 5. Switch to using FRS radios instead giving up the repeater. 6. Complain to the FCC about their repeater getting "hijacked" by licensed GMRS users, get shut down by the FCC and pay $10k's in fines for operating illegally without a license for almost 7 years. Then go to option 3, 4 or 5 anyway.

That's why I have a preference for Kenwood gear, not that it's demonstrability better than say Motorola, and I've had rather good luck finding the software for Kenwood commercial radios. So far I have 15 different radio programming suites for them. I just managed to track down the updated firmware for two TK-3170E models I just got a couple of days ago from a private seller in Ireland, that's where the radios came from, at no cost from the customer tech support department of the company that originally programmed them. I also got the latest firmware for the TK-3170K and TK-3180K models from Kenwood tech support in the USA also at no cost. All I had to do was send an email to Kenwood tech support and ask politely along with why I needed it. I've read too many stories about people's dealings with Motorola and the cost for some of the software, entitlement keys etc. As a Ham I can't afford to spend $100 to $250 a pop for software to program one or two Motorola models. I'd rather use the money to buy more radios to play with. There is a reason why I see piles of used Motorola radios at swaps from time to time. I rarely find Kenwood commercial radios. So far I have mostly analog only radios. I have a couple UHF hand-held radios that do analog/digital (NXDN or DMR) and one mobile analog/digital (NXDN).

That makes sense. I think the trouble with the CCR's type radios with the Part 90 certification was due to the radios being front panel programmable. Those are now shipped with that feature locked out requiring the "secret" button presses, passwords or the software to enable it. Now the interesting thing is on the TK-3170, since these seem to be a popular choice for a commercial radio on GMRS, to enable front panel programming the radio requires two things to be done. The first is a diode needs to be removed on an internal circuit board. Second the feature must be enabled in the programming software. If both are not done you can't do front panel programming. There is a warning the radio must NOT be delivered to a customer with the feature enabled in the software. The warning message is curious from the standpoint why is it even there if the radio would loose it's certification? I know these radios are sold in several different markets outside of the US, I just got two of the TK-3170E types from a seller in Ireland, however I would imagine other countries have similar restrictions on front panel programming and certification requirements which makes this even more curious.

I have a Part 95 certified Kenwood TK-3170K, type 1 radio, with no hardware modifications, FCC ID ALH34713110. https://fccid.io/ALH34713110 So if I have a bunch of Ham repeaters loaded into it along with all the GMRS stuff it's no longer certified? All the programming was done through the official software, KPG-101D V2.40, and it wasn't hacked either. The software allows out of the "official" band split frequencies to be entered with a warning message. That's one of the reasons I like the Kenwood line of old analog and some of the newer combo analog/digital radios. I'm licensed for both the GMRS and Ham services by the way for anybody who might be interested. So I have a radio that now operates on both services where neither hardware or software modifications were done. I only did what the hardware and software allowed me to do. Under that interpretation the radio should retain it's certification. The fine line is what exactly does "modification" mean when referring to software? I would say that would be actual changes to the radio's firmware, not just the parameters programmed into it. Otherwise one could argue that simply changing a PL tone setting would be a software modification, which would be a silly.

I considered trying something like this but using a Hex-editor to directly change the frequency entries. I though about getting a super cheap Kenwood "Protalk" radio, the ones that have the fixed business frequencies, and load the modified code plug to the radio. I installed the programming software to experiment with before trying to buy a radio. Looking at the code plug using a Hex-editor I can see the frequencies in it. Some of the radios the frequencies are hard coded in the radio's firmware. Those you likely can't do much or anything to change it. Others the frequencies are only hard coded into the radio programming software. Those you can likely muck around with the raw code plug to bypass the programming software limits provided you can get the code plug to load into the radio. Oh, some of the radios use encryption on the code plugs to prevent people from doing modifications or getting other propriety info out of them, like read/write passwords etc. So, if you don't know how it's done you can't decrypt the code plug, modify it then encrypt it to load into the radio. Some of the later model Kenwood's encrypt the code plug, which included the version of the software used to build it AND the serial number used to install it on the computer when I decrypted a few to look at. Some look like they even save the serial number of the radio in there too. A few of the CCR's look like they also do something that obscures the data too, at least I didn't see anything obvious. For Chirp to read the radio, modify the code plug and write it back requires the developer to reverse engineer the manufacture's code plug structure. The manufactures don't document this of course. Unless one is careful you can easily "brick" a radio by writing junk to the wrong area in memory. If you're lucky you saved a functioning code plug to your computer first so if things go bad you can attempt to recover the radio by writing a known good code plug back in to it.

In Michigan it looks like we have 2586 active licenses.

I don't make any assumptions about license class or region anymore based on the call sign. At one time if you moved to a different region you had to update your call, not anymore. You hear a region 6 call in Michigan, for example, and you might think you got some DX coming from California but its just a guy that lives across town testing out his new QRP rig. 8<(

Not all of the 2x3 call signs belong to Novice or Tech Class licensees.

The TYT-8600 will also "work" as well. However you have to "unlock" the frequency range through the software. It comes by default locked down to just the amateur bands. There is a hidden keyboard command using the programming software to allow changing the TX and RX frequency limits. This is NOT documented. I had to get the procedure directly from TYT. https://www.tyt888.com/?mod=product_show&id=39 There are two FCC ID's for this radio. One is for general Ham use while the other is for a special version just for GMRS. I'm guessing the only real difference is the firmware. POD-GMRS25 POD25W-WP I have one. The RX isn't that good on the radio, selectivity and overload issues. If you live in an area without strong transmitters this radio would likely be OK. Anyway what do you expect from a $130 CCR mobile unit. I wanted something cheap I could throw in a vehicle and plug into the 10 amp accessory outlet. There is a water proof model which would be of interest to off road and trail users for a bit more money. https://store2.rlham.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=72969&osCsid=3m9th4o282aljgm1qrmid3not1

Oh, since you indicated you’re in NE Ohio you might want to try and go to a large regional Ham Radio flea market next month. If you’re looking for new or used equipment you will likely find something there. I typically travel there with some friends up in the Detroit area to the swap. There is a large outdoor market area, and an indoor area where most of the commercial vendors are located. https://www.findlayradioclub.org/hamfest

It’s never to late to get started.

I used a BNC connector since I can find adapters to just about any other connector type. Plus BNC’s are constant impedance types. You can easily find BNC to SMA that screws into the antenna port on handheld radios. I also find heaps of short jumper cables at swaps with BNC connectors on the end. You want your Tech Class license the test is very easy with just a little bit of study.

I have a buddy that wants to put up a Ham 70cm repeater, about the same as a GMRS one but a bit lower in frequency, when the site is ready. He spent over $300 on a USED multi-bay folded dipole antenna for it.

I built almost exactly the same thing using some old PCB type BNC connectors. All the wires were soldered on, no screws. Surprising how well a 1/4 works, and the bandwidth I got was from 430 MHz to 470 MHz at the 2:1 SWR points.

As far as showing location on a radio’s screen I agree there with you. Now if the radio could communicate with a cheap GPS unit using a wired or BT connection that would be useful. The GPS unit would use the radio to broadcast its position, and on receive it would display the location of a remote unit. All the radio effectively does is provide the wireless link between two or more GPS units.

I was looking at the radio programming software for the Kenwood TK-3170 commercial radios, seems they are a favorite for GMRS use, has a number of options to setup GPS. If you have one of the radios and the software, Edit -> Optional Features -> Common Page 1, then enable "Com port 0" by selecting GPS for the function. The "Com port 0" is the side port where the speaker microphone plugs into while "Com port 1" is an internal port used for option boards when the cover is removed on the back side of the radio under the battery pack. Some of those option boards are for voice encryption using different methods other than simple voice inversion. To setup the GPS configuration, Edit -> FleetSync -> GPS. You can select which type of GPS data is sent. There also appears to be a simple beacon mode where you can set the interval the data is transmitted. One of the memory channels can be designated as data only. When the GPS data needs to be send the radio apparently will temporarily switch to that channel just for the GPS data. In the beacon mode this could be used for field location functions along the lines of APRS for Ham radio. Some of the other settings allow the dispatch office to request the GPS data on demand, or it can be sent at the beginning of or end of PTT, radio is polled etc. So at least on this radio the GPS setup is rather flexible. Other radios may be suited for just dispatch used as you mentioned.

Likely something like these Chinese duplexers? http://409shop.com/409shop_product.php?id=104460

There are “export” radios that do AM, FM and SSB now. Not legal on 11M but the engineering is already done. Just restrict the frequencies to the legal 40 channels and power limits the manufacturers are all set.

I think that's a mistake too. Consider the following. There are only 8 repeater channels for GMRS. For some, like me, there is only one active repeater in the area. Now if you have several radios with the GPS beacon going off on the repeater output frequency from radios in close proximity to you that would really screw with the reception. I've already had to put up with neighborhood kids on FRS radios on the repeater output frequency close by playing for several hours. You don't have the option to switch to another channel. It won't take too many to really ruin things. Worse somebody could be doing the beaconing on a repeater.

Or a fanny pack with a good LFP battery pack and adapter to use the PG-31 12 volt charger plugged into it.

So far the only Kenwood HT's I have that are usable on GMRS that seem to support the GPS speaker microphones are the TK-3170/3173, TK-3180 and TK-3360. The first 3 models seem to be a popular choice for GMRS. I'm sort of surprised the TK-3140 doesn't have any support. The TK-3360 is only a 16 channel radio but it does have the support. The older version of it, TK-3160, doesn't support GPS either. If the radio supports GPS data then under the "Optional" settings on one of the tabs there is a section for "Com port number". One of the function selections is for GPS.

I went through my electronic library of documentation for my Kenwood radios looking to see what data transmission ability they have if any. It looks like there are two speaker microphone models that have a built in GPS receiver, KMC-48GPS and KMC-38GPS. http://manuals.repeater-builder.com/Kenwood/kmc/KMC-38GPS_B51-8768-00.pdf http://manuals.repeater-builder.com/Kenwood/kmc/KMC-47-48GPS_B51-8930-00.pdf These should work with most models of Kenwood’s UHF HTs used on GMRS. The programming software for some of them has provisions for setting the radio up for TX’ing location data. At the moment I’m not sure which models. The NX-820HG mobile, not currently being used, I have has a built in GPS receiver already. So, if it gets approved, and finding one of the above allows you to use the soon to be expanded, hopefully, functions one can up grade their radio(s).

I think digital on GMRS is going to happen sooner or later. The real question is what protocol should be used. It might even pay to ask for a few more channels that are exclusive digital only while leaving the current set for FM to maintain compatibility with existing radios.

For some people it isn’t about the cost. It’s the satisfaction of building something yourself and the knowledge gained doing it. I’ve picked up cheap magnet mounts at swaps along with some generic whip elements that screw in to them. I wanted a cheap and quick 1/4 wave antenna for the Ham 1.25M band. Didn’t take much to trim one down using the antenna analyzer. Also doing some simulations it looks like a 1/4 wave could be made to cover the Ham 2M band and the MURS channels. The same with the Ham 70cm band and GMRS. The later I built using a cheap BNC circuit board socket and stiff bus wire. I can cover the frequency range of 430 MHz to 470 MHz with under a 2:1 SWR with a nearly 1:1 match at 450 MHz. I have one I use at the office on the top of a bookcase. Another one I used tie-wraped on the top of an old baseball type hat at the Dayton Hamvention a few years ago. Worked much better than the rubber duck antenna with the radio hanging on the waist. Sure I could have purchased them, but where’s the fun in that?

So now if FM is allowed on 11M some agreement would be needed to keep those users from interfering with AM and SSB users. That could be informal or put into the rules by the FCC. There is sort of one now where SSB is primarily used on the upper channels. I’m also wondering how much of the push to allow FM on 11M is a marketing thing by COBRA to protect their market share since Midland is pushing GMRS and the advantage of FM over AM in the overland community. By allowing FM that takes one of the advantages away Midland says they have by switching to GMRS. I don’t see the FCC allowing automatic TX of GPS data on GMRS/FRS. There aren’t that many channels to begin with to let them get cluttered up with periodic automatic data transmissions. For people that scan the channels it would be very annoying to have the radio stop every few minutes on random channels due to short burp of GPS data. Further the radio would need a mandatory BCL, busy channel lockout, to stop any interference when a channel is in use.