Lscott

What you really want to know is which type is it. TK-8180-K1 (FCC ID's K4437313210 and K4437313110) TK-8180-K2 (FCC ID's K4437313220 and K4437313120) You can check the detailed FCC certifications by typing in the above FCC ID's into the following website, then click on search. https://fccid.io/ The difference is the "band split", the frequency range over which the radio is specified to work. The -K1 type is either a 450 MHz to 512 MHz or a 450 MHz to 520 MHz model depending on if its the lower or higher power model. Both are FCC Part 95 certified, legal to use for GMRS. The -K2 types are only certified as Part 90 radios. Both types will do wide or narrow band FM. Before buying a radio I normally do a search for the manufacture's sales brochure. They are a good source to see what the general features and the technical specifications are for the radio in question. In your case look here. This saves a lot of time asking for info. http://www.swscomm.com/kenwood/TK-7180_8180.pdf When buying a used radio make absolutely sure you look at a photo of the radio's name plate, which shows the exact model type, FCC ID and serial number. It's not uncommon for sellers to screw up the description, in at least one case for me a deliberate case of misrepresentation, the seller shipped a radio that did not match the name plate on the one in the ad photos, different band split which was totally useless for my needs, I did get a full refund through eBay. In another case the radio was not FCC certified, no FCC ID, it was an European type that required a different version of the software to program it, which was hard to find. That radio works fine but is an odd ball in my collection. The code plugs from the US and European types of the same base model are not interchangeable so I have to maintain two versions for this one. One more thing about buying used radios, passwords. Almost, if not all, commercial radios can be password lock preventing the radio contents from being read out, which almost nobody really cares about, and the second prevent the radio from being reprogrammed with a new code plug. If you get a radio with a write password, and you don't have a version of the programming software with an "Engineer's" level install key, you can't load a new code plug in the radio. Your only options is find somebody who has the software to bypass the password or take it to a radio shop, or Kenwood service, pay a ridiculously high bench fee for the tech to do 5 minutes of work clearing out the old passwords. I've had a few radios like this that where I have the software to bypass the passwords for those models. The seller may not even know if the radio is password locked or not. You can ask before purchasing and see if they know for sure or not.

These are the brochures for the TK-2160/3160 and the TK-2360/3360 radios. http://astralcommunications.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/TK-2160_3160.pdf https://www.kenwood.com/usa/Support/pdf/TK-2360_3360.pdf

My favorite Kenwood models, for VHF use, are the TK-2170's followed by the TK-2140's. The UHF versions work fine on the Ham 70cm band and should work down to about 440 MHz which covers most of the simplex section and the repeater section of the band. The radios may function lower. You'll need to test your radio and see what it will function down too. https://www.icomamerica.com/en/amateur/amateurtools/US-BandPlan-Update-1-2020.pdf The UHF models come in several band splits, most common is the 450 to 490 MHz or so ones. There are some other radio models that work from 400 to 470 MHz, but seem to be really rare to find. The 16 channel radios are OK if you want something simple to use. They're good for programming in your local repeaters, keeping in a glove box or handing out to family members. There are 2, 4 and 8 channel radios out there but personally I'm not interested in those due to limited channel capacity. The 16 channel models I would consider as the minimum usable. The issue with any of the commercial radios is they DO NOT have a VFO like a Ham specific HT would. Some of the radios can be modified for "front panel programming", which requires removing a diode or resistor from a circuit board plus enabling it in the software, but the actual programming must be done to an empty memory channel. The procedure is rather cumbersome and covered in detail in the radio's service manuals. I've never modified any of my radios, easier to use the software. One work around however is to program a sequence of memory channels using the channel spacing for the band used. On UHF it's typically 25 KHz. So I would start at lets say 440.000 then the next memory channel is 440.025 etc. The channel name would be the frequency like 440-000, 440-025 etc. That gives a decent simulation of a VFO using a fixed step size. The radios have "zones" where you can group channel memories together. For the simulated VFO I stick them all in their own zone labeled "SIMPLEX" for example. The better radio for this is the TK-2140/TK-3140 series since they have a total of 250 memories. The 128 channel radios it gets a little cramped. https://pdfs.kenwoodproducts.com/9/TK-2170&3170Brochure.pdf The below is the same as the TK-3170 but has trunking, which you'll never use, and uses the same software. Works very well for GMRS too. https://pdfs.kenwoodproducts.com/12/TK-3173BrochureRev.pdf The below radios use the multi pin connector, like some Motorola radios, for the speaker mic's and programming. http://www.swscomm.com/kenwood/TK-2140_3140.pdf There are some higher end Kenwood radios that you'll end up paying more for used with extra features you'll likely won't use except for the higher channel capacity. https://pdfs.kenwoodproducts.com/10/TK-2180&3180Brochure.pdf The below radio is like the TK-3170 but has a more basic feature set. https://sieuthimasomavach.vn/upload/tk22123212-brochure.pdf Whatever you buy DO NOT purchase any Kenwood "Protalk" radios. They are normally only 2 watts and come setup with a list of programmed frequencies to select from, which you can't change. The frequencies are all from the business pool, none are useful for Ham or GMRS use. You'll see these being sold at times with what looks like a good deal, until you discover the limitations, then they end up in the junk draw. Fortunately I did my research before purchasing when looking at an unfamiliar radio model to add to my collection and avoided the mistake. If you're interested in Motorola, Icom or Vertex commercial radios there are some experts here on the forum, I'm not one of them.

If you're interested in the Kenwood VHF models many will cover 136 to 174 MHz natively, no out of range warnings from the software. These are great for Ham 2M band, MURS, NOAA weather and the VHF marine channels. Of course the radios only have Part 90 certifications so user beware. They are also somewhat harder to find and seem to command a higher price used. The newer replacement for the TK-3160 is the TK-3360. It has a few extra features plus 5 watts output on UHF compared to the TK-3160's 4 watts. Both are 16 channel radios, but neither are Part 95 certified, just Part 90, however. If that doesn't matter they make great basic GMRS radios that a kid can use without screwing up the settings when programmed right.

I've experimented with a thin walled fiberglass mast in a heavy duty speaker tripod mount for a temporary setup. There is an AL-800 dual band telescoping antenna on the top. The top tubing section was a bit thin so I removed. As it is now I get the antenna up about 20 feet when mounted on the tripod. If its a bit windy a few 6 inch tent stake spikes with some nylon cord works to guy the mast so it doesn't blow over. https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/mfj-1911 The antenna seems to match up OK on the GMRS channels when the coax is attached. No ground plane is needed thus reducing the wind load. https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/pry-al-800 The mast pops out of the tripod and will collapse to about 4 feet. The tripod folds up to about the same dimension. Without any guy wires I can setup the whole thing in about 10 minutes. I ran RG-58 cable up to the antenna. While a bit high on losses it is light weight and I'm not running the cable far anyway. I made the trade off with higher losses to get a light weight easy to setup and transport portable antenna system. If I have to I can use a 30 to 40 watt FM only amp that needs 4 to 5 watts drive power from an HT while drawing maybe at most 6 to 7 amps DC current, low enough to supply from a modest sized 12 volt battery. For Ham use a Mirage dual band BD-35 amps works. For GMRS a wide band amp is necessary. One from BTECH will work, however it is not Part 95 certified. https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/mir-bd-35 https://www.miklor.com/COM/Review_DMR-Amps.php https://baofengtech.com/product/amp-u25d/ If you look around you can find good deals on the above used. I picked up a BD-35 and a U25D for $100 total at a recent Ham Radio flea Market.

I have a Ham Radio buddy that is interested in a cheap P25 radio mainly for monitoring public safety frequencies. The downside in many public safety departments run encrypted so you won't hear anything without the keys. I stumbled on a series of posts concerning NXDN. Apparently each radio has a unique ESN, electronic serial number, that a trunked radio system can verify. If I remember right a radio that is not authorized on the system will hear NOTHING. The software for setting up the system requires getting a key file for the radio and a license key from Kenwood to enable a radio on a trunking system. Sort of takes the fun out of using a radio just to monitor a system. I guess that was the goal to maintain security.

I haven't made any of my own screen protectors. I do look for radio cases that have a screen cover. A number of my used radios obtained had noticeable scratches on the plastic screen. I found out that using tooth paste as a rubbing compound will take out the scratches if done right. It does take a lot of rubbing and the right technique to get good results but it does work.

That just reminds me of a post elsewhere about a Ham who hated CCR's on his repeater so he setup the access tone to use exclusively MDC1200. He got a lot of negative comments along the lines of being a Motorola snob. It was his equipment. He can set it up any way he likes so long as it's legal. MDC1200 isn't exclusively a Motorola thing. Some of my basic 16 channel Kenwood HT's, TK-2360 and TK-3160, have it built in. I wouldn't mind getting a P25 radio to experiment with on the air. I just don't feel like spending $100 plus on a used one. One thing I have noticed the 800/900 MHz radios are not too expensive. The 450/490/520 MHz radios are more common and command a higher price used. The VHF radios is where the prices seem to get stupid high, likely because they are not so common and many get used on 2M in the Ham band. I would like to find another one or two TK-2170's but any I've seen have a ridiculously high price. In contrast I just got a clean looking TK-3173, the version of the TK-3170 which includes trunking, for $30 on eBay a couple of days ago. One of the reasons why I'm leaning towards DMR is I use my radios for scanning a lot, local business frequencies. A fair number have switched to DMR. With a mixed mode radio I can use on the Ham bands plus use as a scanner is attractive.

Did you ever try to push it as far as you can down into the Ham 70cm band to see where it quits? I tried that the other day with one of the Kenwood TK-3160 16 channel radios I’ve got just for fun. The radio alarmed out around 433MHz, the PLL wouldn’t lock below that. Not too bad since the official low end is spec’d at 450MHz.

I actually see 2 repeaters in Oakland county, 1 in Macomb county, 6 in Wayne county Michigan for D-Star. (9) There are 4 repeaters in Oakland county and 1 in Macomb county Michigan, 3 in Wayne county Michigan for DMR. (8) There are 5 repeaters in Oakland county and 3 in Macomb county Michigan, 4 in Wayne county Michigan for Fusion. (12) There is 1 repeater in Oakland county Michigan for NXDN. (1) There are 3 in Macomb county Michigan, 2 in Wayne county Michigan for P25. (3) The above I found in the on-line "repeaterbook.com" listings. It appears that Fusion, D-star and DMR, in that order, seems to be the ranking in the tri-county area where I live. D-Star and DMR are about even in repeater support. Other areas have different level of support. I know in Florida there is an area with a lot of NXDN repeaters. https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/feature_search.php?state_id=12&type=NXDN https://ni4ce.org/nxdn-digital-communications/ I don't know how true this is but I heard Yeasu was giving huge discounts on their System Fusion repeaters. That was the reason given for the popularity, more of a marketing thing, cheaper to put a Fusion system with the discounts than one of the others.

There are just too many digital voice modes for Ham Radio. Typically a radio will only support one. Yes I've seen some mobile LMR's that will do several but in general this isn't the norm. If you had to pick one digital voice mode which would you use? https://n5amd.com/ Also do you use or own radios for other digital voice modes? I'm not interested in any "Hot Spots". Myself I've played a tiny bit with DMR and leaning more towards it. My reason is the radios seem to be reasonably price with models available from multiple manufactures, and a healthy number of repeaters around. Kenwood terminated production on their analog/digital radio, TH-D74A, which does D-Star. So that leaves Icom for that mode. System Fusion is only available from Yeasu. https://www.dmrassociation.org/downloads/documents/White-Papers/DMR-Association-White-Paper_Benefits-and-Features-of-DMR_160512.pdf https://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-r/opb/rep/R-REP-M.2474-2019-PDF-E.pdf I have radios for D-Star, DMR and NXDN so far. I've thought about picking up a P25 radio, looks like the major choices are really old Motorola and some Kenwood gear. The newer stuff is expensive used and then finding the software to program them, Motorola mainly, is not as easy as the Kenwood stuff I have already. NXDN radios seem to be available from more than one manufacture.

This is the version the notes mentions. 1952201234_KPG-49DV4.02.zip

Look in the "Disk1" folder inside of the "KPG-49D 4.21" folder after unzipping. You should find a file with the name " Serial Number.txt" open it and then copy and paste it in to the serial number entry area. There is some interesting info I found a while back on this software. Since I don't have it installed I can't say if any of it works or not. KPG49D_Notes.txt

The old DOS software likely will only work with a REAL RS-232 port using the 16550 chip. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16550_UART DOS software typically programed the ports and other hardware directly. If the real physical chip register doesn’t exist then the software fails. The usual USB to RS-232 emulation cables work only because the software uses the drivers Windows installed. The drivers don’t emulate the physical serial chips. One other problem with DOS software is the speed of the computer. Timing routines were implemented in software so a computer that runs too fast also will cause problems. Experienced radio technicians are known to keep old slow DOS computers around with real serial port hardware to program old radios when necessary.

"No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service." That's rather confusing. I have my Part 95A FCC certified TK-3170 programmed with a bunch of Ham simplex and repeater frequencies in addition to GMRS stuff. Depending on how you interpret the above the radio may not be legally used on GMRS?

I know this is a bit late but how much of the railroad communications takes place using digital NXDN? At one time I understood the railroads were switching over to it in place of analog. https://www.scannermasterblog.com/railroads-nxdn-and-ptc/ https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/railroads-and-nxdn.362261/

The last rule change by the FCC they just "throw in the towel" in regards to what people were already doing, using those "dual service" FRS/GMRS radios without getting the required license. It was easier for the FCC to make the wide spread illegal practice legal by a rule change. Now they can ignore the issue. I expect at some point the same will be done with the use of Part 90 radios on GMRS. The FCC can't really say with a straight face they are enforcing the rules when they let the practice of using Part 90 equipment on GMRS go on, except were you pointed out, when its in conjunction with other rule violations. As discussed on the forum many times your typical name brand LMR/Part 90 radios meet and or exceed the technical specifications for GMRS. The only element missing is the official blessing by the FCC, certification. I personally expect to see the FCC sooner or later to again to "throw in the towel" on the issue. Likely with language along the lines of if it was certified for Part 90 with no front panel programming, and maybe a cut off date, its good to go, with no ambiguities. I suspect there are a LOT of Part 90 only radios being used everyday with no issues on GMRS. So long as the technical specifications, power - bandwidth - channel frequency - frequency stability - no digital - no encryption/voice scrambling, are met how would would one even know a radio was Part 90 only just from monitoring on the air? If you can't does it even really make any difference?

Not only that but the metal sub-chassis of the radio along with your hand/arm combo forms part of the ground plane. https://www.hamradio.me/antennas/ht-antenna-comparisons.html I've tried checking the SWR on a bunch of HT antennas, well the results are mixed. I got widely varying results depending on how the antenna was mounted, directly to the analyzer - SMA type magnet mount on a ground plane (yes I found one at a swap) etc. About the only ones you can reliability check are 1/2 wave types since they don't require a ground plane. I've seen a few for the Ham 2M band. I don't recall seeing anything for UHF. https://www.smileyantenna.com/product-p/14686.htm

I agree with your points. If necessary a short simple beep is enough. Personally myself I don’t use Roger Beeps either. I have used some Ham repeaters that had no courtesy tone. Trying to do a round table discussion with 3 or more people often resulted in somebody getting stepped on.

Well that depends. If the radio supports operation through a repeater it may serve a useful propose. Most repeaters have a "hang time" which can be as short a a fraction of a second to several seconds or more. The hang time function is to keep the repeater keyed up and ready without the constant COR, carrier operated relay action. The Roger Beep lets everyone on the repeater know when the other party is done so you don't have to wait for the repeater to dropout, without the usual squelch tail, before commencing with another transmission. Of course it should be a common practice to wait a few seconds before jumping in anyway. That gives another party out there a change to announce their call sign and use the repeater. At least people are not using "echo mic's" with their radios, which seems commonly used on 11M. Now that's annoying.

https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/more_info/?hazmat=7 https://www.tsa.gov/blog/2013/06/11/travel-tips-tuesday-safely-packing-batteries-your-trip

I traveled a lot through airports some years back, mid 2000's, and never had an issue with the radios. Now battery packs are another thing. I had a fanny pack with a 5Ah gell cell in it, for extended portable operation. That got a "lot of interest" because it showed up as completely black on the x-ray machine with wires coming off it to a round cylinder, 12 volt accessory socket, to use a battery charger eliminator. The TSA inspector almost had a heart attack when the accessory socket popped out like a Jack-In-A-Box, due to the coiled up wire cord, when he unzipped the fanny pack flap and slowly pulled it open. He forgot to let go of the fanny pack when it tried to throw it, otherwise it would have gone about 10 feet across the screening area. Oh well. Everybody saw what happened. And no I didn't get into any trouble and was allowed to proceed to the gate area.

The Kenwood HT's I've had direct experience with are the following: TK-370G-1 https://mra-raycom.com/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Specifications/portables/TK-270G-370G-Product-Brochure.pdf TK-3140 https://mra-raycom.com/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Specifications/TK-3140-Product-Brochure.pdf TK-3170 https://5.imimg.com/data5/MT/AL/MY-2136226/tk-3170-handheld-portable-walkie-talkie.pdf TK-3173 http://www.comspecinc.com/PDF/TK-3173.pdf TK-3180 https://pdfs.kenwoodproducts.com/10/TK-2180&3180Brochure.pdf All are Part 95 certified. Either listed as "Part 95" or "Part 95A". The 95A was the older section for GMRS whereas the new one is Part 95E, same thing. It seems like the favorite is either the 3170 or 3173. Both use the same version of the programming software and will use the cheap Baofeng type Chinese radio programming cable and accessories like speaker microphones. The other two radios also use the same plugin accessories and programming cable too. The 3140, 3170 and 3173 all use the same type battery pack and charger so if you get the different models at least you can share them saving some money. The trick is find one of the above in good condition for a reasonable price. Don't forget you will likely need an antenna, new battery pack and charger too.

They can’t let their license lapse either. If they do the FCC won’t renew it as a business and they lose any priority they enjoyed over secondary users. I have a similar issue by me. A local mall’s house keeping is operating a repeater on GMRS channel 16, yes it’s a repeater with PL tone, it’s been “tested”. The problem is their license expired in October 2015 per the FCC database. It was never renewed as far as I can tell while the house keeping staff continues to use their radios and the repeater. I’m waiting to see how long before somebody gets the idea to hijack the repeater and use it for local non mall related communications. If the mall complains to the FCC it likely will get shut down while the mall gets a $10k fine for unlicensed GMRS operations. Their other choice is pay for a regular business license, get a coordinated frequency, then get the repeater reprogram and tuned. The house keeping staff use those Motorola Mag One BPR40 radios which can easily be reprogramed. https://www.motorolasolutions.com/content/dam/msi/docs/business/products/two-way_radios/portable_radios/small_business_portable_radios/bpr40/_documents/static_files/mag_one_bpr40_brochure.pdf At least they’re not using those CLS1110/1410 radios. A number of the smaller stores their personal I’ve observed using those. You might mistake them for an FRS radio at first. https://www.motorolasolutions.com/content/dam/msi/docs/business/products/two-way_radios/portable_radios/small_business_portable_radios/cls1410/_documents/static_files/cls_specsheet.pdf