Lscott
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Posts posted by Lscott
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40 minutes ago, wayoverthere said:
my one gripe with vertex is almost every model of radio requires a different version of the cps, and some versions won't install if others are present
I have so far, just for my commercial Kenwood radios, 14 different versions installed. Some the only difference is a different "market code", North American verses European models, that have different versions of the firmware too. Examples, I have the TK-3140K's and the TK-3140M's, different versions of the CPS required. And Even the code plugs are not interchangeable, the radios have different feature sets. Then there are the TK-3170K's and TK-3170E's, same CPS but the code plugs are different, again differences in feature sets.
And for the Ham radios from Japanese and Chinese manufactures it's a big collection too.
I ended up doing a spread sheet showing which model radios use which CPS to keep things straight for all my radios.
Then there are the different battery packs and chargers....
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I would like to thank everyone for the help!
One thing I found with the programming software was the various settings for ID's talk groups etc. was set to use Hex number entry by default! Dah! I couldn't figure out right away why I couldn't enter some of the settings, my DMR ID has 7 digits, but the software allowed only 6. When I saw a note in the help file about a setting in the "Tools" menu to change the P25 section to use a different number format then I could make the entries. I have no idea if other radios and their software does both decimal and Hex number entries.
New radio and a new learning curve. 8-/
Maybe my next radio will be a cheap HT with System Fusion.
Right now I have radios for D-Star, DMR, NXDN and now P25 when it shows up.
This is the nearest P25 repeater to me at the moment. Not many around MI, OH, IN or ILL. on 70cm.
https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/details.php?state_id=26&ID=276
Repeaterbook.com is great for looking up repeaters to use BTW. Also there is a free app for the iPhone at least.
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I'm waiting to get my latest radio acquisition, a Kenwood TK-5320. Its a dual mode analog/P25 radio, from an auction at a good price. I got the 400 MHz to 470 MHz band split version, perfect for Ham Radio.
https://pdfs.kenwoodproducts.com/18/TK-5220&5320Brochure.pdf
I'm in the process of building a code plug for it using the KPG-112D V2.01 software. I have a few questions.
1. Is there any standard P25 simplex frequencies people use for P25?
2. Is a unique ID required to get on a networked P25 repeater? If so where do you get one assigned? I already have my DMR and NXDN ID's.
3. I see that talk groups are used like with DMR. Where are those listed? Are they the same as used for DMR?
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Welcome to the forum. Lots of recommendations for HT’s. It all depends on if you want new GMRS specific or used commercial radios with Part 95 certification.
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1 hour ago, RayP said:
One last thing I may have overlooked, on the window that appears on the location/coverage map, what is "ORI"?
Open Repeater Initiative.
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8 hours ago, WyoJoe said:
My guess as well is that it wouldn't be legal. With the 467 frequencies being reserved for "future" repeater inputs, I would assume transmitting on those frequencies wouldn't be legal, but the other part of the picture is the crossing of the U.S./Canada border. I'm not sure what the legalities are in that regard, other than the restricted use areas we have in the U.S.
Obviously, radio waves won't just fall to the ground at the border, so whether intentional or not, users close to the border could very well communicate with each other even if they weren't trying to.
The Canadians don't have access to the repeater input frequencies, however I haven't found anything that specifically prohibits communications using the common simplex frequencies for cross boarder communications. I could be wrong here. Anybody have any info on this?
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5 hours ago, WyoJoe said:
All of this makes me wonder about the legality of using a GMRS radio in Canada to contact other users through a repeater in the U.S.
As far as I know this isn't legal. Also the Canadian GMRS radios, at least the legal ones, don't have access to the 467 repeater input frequencies anyway.
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15 hours ago, Guest For simplex.... said:
Yes, but for simplex. If the input is 467 and the output is 462 it's duplex, so I do not see an issue. They are so vague with policies and regulations, so we just take it as it is.
That’s not really duplex. It’s simplex operation using split frequencies.
TX’ing on a 467 frequency and RX’ing on a 462 frequency, well good luck hearing anything since there is no repeater to translate the signal on the 467 frequency down to the 462 frequency you’re listening too.
Off course the other radio could be setup to do the reverse, however trying to use more that two radios just won’t work because one of the other radios will be using the wrong TX and RX frequencies in relation to the other two.
I’ve thought doing something like split frequency simplex to frustrate jammers, at some point in the past, but to accommodate more that two radios requires a more sophisticated method involving fast scanning radios, PL or digital codes to have any hope of getting it to work.
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4 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:
But maybe a trip to Disneyland's parking lot is in my future! hahaha
That’s one place I would sort of suspect to find that kind of activity. Since PMR is right there on the Ham 70cm band with the channels starting at almost the calling frequency of 446 I think it would get noticed. Things like foreign language use, no call signs, kids screaming/babbling and general screwing around on the air would be clues to unlicensed use.
Since you mentioned you’re are in the LA area I’ve read recommendations not to take your Ham or FRS radios to Mexico.
At least where I’m at here in the Detroit area there is a reciprocal agreement between Canada and the USA so operators from either country can use their radios in the other with certain ID requirements being met.
As far as I know cross boarder communications on GMRS is not allowed either between Canada and the USA. Of course there is no issue with Hams doing it on the Ham bands.
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2 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:
I was against using D*Star originally as it was ICOM proprietary software.
Back in 2016, I became aware of DMR and its use of public domain TDMA digital communications.
Having a couple of Baofengs already, with matching accessories, including the high capacity batteries, I sprung for the "low-cost" Radioddity RD-5R: a GD-77 in a Baofeng format and have enjoyed using it ever since.
I see some information about D-PMR here:
https://dpmrassociation.org/dPMR-446.html
I see lower cost HTs on eBay including a Midland model for about $70 but of course with shipping from Europe!
But I am not sure where else you are heading? US Amateurs being able to communicate with a PMR446 HT here in the States?
But as a hobbyist, include me IN!
I thought getting one would be interesting to play with on the Ham 70cm band. I found two more models from Kenwood in addition to the TK-3701.
http://www.walkietalkie.eu/documentos/catalogos/cat-en/Cat_KENWOOD_TK3401D_en.pdf
https://bhvtotaal.nl/media/productdownloads/t/k/tk-3601d_brochure.pdf
I have a TK-D340U that does analog/DMR (TDMA) and a NX-340U that does analog/NXDN (FDMA).
https://comms.kenwood.com/common/pdf/download/DMR_TK-D240V_D340U_K_letter_1124.pdf
http://comms.kenwood.com/common/pdf/download/05_nx240v_340u_K_1117_typeD added.pdf
Either one of these two radios could be programmed to communicate with a PMR/DPMR radio on the Ham Band.
What I’m not sure about is if the FDMA digital mode out of the two apparently different digital PMR modes is compatible with NXDN.
Anyway has anybody noticed these PMR radios being used by unlicensed people in the US, likely tourists visiting here?
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I was thinking if I could get one really cheap to experiment with it might be fun.
I looked on eBay to see what a high quality dual mode analog/digital PMR radio costs. In this case a Kenwood. The only one I found was pretty expensive.
My main point is has anybody stumbled across these radios being used in the US? The European 70cm Ham band runs from 430 to 440 only. Above that are other services.
The PMR446 service is the equivalent to our FRS service except they can use digital voice modes. This point should be considered whenever the idea comes up to allow digital on GMRS. The Europeans have shown it can be done and exist along side the analog only FM mode.
I’ve read on other forums warnings against US tourists from taking their FRS radios with them while visiting other countries where it isn’t legal. But some do anyway. I assume foreign visitors to the US have done the same with their PMR446 radios. I was questioning if anybody has run across an instance where this happened. And, in that area is it a big problem.
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Has anybody any experience with unlicensed use of European PMR446 and/or DPMR446 radios operating on the US Ham 70cm band? I would likely expect this around major international tourist spots like Disney Land etc.
Apparently there are 3 different modulation types used depending on radio. Narrow band FM, TDMA (aka DMR), FDMA (similar to NXDN).
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2 hours ago, n4gix said:
The three key words: "possible future use" seem to preclude use until and unless repeater operations are sanctioned.
That’s the way I read it as well.
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14 hours ago, Guest TickingMind said:
ISo to their word, it is technically legal to operate a repeater in Canada using a GMRS radio on a GMRS channel with the appropriate 5 mhz split.
Read section "A6.2.1 Channel Frequencies:". It specifically states
The following 8-channel carrier frequencies are reserved for possible future use as repeater input channels and are not available for simplex communications:
Channel Frequency
16467.5500
17
467.5750
18
467.6000
19
467.6250
20
467.6500
21
467.6750
22
467.7000
23
467.7250 -
3 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:
I can read very well. Your issue has nothing to do with Part90/95 debate but is about a dual service radios, Part 97/95. The statement stands as I wrote it. To end the debate over the issue you mentioned was getting the FCC's interpretation of the rules.
You seem to be intent on proving your point, well back it up with the FCC's point of view. Either they agree with you or they don't. In the later case you may have the opportunity to help pay down the national debt by $10K or so. It's really that simple.
At least one other poster did exactly as I suggested to you and contacted the FCC about using Part 90 equipment on a Part 95 only service, at least its on topic. We now know what the FCC thinks about Part 90 equipment being used on GMRS, he included their response in his post, regardless of how one reads the rules.
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For tracking there is a very nice FREE tracking package that runs on Windows and Linux systems.
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36 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:
"Aggrieved" operators all aghast at my posts, have bombarded me with unsolicited posts about the FCC Part 95 Rules and THEIR interpretation of the rules!
The only people whose interpretation of the rules that matters is the FCC's. To cut out all of the debate have you taken this up with your local FCC field office? If they say you're right then that's end of it. Same if they say you're wrong. The safe play is get the official interpretation of the rule(s) in question straight from them. Perhaps nobody on the forum is right. That would far more to useful to everyone than any raging debate here.
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14 hours ago, ytechie said:
I was camping on Washington Island (WI). It's north of the "thumb" in Wisconsin. Basically the northern part of Wisconsin. I was scanning for local repeaters using a Wouxun 905g and started hearing some traffic.
I tried making contact, but they said they couldn't make out what I was saying. I walked out of the woods to a nearby hill (about 20ft higher than my campsite). I made clear contact, asked where the repeater was, and my jaw dropped when I found out it was a repeater in Evanston Illinois, 230 miles away as the crow flies. It turns out they have a 200ft+ tower with a Yagi pointed north. The radio path was almost entirely over the lake.
230 miles! My mind is still blown. Anyone else done something similar?
I made some contacts on 2 meter sideband. One was between Coldwater MI and Milwaukee WI. The other was between the Detroit area MI and Toronto Canada. Both running 50 watts into a M-Squared loop antenna on the roof of the van I had at the time.
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On 8/7/2021 at 12:09 AM, kirk5056 said:
Why do so many people come to my beloved GMRS and then try to find ways around the rules? Even if YOU dont like them or YOU think you are so special you need not follow them, those rules are what makes GMRS the best option for the two-way radio community that uses it.
Maybe you need to be on ham, where they seem to accept out of the box ideas. Or maybe you need to join the yahoos on CB 6, where rules dont apply. But, I feel, GMRS is well crafted for what it does. I know you will never get caught but you could just accept our rules and be a good radio citizen.
Unfortunately the attitude exhibited by some people doesn’t change until they personally experience the negative consequences of somebody else who feels the rules don’t apply to them. And even then they still might not get it.
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3 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:
In the "old days" we would get out our portable "T-antennas" and rabbit hunt until we triangulated the location and were sure to bring a heavy coax cutter with us!
A small stick pin in the coax up out of the way and sniped flush works good too.
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1 hour ago, MichaelLAX said:
I sincerely believe that you feel that an analogy where people's lives are put in danger on our highways is the same "danger" as a licensed Ham using a Part 95 GMRS transceiver on the Ham radio bands!
I was at my Ham Radio coffee break last night. One of the topics for discussion concerned a local CB operator running hugely excessive power. The interference was so bad that a nearby hospital had the FCC track down the source because it was buggering up some of the heart monitors they used on patients causing them to malfunction.
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15 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:
Another badge-carrying member of the Part 95 Police!
Everyone should encourage compliance with the rules. They're not there for an arbitrary reason. The RF spectrum is a limited resource. The rules are set to try and minimize interference between ALL users of the shared resource.
I would encourage you to take a look at the frequency layout for the FRS/GMRS channels, the permitted band widths and power level. What you will immediately notice are the interstitial frequencies lie between the GMRS main channels. In particular the interstitial channels 8 through 14. Those are limited to 0.5 watts and narrow band to minimize interference to the adjacent wide band GMRS repeater input channels. Even at a narrow band width those still overlap the wide band repeater channels. In fact several repeater owners on this forum have commented about interference from FRS radios buggering up things on their systems even with radios that are complaint with the rules.
Then there is the issue with dirty radios, the CCR's are the group most likely to be the offenders. If for example one was transmitting on lets say channel 1, 462.55 MHz, the second harmonic would be at 925.15 MHz, right in the middle of the 900 MHz ISM band.
https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/compendium/0902.00-0928.00_01MAR14.pdf
I had a buddy do the known code plug hack on a cheap Baofeng BF-888S UHF radio to operate on VHF too. It worked. He had a dual band radio that would SIMULTANEOUSLY transmit on the 2M and 70cm band! That ended that experiment quickly.
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14 hours ago, WRNP596 said:
Maybe the employee's of the mall don't even know the license expired.
I'm sure they don't. They're non technical people and the radios are just another tool they use to do their job cleaning up the place. They were likely told you need to contact somebody use this.
- H8SPVMT and AdmiralCochrane
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Check here and see if any of these might work:
http://rsws.zapto.org/RadioSoftware/Kenwood/Kenwood.htm
http://www.sm5nvc.se/erak/mod/index.php?path=rig%2Fprg%2FKenwood/
I would suggest you download them and try. Just because it says "KPG70D" doesn't mean it really isn't the version you need. I've run into that several times.
Using the software make sure you select the right model. Usually there are multiple to pick from, like TK-8102K, TK-8102M etc. Close won't work.
I checked my listings for software version and they all show KPG-70D should work.
Which digital voice mode do you prefer?
in Amateur Radio (Ham)
Posted
Yup, you’re not alone.
The TK-5320 has a used battery pack and charger base, but no antenna which I have plenty of anyway. I think I already have several battery packs that fit this radio I got with some of the other used radios I’ve purchased. The seller guarantees the radio is functional. I paid $110 for it on eBay, cheaper than just about any of the other P25 radios I saw.