Lscott
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Posts posted by Lscott
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6 hours ago, gman1971 said:
I think the Motorola DTR radios are a far better option than that overpriced CCR POS... You can buy two used DTR700 for that if you look around in eBay.
DTR radios: License free, full digital, secure FHSS transmissions, with real privacy keys, and range to boot, certainly more than that turd.
G.
I've looked briefly at those. I might consider getting one or two if I can find a super good deal just to experiment with them. I don't have any 900 MHz radios. I looked at the Kenwood TK-481's but the radio's internal IF filters kill the signal once you drop below the upper band limit. To make them really functional they need to be replaced. Second, you need a utility to put in the real frequencies since the FCC requires the use of channel numbers I believe. Not convenient for Ham use.
https://www.qsl.net/kb9mwr/projects/900mhz/plan.html
I noticed there is a code plug hack to modify the XPR6550 800 MHz radios. I think I can find those fairly cheap.
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Oh, it's the 400 to 470 MHz band split model. Perfect for Ham Radio's 70cm band and also covers the FRS/GMRS channels too when running analog FM.
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If you shop carefully you can find some good deals. I got this one eBay for $110 on an auction I won, it's a TK-5320.
https://comms.kenwood.com/common/pdf/download/TK-5220_5320_Specsheet.pdf
The radio looked like new, didn't have a scratch on it anywhere, not even a finger print on the display cover. I had to get a power brick to go with the charger base and the radio came with a used 3300mAh Li-Ion battery pack.
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4 hours ago, WRNA236 said:
How did your buddy program them? I'd have figured he'd be including CPS.
Anyway, there's ways to work around band limits on many Motorola radios (even 1st gen XPR). It requires reading the radio and changing variables in that blank, generic code plug with a hex editor. You can edit and write the modified code plug all you want.
The pain is it makes using CPS no longer a completely seamless affair in the future. If you don't have access or lose the original code plug file when you read the radio CPS will revert the code plug back to the default band limits for the radio and you have to start back at square one with hex editing.
It's also important to note that just because two radios are both UHF the different band splits mean they may not necessarily be identical. So extending the limit up or down a couple of MHz is usually fine but forcing a 450-512 down to 403 might be way beyond the filter skirts and not work even if you trick the radio into tuning it. If you're just trying to make a radio tune for RX it shouldn't hurt anything. It may not be very sensitive way out of band though. Now trying to transmit that far out of band might be damaging, you need to be careful.
My buddy didn’t program the radio. He purchased it from another Ham who had gotten it from a guy that worked for the FBI, I believe he said, tonight at our weekly coffee meet.
I’ve seen a person selling a service doing exactly what you mentioned, hacking the code plug, in this case to drop the lower limit to 440 from the normal 450.
I’ve hacked some Kenwood code plugs, the ones I played with used simple XOR encryption, to see what they really contain. The idea was to hack a code plug for one of the cheap ProTalk radios, the ones where you can only select frequencies from a predefined list, to enter some GMRS channels. I don’t have one so I sort of dropped the idea for now.
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6 hours ago, n4gix said:
I wouldn't touch any radio from which the original tags had been removed...
Check it out.
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3 hours ago, timokirschner said:
Related to the above topic I have a question about legality.
Is it FCC compliant if I use a FCC compliant hand radio and (at home) use a 35 Watt amplifier to transmit on the high power GMRS channels with the aforementioned Btech AMP-25?
I have a GMRS license.
If you can find the FCC ID look it up and see what certifications it has, likely just Part 90.
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3 hours ago, n4gix said:
I have CPS V16 build 827 that I use for my XPR7550 and XMR5550 UHF radios. I can understand the consternation since it has a TON of stuff that we won't need and would never have use. It's simply cluttering up the UI.
It is primarily aimed a DMR usage, but is quite adequate for analog use as well.
For the best source of information on Motorola, visit Batwing Laboratories (batlabs.com)
The version I found on-line has some modified DLL files to enable the Canada full frequency range for programming anything above 866MHz for radios in that part of the UHF band, enabling the 25/20 KHz bandwidth and by-passing any code plug passwords that might be set.
The password thing looks like it works because I downloaded a sample template. Using the RM app, I think I tried, to edit the template it wanted a password. I followed the patch instruction to type in anything and it will work, which it did.
After playing with the Radio Manager app I have to agree it's NOT for working with just a few radios, but a rather large fleet. I had it installed so might as well play with it. Looks like I can just ignore it now.
The Motorola stuff works different than any of the other CPS systems for my other radios.
I do have the D878UV and built a code plug from scratch with both analog and DMR channels. That got me somewhat familiar with DMR concepts. Looks like most of that applies to the Motorola radios. Just have to sort out whatever the differences are in the terminology. At least the help files aren't too bad.
I'll be talking to my buddy about buying his XPR6550 if he doesn't want way to much for it. Some of the used ones on eBay look pretty good price wise, at least not crazy expensive.
One thing I quickly found out using the Motorola CPS, when they say the frequency range for a given model is 403 to 470, they mean it. You can't enter anything outside of that range. Kenwood radios are not like that. They will let you enter in an out of range frequency but you have to click through a warning message each time you do it.
Looking at used XPR6550's on eBay I'm checking the FCC ID numbers to make sure exactly whats being sold. One seller has a radio up for sale, but all the ID stickers are very obviously missing. You figure out what that means.
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1 hour ago, Radioguy7268 said:
Oh, and Radio Management & templates is probably not something you want to mess with for basic codeplug builds on one or two radios. As you surmised, it's more of a fleet management tool. It is good if you want to push out OTAP codeplug updates to 100+ radios, without having to lug around a laptop and cables to touch each radio.
I'm with you on that account.
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For GMRS all you really need is a 1/4 wave antenna. That's about 6 inches long. The multi-band antenna won't do you much good unless you have a multi-band radio. The antenna is physically longer because it's likely designed to work on the VHF band where the frequency is lower and thus you need a longer antenna to be resonate. Stay away from the ultra short ones too, those seems to be around 3 to 4 inches long, and will defiantly be inferior to the normal 1/4 wave design.
If you're the kind of person who likes to sit the radio upright on a table to monitor the longer antenna makes the radio more prone to falling over.
Be vary careful buying cheap antenna off sites like Amazon, eBay etc. They are full of counterfeit antennas with packaging that looks almost identical to the real deal. Nagoya antennas seem to be one of the favorite ones that get counterfeited.
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8 hours ago, maddogrecurve said:
Can you program them from the radio itself?
Best thing is look in the service manual. If its possible the manual will explain how its done. Looking briefly it appears the answer is no to your question.
http://manuals.repeater-builder.com/Kenwood/tk/TK-8360/TK-8360(H)(K2_M2)_B51-8964-00.pdf
As a matter of practice I spend time hunting down all the relevant documentation, in PDF format, for any radios I have or plan on buying. I have a library of folders for each radio/model series with user guides, service manuals, notes, FCC grants, modifications if any and manufactures brochures. The last one is the first thing I look for when thinking about purchasing a used radio. Excellent source for features, exact frequency ranges, on UHF it's common to have more that one, number of memory channels etc. If I don't like what I see then I've saved myself some money by not getting something I won't like or can't use.
https://pdfs.kenwoodproducts.com/30/TK-7360HV-8360HUBrochure.pdf
- duckduck, SteveShannon and kipandlee
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I'm thinking about maybe adding some Motorola radios to my collection. Looking to buy a buddy's UHF XPR6550, and later adding in the VHF version. Before doing so I want to be sure I can even program Motorola radios, otherwise they'll just be expensive paper weights.
I located and installed Mototrbo CPS V16 build 828, with the wide band (25/20 KHz) and full Canadian frequency hack. It seems to work but is considerably different than any other radio programming software I've used. My question is there any good written training materials for download showing how to use it? The actual code plug editor I'm sort of figuring out, playing with one of the sample code plugs, but creating radio "templates" using the Radio Manager app I'm getting nowhere with it. I added what I think are some radios but I can't seem to locate or add in the so-called templates.
The software looks like the aim is for fleet management of radios. Maybe it's just not what I should be worrying about.
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Business band type radios like the Kenwood's do not use offsets. If you look at the radio programming software there are two entries for frequencies. One is strictly used for receiving and the other is just for transmitting.
For example you want to use a repeater the receive frequency would be 462.675 and the transmit frequency is 467.675.
There are two tones which you can use, separately, also for receiving and transmitting. The transmit tone is the "ENC" while the receive tone is "DEC". You don't have to use a receive tone. I never use them, just the transmit tone. That way I don't care what tone the repeater transmits, I'll still hear it.
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2 hours ago, maddogrecurve said:
Oh, I also made another wire 1/4 wave antenna but I stripped the plastic off and straightened the wire by twisting it with a drill! Worked great!!!
That's actually is very well made!
VHF and UHF antennas are fun to build since they are rather small for the simpler designs. If you look around on the Internet you can find scanned PDF's of antenna design books. I'm not talking about the crazy vector calculus filled pages using Maxwell's equations either. They are basically construction projects that anybody with modest skills and tools can build.
This is just a sample of what you can on the Internet with some effort looking.
http://hamradio.uz/media/uploads/2018/04/19/arrl_antenna_book_21st_ed.pdf
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6 hours ago, n4gix said:
EDIT: I don't remember the exact number now, but as close as I can recall this took close to 4 thousand punch cards!
Yikes!!! I never learned to type, and really still can't. I get by using the two-finger method. I don't want to guess how long it took to type that many cards.
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56 minutes ago, WyoJoe said:
When I was learning FORTRAN, the turnaround time for me was around two weeks. I was in grade school, and we had to put our routines (punch cards, wrapped in a rubber band) in the school mail bag so they could be sent downtown to the mainframe (DEC PDP-11), where they would be run, the output printed out, then sent back to our school. I think the mail went out weekly, so when we got them back, we made our corrections (if needed), then re-submitted them (hopefully) before the next mail run. We didn't have many opportunities to make corrections before the school year ended!
I remember when some student used the wrong device code for the output in his FORTRAN assignment. Instead of going to the line printer his data was send to the card reader/punch. Yup, you guessed it. Every source deck after that one was punched full of holes destroying them. Fortunately my job ran before that one. They had a female student retyping all the source decks like a demon on the computer center's key punch machine. That's provide you could read the code printed on the top edge, most of the ribbons were worn out and almost impossible to read.
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26 minutes ago, wayoverthere said:
I wouldn't doubt it. Waiting for that last programmer familiar with COBOL to be available, perhaps?
Now try learning FORTRAN and doing your assignments using a keypunch machine to type up your source deck. Oh, provided they even worked, which was about half the time. Everything was batch processed with a typical 4 to 5 hour turn around time. That was for my engineering degree.
Yuck. I remember I had to take a programming class in COBOL for my computer science degree. At least the school had a VAX cluster by then with terminals. You could even dial in from home and log into your account to do your programming projects.
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26 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:
Two impulse buys: The Baofeng BF-888 for less than $15 including sales tax and free shipping from Amazon and the Baofeng BF-T1 for less than $21 including sales tax and free shipping from eBay.
I will probably just program them with my default "Chirp" file, connect them (one at a time) to my rooftop Comet and see how it compares in performance to hitting my favorite repeaters...
And then they will go into the pile of UV-5Rs that I already own! hahaha
That 6 meter Wouxun dual-bander HT looks interesting, though... My teenage years were spent on 6 meters AM enjoying the unpredictable skip!
I have a Kenwood TK-2160 coming from an auction. The seller said it worked fine last time he used it 2 years ago when he stored it. Now it doesn’t. He said the battery pack likely failed. It was a NiCAD pack suiting for 2years I’m not surprised. For $22 including shipping for the radio, antenna, charger and a likely failed battery pack it’s not bad.
These radios make excellent MURS radios, even if they’re not certified for it. They can be programmed to be compliant however, power, frequencies and bandwidth.
http://www.telectronics.biz/assets/mainmenu/59/editor/PDF_leaflet_TK-3160.pdf
With 16 channels there is plenty of room for the 5 MURS channels and the 7 NOAA channels with a few left over.
The UHF version could be used for GMRS. Enough channels to stick your local repeaters in it and a few of the simplex channels.
Doing some careful shopping you can get these radios for a decent price.
All the CCR radio type accessories work on them including the programming cable, just not the battery packs or chargers. The programming software is fairy easy to find on the internet and will work on Win 10.
I’m thinking about buying a buddy’s Motorola XPR6550. I currently don’t have any Motorola stuff so it will be a learning curve.
http://www.streammktg.com/stream/images/specs/TRBO Portables/XPR6000 Series Product Spec Sheet.pdf
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5 hours ago, pcradio said:
Its a waste of hardware and resource to need so many radios to accomplish what is a simple software setting. Make a big warning appear when you turn on 2/70 or other bands. Installing three radios in the truck is just silly and wasteful. The FCC needs to do better on this front.
Yeah, I suppose one could simply buy a cheap Chinese dual band radio that does Ham 2M, MURS, VHF marine, VHF railroad, VHF NOAA weather channels etc. frequencies, then it can also do the Ham 70cm band, various government and public safety UHF frequencies, UHF FRS, UHF GMRS, UHF business band frequencies etc. for $25 through Amazon. Of course the people who buy it won’t know, or care, about the difference between a megahertz or millimeter. That happened with those combo FRS/GMRS radio a few years ago. They included clear instructions that a license was required to use channels above 14. Nobody cared and nobody bothered to get the license either. With your suggestion nobody is going to be dissuade by a warning tone, message etc. They’re going to press that PTT button all the same as proven by past experience.
At least by requiring different radios the potential for mass interference is reduce because the hardware, along with the firmware, limits the operation to a particular service. As long as people act stupidly, or irresponsibly, you get these government regulations. Is it efficient? No. But that isn’t the aim of the regulations either.
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1 hour ago, kb2ztx said:
The issue is as said before the guys that run P25 want good comms and is a good way to keep a limited user set on the air for the reasons you stated. Many that are running CCR wont spend 500-600 on a P25 radio so we keep the users to good quality radio gear. For me I've been in public safety for years. Why have yet another radio in my truck when al my radios are P25 already. You will find alot of the good high end P25 sites are run by a guy who is in public safety or around it enough to see the benefits of the money invested. Nothing against DMR but with the CCR world adding DMR its puts more junk on the air that I dont want to deal with. As said i know some out there are linked and some guys like that. you will also find some linked to other P25 repeaters but no real network talk groups. Basically are linked to give better range on the system.
One other way to get some exclusivity is picking something like NXDN. Haven't seen any CCR's doing that digital mode yet. I have two radios for it already. One is an HT, NX-340U the other is a mobile, NX-820HG, a freebie from a buddy who didn't want it.
https://comms.kenwood.com/common/pdf/download/05_nx240v_340u_K_1117_typeD added.pdf
https://comms.kenwood.com/common/pdf/download/10_NX-720HG&820HGBrochure.pdf
Both are the 400-470 MHz band split.
There is only one repeater around the Detroit area that is listed as being NXDN enabled. In fact it's the only one listed in the whole sate using "repeaterbook.com" to check.
https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/details.php?state_id=26&ID=390
I know there is a pocket of NXDN activity in the Florida area.
https://ni4ce.org/nxdn-digital-communications/
For P25 these are the only ones listed.
https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/feature_search.php?state_id=26&type=P25
The one closest to me I have equipment for it the machine listed for Warren.
https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/details.php?state_id=26&ID=276
So between the two modes, P25 and NXDN, nether one is widely used around here.
The popular digital modes in Michigan are D-Star, DMR and System Fusion.
There is a wide area coverage System Fusion machine in the down town Detroit area. The antennas are on top of the current GM head quarter building at 775 feet AGL.
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1 minute ago, wayoverthere said:
I guess we'll see on the stability. I feel like the groups that go to the effort of linking are likely to be mlthe more stable, less likely to jump to the next cool thing, but who knows. I've been keeping an eye for some p25 mobiles; most of what i see is Motorola, but a lot of that is 700/800...I've seen a couple "p25 capable" icom, but looked like actually getting the capability would run in the $600's.
Interestingly, there's more p25 repeaters in my area than D-star and Fusion combined. Haven't actually looked into DMR, though I probably should, as I think the EVXs I have are capable. For back to back testing, I have jumped back and forth between the p25 and the analong on the same channel, and it was minor but detectable better on p25.
I guess I got lucky with the P25 radio I purchased.
This is the original item listing reference number on eBay.
294333278387
I think you can go here and enter the above number. That should bring up the original listing.
I spend a lot of time checking eBay using my saved searches to see if anything new pops up for the models I'm looking to buy. If it looks like a good deal I have to spring for it quick before somebody else notices it. That's how I snagged a TK-D340U 32 channel Kenwood DMR radio for around $40 to $50. The same thing happened with a Kenwood NX-340U 32 channel radio for NXDN for $50. Never saw any deals that good since.
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4 minutes ago, wayoverthere said:
It really depends on the repeaters, to be honest. It looks like a number of the p25 machines on my area are linked, either smaller local stuff (n6lye), down state (KERN), or to the coast (w6dxw, which has some both here and on the coast). Maybe linked is just a bigger thing in CA with the fires and quakes.
I won't say there's nothing with talkgroups yet, but I haven't gotten that far into it to say one way or the other. Will have to see what I can find online.
True.
The P25 activity might pick up with time. I'm guessing that's simply because DMR is becoming more popular. Once people get bored with it they'll jump on the next thing that looks cool and carries some prestige as being unique or rare. Then the cycle starts all over again with repeater networking etc.
P25 might also become more popular when more of the business, and particularly government users, switch over to P25 Phase 2 equipment. All the P25 Phase 1 stuff will get dumped on the surplus market.
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3 minutes ago, wayoverthere said:
Good point(s). I'm just still a little bigger why they felt the need to throw that limitation of no combining anything with murs.
In general the FCC doesn't like combing different services together. In the case of FRS and GMRS they had already screwed that up years ago by allowing the marketing of dual service FRS/GMRS radios. Almost NOBODY ever got the GMRS license when purchasing those combo bubble-pack radios. The FCC had to throw in the towel and make what was already common practice legal by changing the rules back in 2017/2018. Then they could wash their hand of any enforcement issues.
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4 hours ago, kb2ztx said:
The majority of the P25 repeaters dont offer parrot mode or talkgroups. there are some on the east coast using P25NX and do have a couple talkgroups, defined by NAC code but those are limited. Im sure there are some out ther using alot of stuff on P25 but I've not come across any in my travels. My P25 repeaters are local and no internet connections. My goal was quality radio comms and not talking across the US...
Thanks. It's good to get another perspective on things. I guess if there isn't going to be much P25 activity around by me or any repeater linking the radio makes for a really nice fancy analog FM one. 8-( I was watching a really short video earlier where a guy was using what looked like a almost new NX-300 just for GMRS while ignoring the digital half, NXDN, of the radio.
https://comms.kenwood.com/common/pdf/download/02_NX-200G&300GBrochure.pdf
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1 hour ago, wayoverthere said:
Otherwise, gmrs/Murs in one radio would be a no brainer.
Actually FRS/MURS would be a better fit. Just have to use a fixed mount antenna. Most of the channels on FRS are already 2 watts. All the MURS channels are also 2 watts. Both services are license free provided one uses FCC certified radios. This would give the average everyday user up to 27 channels split between FRS and MURS.
This allows the user to pick which band works better under the current conditions without carrying two radios or having to pick one over the other, and maybe getting poor results because it was the wrong choice. There is a reason why dual band VHF/UHF radios are so popular in the Ham world for example.
- WRPC505, wayoverthere and WRMH343
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Review first MURS mobile radio
in Multi-Use Radio Service (MURS)
Posted
I don't make the rules. I just offered an explanation. One is always free to contact the FCC and petition for a rule change. It's been done many times before.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/1.401
https://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/rulemaking-process