Lscott

No, but you can download the brochure for it here. https://www.icomamerica.com/en/downloads/DownloadDocument.aspx?Document=202 It looks like a simple stripped down GMRS radio, 15 channels with no display. IMHO that's way too much for a radio in this class with so few features. I would look at some of the other commercial UHF radios for that kind of money you're talking about. Myself I use a Kenwood TK-3170. These turn up for sale used for the money you're talking about with a battery pack, antenna and a charger base. The programming software is easy to find on the internet and the programming cables are cheap. https://pdfs.kenwoodproducts.com/9/TK-2170&3170Brochure.pdf

You're not licensed to use it. You know that for a fact? Did you go there and ask them to be sure? This is how it usually starts. The typical excuses: "I'm not hurting anyone" "I'm not interfering with anything" "Nobody uses the frequency anyway" "The FCC doesn't care" and so it goes. Why bother with rules when people ignore them anyway? That's how the CB 11M band ended up the mess it became in the late 70's and early 80's. And that's not talking about the freebanders above 27.405MHz. Hams can tell you all about the illegals operating on the lower end of the CW section of the 10M band.

I can’t justify it for hobby use.

That's a good suggestion. Also want to mention the loss through the duplexer could be made up with a higher gain antenna too. Some repeater owners have complained about desense on the RX section of their setup. It seems counter intuitive but DROPPING the transmit power level improved things. Think about what exactly is going on. The antenna is being used for both TX and RX simultaneously. The higher TX power also will be coupled back into the RX section. To maintain the same isolation margin would require more isolation in the duplexer. Since the duplexer hasn't changed you effectively REDUCED the gain margin as seen by the RX section..

IMHO that's driven by money. The cost of P25 radios is crazy. Looking at the used market I can buy a used digital commercial radio for just about any voice mode, except for P25, for less. Example, Kenwood's new HT's, the NX-5000 series, comes with NXDN as standard. It can be configured to do DMR and P25 by simply writing a license key to the radio to enable the feature. The attached image is from their 2022 catalog. The cost for just P25 Phase 1 conventional is staggering compared to DMR. Then if you want to add trunking for P25 you'll need some deep pockets and a fat checkbook. Because of the costs if P25 is not mandated by the state, or some other agency, people are opting for either DMR or NXDN. They are the lower cost options. To gauge who uses what mode a search of the following database returns some interesting results. The primary users of P25 seems to be various Federal, state, county and city governments. https://digitalfrequencysearch.com/index.php

I had a paper I wrote up that covers my idea in a bit more detail in another thread. I think the issue you mentioned is addressed it it. https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/5720-new-repeater-channels-for-gmrs-in-2024/page/2/#comment-57605 People get hung up on thinking that adding digital voice to GMRS is about "experimentation", no it's not. It's about quality of service which you did mention in a round about way earlier in your post.

There is another commercial modes you didn't list, NXDN and P25 Phase 1 and P25 Phase 2. Then there is one that's used commercially in the EU, dPMR and the tier-1 version for their license free dPMR446 service. dPMR isn't used in North American to any great degree that I've been able to discover to date. dPMR and NXDN are very similar but use a different protocol. https://dpmrassociation.org/downloads/2019-docs/Whitepaper-4-Level-FSK-FDMA-6.25-kHz-Technology-V1-2019.pdf https://kenwoodcommunications.co.uk/files/file/comms/uk/pmr446/PMR446-White-Paper-V6_18AUG2016_JT_KB.pdf Then there is the real oddball M17. It's billed as an amateur only mode using all open source code including for the voice codec. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M17_(amateur_radio) I just had some email exchange with the programmer for "repeaterbook.com". I had asked if he could include dPMR as one of the special modes to search by. He said he would look at it. He also mentioned that since adding in M17 there has been nearly ZERO activity or interest in it to date.

That wouldn’t be noticeable in my collection.

You don’t want to know how many HT’s I have.

I buy mainly commercial Kenwood HT’s. If I find a radio model I don’t currently own but thinking about buying I’ll research it first. Get the brochure, which is good for a summary of features for the specific sub-model types. The second is getting the programming software. If I can’t get it then I just don’t bother with getting the radio. Usually without the manufacturer’s software to program it then it’s just an expensive brick. Also want to make sure that items like battery packs and chargers are easily available too. Some people have purchased nice radios but the battery packs are almost nonexistent.

It's also commonly called a "Parrot" repeater. The way they function is the repeater will record, some seconds to a minute or so, of the input audio stream. Then on termination of the reception it will re-transmit the audio just recorded usually on the same frequency. These repeaters are less expensive due to the fact they don't need bulky and costly cavity filters, used to isolate the receiver from the transmitter, for true simultaneous reception and transmission of the audio stream. Some have built one for remote emergency communications. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o05ILiIg5o4 https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=98 The negative aspect is the delay due to the necessity of recording the input audio stream and then the re-transmission. Many people find using a Parrot repeater rather irritating due to the delay.

Is there any growing consensus, like with SSB, what channels to use for FM?

Has anyone used the new CB 11m radios on FM? Opinions?

Make sure the voice announcements are set for Chinese.

What, and contribute to more band crowding that others have been complaining about lately?!

I wouldn't equate the two. I do want to point out the somewhat frequent post where a new GMRS user wants to setup a repeater. Most have no idea what they are getting into and what the various pit falls might be. The real important question is how many of those who want a repeater REALLY need one of their own? With just 8 frequency pairs it won't take that many before interference between them becomes a problem. Perhaps the FCC could require some kind of coordination, either officially, or through a local group of repeater owners. The Ham community had a coordination group. It might even be a better idea to pool the resources from several potential repeater owners. The pooled resources are used to Install a repeater at a location with a wide area coverage and open access to reduce the need for a bunch of smaller coverage zone repeaters scattered all over a given area at random. When one looks at the cost and work required to roll your own and the small coverage zone you get with a site with poor antenna elevation the above suggestion looks better. This was done with a couple of repeaters in the Detroit area in the past several months. The additional benefit are the repeaters are link so even more of the area is covered. My understanding is another one will likely get install farther up north of the area, likely also linked too.

How about looking at this option?

The attached files are also useful. Common Emmision Mode Designators.pdf FCC Service and Station Codes.pdf

Given how small the screens are you almost have to hold it up close to see anything. The one thing all these laws show are the people who write them have little to no technical or operational knowledge of radio usage. Further what studies do they even consult, if any, to justify some of the stupid provisions in them. I just have to laugh when watching YouTube videos of cops in a high speed chase doing 90+ MPH driving ONE HANDED while calling out direction and road intersections on the radio. You can clearly see it in the body cam footage. I sure would like to know what course they took to learn how to "safely" drive like that, one handed using a radio, while the rest of us are considered a road hazard.

This also explains why manufacturers went to digital for the very narrow band channel setting, 6.25KHz, which at some point the FCC might mandate. The manufacturers claim FM using anything less than the current 12.5KHz channel spacing isn’t practical and the only way to achieve it is through digital voice technologies.

It’s a bit more complex than the above. Narrowband vs Wideband.pdf

This is exactly why the law is very poorly written. Leaving it up to the cop or judge to make a technical determination is not how the law should have been crafted. There is no “objective” standard and leaves it to the personal option of the officer or judge. That’s how laws get invalidated. Just to make it clear the law as written ONLY mentions some part of the upper body holding or supporting the offending device, nothing about the legs. I mention this because on more than one occasion I’ve had Hams tell me they send CW while driving with a Morse key strapped to their thigh. Dah?! That’s OK while a wireless BT speaker mic isn’t?

Stalin’s head of the KGB once said “show me the man and I’ll show you the crime.”

I’m guessing it’s a homemade repeater that went on the fritz. That’s why there should be a TOT, time out timer, on the transmitter. Also there should be a repeater control operator monitoring it too. The later should have the ability to remotely gain control of the repeater and disable it. I’m reminded of another story on the Ham band. There was a similar case with a continuous unmodulated signal. That case was tracked down by some Hams using DF techniques. The cause was the mobile radio’s mic got stuck in the seat back somehow where the PTT was pressed in. The owner never noticed.

No doubt about that point.