Lscott

You have some valid points. I think the issue with going digital has more to do with improved voice quality than anything else. There is some possible range improvements, likely due to digital voice modes to maintain clear communications until you reach the range limit. As you pointed out the signals propagate the same regardless of mode. I suspect the attraction of digital voice for the average non-technical GMRS user is clarity of the audio signal under conditions where analog FM will sound like crap. It's a better user experience. The issue with how to configure the radio for digital mode(s) can be addressed by restricting the options. For example all compatible radios must use the same time slot, or likely both, the group ID can be fixed (All Call), leaving leaving just the color code as an option. Remember the EU has the dPMR446 license free service. The use of DMR isn't really the only choice. I wish people would get that out of their head and consider the other modes that might be much better, simpler, from a user's view point. There are other digital voice modes requiring less setup, such as the one I just mentioned. I have the programming software for the Kenwood TK-3701D, which is an EU license free analog/PMR446 radio, just to see what it looks like. See attached file for an example of the digital half of the radio memory setup. It's really not that complex, on a par with analog FM. Part of the issue with getting the FCC to consider digital voice mode(s) will be how to fit it into the existing GMRS service given it's current limitations. DMR might not be the best idea regardless of how "popular" it is. People are using it simply because it's readily available with somewhat affordable radios. As some others have pointed out it's already causing problems. Using a different digital voice mode with some sane rule changes that can be fixed IMHO.

The rationale for pushing for digital voice modes has nothing to do with making GMRS an “Amateur Radio Lite” service. In fringe areas FM doesn’t result in clear reliable communications. Having the option to use digital voice, and the documented better received audio signal quality in conditions where FM signal quality is poor, is the point.

Hypothetically if one didn’t use the amplifier there wouldn’t be the necessity of asking the question.

You might like this idea. GMRS Digital Voice - 20220803.pdf

An in-band repeater you likely need a good cavity duplexer. Tuning one isn't so easy with the inexpensive VNA's since they lack a high dynamic range. The attached files are from my on-line library I keep on the computers and smartphone for quick easy reference. For duplexers this might prove useful. Calculating Required Isolation.pdf 468523097_RepeaterAntennaSystems.pdf Understanding Maintaining and Re-Tuning Antenna Duplexers.pdf

The next thing you're going to want is a good antenna analyzer. There are lots to choose from. Seems the favorite is a VNA, vector network analyzer. Be careful which one you buy. Some are using crappy components, poor PCB layouts and generate poor results. https://nanorfe.com/nanovna-v2.html

This is why the FCC will have to address allowing digital voice on GMRS sooner or later. It's happening with, or without, their official blessing. I would rather see digital voice incorporated officially in the rules, which hopefully will eliminate the chaos that currently exists. It also has to be coupled with some meaningful enforcement actions, at least directed towards the more frequent and flagrant violators. Right now the complaints stem from DMR operation on GMRS. However I'll bet that's not the only digital voice mode you'll find in use on the service. There are plenty of commercial radios very capable of FM and digital modes such as NXDN and P25. I have several of those and some are Part 95 certified. Just can't use the digital half of the radio. Then you have some of the modified Ham gear, MARS/CAP mod's, running D-Star and YSF. A real smorgasbord to sort out. I started a thread a while back about possible Part 95E rule changes to allow digital voice on GMRS. Seems like people don't care since the thread just died from lack of interest. Also it got derailed early on over lecturing about FHSS, which wasn't the point of the thread anyway. Oh well.

Try reading this book. It's written for the average Ham Radio operator so it doesn't get crazy with the math etc. http://www.w3pga.org/Antenna Books/Reflections III.pdf

There is a lot of misinformation and myths surrounding SWR and coax cables. I would recommend reading the book at the following link. http://www.w3pga.org/Antenna Books/Reflections III.pdf

Yup.

The chances of getting the FCC to grant more exclusive frequencies for GMRS are next to zero. We’re lucky they don’t take some away to use for Part 90 users. We’re far better off petitioning the FCC to allow digital voice modes on GMRS. The cheap FRS radios would stay the same, limited power, no repeater access and narrow band FM only. There is a thread I started on the topic 1 or 2 months back. In one of my posts there is an attached file outlining the idea.

Yes. That’s one of the major differences. It’s also the “carrot” hanging off the stick in front of the donkey to get people to pony up and pay for a GMRS license.

I wish you the best as well. My sister and her husband both went through radiation treatments. Sister was breast cancer and her husband had prostate cancer. Both are doing good fortunately. I hope you're results a in positive outcome.

You can look here at this site. Has a load of useful info on the D878 and its derivatives. http://members.optuszoo.com.au/jason.reilly1/868mods.htm

Well at least normal FM. There are some trunking systems, with distributed repeaters, where the radios will look for a repeater that has the strongest signal, or above a threshold level, and use it. The radios are programmed with the minimum signal levels which the repeater has to meet or exceed to connect.

Well it looks like you're stuck with them. Being grandfather in with a current license I think that gives them primary privileges on the frequency. At least they are legally licensed. You can request access and see what happens. The worse is they say no, which is the most likely result. The GMRS repeater by me is owned by the city of Troy Michigan. It was their backup repeater for the fire department. I don't know their current license status for it. In any case all one has to do is request access. I don't think any reasonable request has been denied. There are well over 100 users who have been granted access so far.

You check the FCC database to see if it really is grandfathered? If they let the license lapse, and didn't renew in time, the license is kaput and so is any use of it by the original business that held the expired license.

That's a cool idea. As a new Ham most start off with an HT. The question is which one to buy. This program takes the risk out of spending you money on something you later don't like. This gives the new Ham a chance to get on the air quickly.

Too bad that doesn't apply to FRS radios and their Roger beeps.

I guess you can't beat free.