Lscott
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Posts posted by Lscott
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1 hour ago, PACNWComms said:
Before the 2017 FRS/GMRS radio changes, there was a push to use FRS Channel 1 as a calling/emergency channel by many, old RadioReference forum threads mention this, and along the Washington northwest coastline, there was some traction on this. Especially when my situation took place. Another aspect in my case was the merchant marine community, and the use of radio silence clocks. This helped preserve the battery in my Garmin Rino, and a remote listening station with direction finding capability provided a vector. The helo flew that vector and when my Rino was in range of their Rino radio (Search and Rescue had a lot of them), my location began to show up on their map display. Attached is a screen shot f a radio silence clock, and description.....many of these of different look and manufacture are on board vessels used in commercial shipping and Coast Guard vessels.
Interesting. I was totally unaware that such a thing existed, radio silence periods. Thanks.
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2 hours ago, gman1971 said:
I think we are a long way from 6.25kHz. The next XPR7550e replacement is upon us and it is likely to be MotoTRBO DMR 12.5kHz... so if Motorola is sticking to 12.5kHz on their DMR flagship radios, it is highly unlikely that they'll mandate 6.25kHz any time soon. In 10 years? Maybe, but not now.
As for the 6.25 spacing 4 pathways claim, well, please forgive if I am very skeptical, as I have serious doubts you can run 4 concurrent 6.25kHz channels on any substantial amount of power without either blowing the other radios front ends or desensing them so bad they can't hear a thing.
TDMA can be implemented over any bandwidth, 25khz, 12.5kHz, 6.25kHz, and while it has other set of problems, doing DCDM Simplex, running two concurrent voice channels on the same freq doesn't require special hardware, or TETRA, running 4 concurrent conversations...
G.
Yeah, I'm also VERY skeptical running adjacent channels at 6.25KHz bandwidth. Even the wider 12.5KHz I wouldn't believe either. Even Ham HT's with two pair of stations close to each other at a 25KHz channel separation doesn't work out too well either.
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4 minutes ago, WROZ437 said:
As a newb I think this is a pretty useful thread. I think this issue highlights the need to agree upon a frequency/channel to be used in an emergency. Sounds like FRS channel 1 might catch some attention depending on where you are. That leads to another issue, though. The higher powered mobile GMRS radios often times don't have the FRS channels available for transmit. If you were stranded in a vehicle with only a mobile, what would be your best chance of getting attention?
As long as the cell network is up and functional that would likely be your first bet to try. You likely have all your important numbers stored in your smart phone and just about everyone has one.
After that it could be a number of different radio services. Ham. FRS. GMRS. MURS. CB radio.
If your going to depend on radio to stay in-touch with friends and family I would recommend you have a plan worked out on what channels/frequency to use and when to use them, like a specific time. The time element would be important for handheld radios. The battery packs don't last forever. So if everyone agrees to monitor the prearranged frequency/channel at, lets say a quarter past the hour every hour, within a period of 10 minutes before and after the scheduled time it save battery capacity. You're not calling at times when nobody is likely to be monitoring.
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31 minutes ago, marcspaz said:
@Lscott do you remember the old white Midland marine radio with the old channel numbers fixed and a click dial? I don't remember the model. This was in 1985. My grandfather gave it to me because I had no radio, and he had to have had it for close to a decade.
I also had a 7/8 wave vertical antenna mounted on the back right corner.
I’m not familiar with that one. It sounds like it looked similar to an old CB radio. At least the radio didn’t die on you when you needed it the most. I guess that’s one main point about the experience.
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1 hour ago, marcspaz said:
No doubt. There is (or at least used to be) only about 5 foot of elevation change between the water line at high tide and the high spot on the sandbar. With zero shelter, 6 foot swells would have put the sandbar underwater and us in a dead-stick boat out in the Gulf of Mexico. There is very little chance we would have survived that.
What was the marine radio you had on the boat? And what was the antenna setup like?
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32 minutes ago, marcspaz said:
We were all very sick from dehydration and really bad sun poisoning. If it wasn't for the radio, the 3 of us would have died out on that sandbar.
This is the very reason I switched to HF for emergency communications. We could have had help in minutes instead of days.
Wow!! You sure were lucky to get back!! I can't image if some foul weather blew in while you were out there what the end result would have been.
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3 minutes ago, Sshannon said:
Great topic. I didn’t buy my radio for emergency use, and I use it monthly to talk to others in my rocket club while searching for rockets, but if some emergency were to happen, I have no idea which frequencies to monitor in my area, or the right way to respond in case I hear an emergency message. I would not want my blundering to make a situation worse.
Yup. Considering the crazy weather in the southeast right now for some it's more than a "theoretical exorcise" at the moment.
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19 minutes ago, marcspaz said:
Fantastic Thread! I am looking forward to seeing the responses. I have real-world experience with an emergency situation that radio saved lives... but not in GMRS. It should be interesting to see who has had some experience.
Even that experience would be welcomed. I'll bet there is a carry over between different services that would be a lesson for all to learn from.
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I see posts where people buy a radio(s) to use in an "emergency". How many people have REALLY used their radio in an emergency, not some simulated drill? What was the experience like? Were the preparations made before hand sufficient? What would you have done differently after the experience and lessons learned?
I think the above are the only real relevant questions. Simply buying a radio and keeping it in the draw with some battery packs until the SHTF doesn't really cut it I suspect. I'll take real experience over some hypothetical situation or simulated condition.
- marcspaz and generalpain
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3 hours ago, gortex2 said:
For the rest of the conversation the other thing folks are not remembering is these CCR radios have very wide filtering aka none for GMRS. Using a CCR base/portable and inferior cable and antenna's doesn't do what a commercial LMR radio and equipment will do (regardless of band).
All of the radios I have I try to get the service manuals for them along with the operators manuals. Being an engineer I look through the schematics at times to see what makes a specific radio "tick" so to speak.
What I've found is just about, if not all, the commercial LMR radios I have use some kind of turntable front end filtering. Those filters are typically before the first IF stage and acts as a pre-filter to improve the image response and the possible desense of the IF amplifier chain after the filters.
One of two techniques I've seen used are varactor diodes or variable inductance chokes. Both are "biased" by an output from the micro running the radio. As the frequency is changed the front end filter is electrically tuned to match the programed RX frequency.
The reason why CCR's are so cheap as you pointed out the front end filtering is minimal. This isn't just a problem with CCR's however. Many Ham HT's, from name brand manufactures, suffer from the same problem. As Hams we like the idea of a wide RX range for scanning etc. however that comes at a price, a wide open front end. To add in the fancy tuneable front end filters adds cost and complexity to the radio.
To show you what is in some of the CCR's I found a schematic, reportedly, for the commonly mentioned UV-5R. I'm going to guess that derivatives of this radio the schematic won't look too much different. After all what did you expect to see in a radio that sells for about the same price as a kid's FRS bubble pack toy radio?
Oh, the harmonics on TX suck too. If you'll notice some of the harmonic tests were done at a load impedance of 25 ohms, not the expected nominal 50 ohms. At 25 ohms that would correspond to an SWR of 2:1 so the party doing the testing wanted to see if the harmonic content was SWR dependent.
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2 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:
Where did you read those articles?
Just curious because if you are doing the activities that are alleged by the Department of Justice in their indictment against the 11 individuals to commit seditious conspiracy charges, it is unlikely that trying to impress others with your radio gear is a high priority.
According to a Department of Justice Press Released, linked to by FOX News,, such other activities included:
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At approximately 2:30 p.m., as detailed in the indictment, Hackett, Harrelson, Meggs, Moerschel and Watkins, and other Oath Keepers and affiliates – many wearing paramilitary clothing and patches with the Oath Keepers name, logo, and insignia – marched in a “stack” formation up the east steps of the Capitol, joined a mob, and made their way into the Capitol. Later, another group of Oath Keepers and associates, including James, Minuta, and Ulrich, formed a second “stack” and breached the Capitol grounds, marching from the west side to the east side of the Capitol building and up the east stairs and into the building.
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While certain Oath Keepers members and affiliates breached the Capitol grounds and building, others remained stationed just outside of the city in quick reaction force (QRF) teams. According to the indictment, the QRF teams were prepared to rapidly transport firearms and other weapons into Washington, D.C., in support of operations aimed at using force to stop the lawful transfer of presidential power. The indictment alleges that the teams were coordinated, in part, by Caldwell and Vallejo.
I just don't see how they would be concerned about how their Baofengs looked as "window dressing."
Do these articles authors have any professional legitimacy or is it just the usual internet banter?
These GMRS forums is NOT the place to discuss your politics. If you want to do that take it elsewhere.
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The best I’ve heard was the machine maintenance staff at a close by business to where I work. They got FRS radios to use.
One day the supervisor called one of the staff. They didn’t answer right away. Supervisor called several more times. Finally the staff member answered. Supervisor asked why he didn’t respond right away. Staff member replied with an obvious “attitude” that he was busy. Supervisor then proceeded to rip the staff member a new one, used the “F” word frequently explaining why that shouldn’t happen again. The staff person simply replied “Yes Boss!!” and that ended that communication.
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4 hours ago, gman1971 said:
And you are right, I certainly don't know how informed or uninformed those people are/were, but do you?
The fact is that some people make fun of people using CCRs (regardless of where, and how they are/were used) but they are using CCRs themselves too... that is the hilarious part.
CCR’s have their place. But I wouldn’t recommend one if you’re depending on it to save your life.
Articles I’ve read the people in the photos likely got the radios more for appearances. It’s part of the “costume” to impress people along with the military type fatigues. Any of them that truly thought they were reliable never tested a sample, bounce one off the cement a few times and get it soaked with rain water, see if it still works. I dropped my BTECH tri-band HT on the floor from a high top table at Twin Peaks just once. The speaker got buggered up. Those cheap radios are fragile.
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1 minute ago, gman1971 said:
Its easy to make fun of uninformed people for purchasing CCR garbage radios... except these informed radio people making fun are also purchasing those pieces of crap themselves like they are something special...
G.
Might have it all wrong. Maybe they got the CCR's because the FBI undercover agents wouldn't take them seriously, leave them alone, and just follow the guys around using Motorola radios. The FBI would figure those guys are the smart ones.
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One shows up at an event like 1/6 and then bets their safety on a $30 Chinese radio? Yeah they should be prosecuted, for stupidly.
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Just for the record this is the FCC rule part covering public safety frequencies.
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3 minutes ago, gortex2 said:
@Lscott Yes it would, but most commercial installations have no issues with getting proper links. I know some locations can be challenging to get a Fiber or Highspeed connection but I have seen Microwave links to another location to grab an ISP from. Alot of the commercial LMR stuff I have seen and worked on was done this way if there was not fiber to the site. More and more public safety is getting Fiber to sites as a redundant link and with coordination can be very beneficial to other users on that site.
So a fiber link would be more reliable than a cable link? I would agree if we're talking about a cheap DSL connection to the local telco.
Just for information purposes what is the typical link speed you think, or based on experience, makes a high quality link for VOIP traffic between linked repeaters?
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1 hour ago, gortex2 said:
As a public safety user and administrator I never took any shots at Public safety. My comment was and still stand that Hams nor GMRS users have any authority to program public safety channels in their radios for transmit. I feel the user has enough info from this post. I don't endorse nor support the use of illegal radio operations regardless of reason.
Well what about all the old boat anchor equipment out there using analog VFO's? Those radios can very easily run outside of the official band limits. As a Ham it's YOUR responsibility to ensure station operation occurs within the service's band limits. In fact crystal calibrators were popular projects at the time to check RX and TX dial calibration. Some radios had them built in. Hams have gotten spoiled by the firmware in modern radios that prevent out of band operation.
So would the section referenced in a prior post now make owning one of those old radios illegal?
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1 hour ago, gortex2 said:
That was my point. Most hams are dirt cheap. They wont spend $100 a month on a good ethernet link for a tower site. Quality costs money.
Wouldn't that also be true with other digital voice modes using Internet linked repeaters? That would be independent of whose equipment was used at the end points for the RF part.
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3 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:
I’m going to look into that a bit more. It would be nice to have some cheap hardware that does digital modes that would be costly buying commercial radios to do. Might be more fun than screwing around with a hot spot.
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3 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:
So with the RD-5R I have in the palm of my hand: Analog, DMR, 2 meters, 70 cms, GMRS, MURS and MORE!
And did I mention, all this for only $69!?!
It's a cheap way to experiment. If the radio gets bricked with funky firmware won't cry much. Better than bricking a $500 radio.
GMRS Real World Emergency Communication Experience?
in General Discussion
Posted
True. The thread is getting away from the original goal. I think what is valuable is what people really did during an emergency that worked or didn't work. I specifically mentioned GMRS but it doesn't have to be strictly about it. I put it in the header since this is primary a GMRS forum so I figured it's more likely people will have experiences to share and recommendations on what if anything they would do different next time around.
Cell service may not always be available so using a two-way radio is the next best option. However I don't want to give people the idea if cell service is working to ignore it in preference to using their radio. We have to be practical.
For example Marc's story about be stranded 20 miles out at sea on a sand bar with a dead boat. It's fortunate he made a contact on his marine radio and got help. But lets say he had a sat-phone. He could have had help likely in a few hours.