Lscott
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Posts posted by Lscott
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Cons
-No VFO, if you like that sort of thing. I thought I would miss that, I haven't, and I think its been nearly a year since I stopped carrying my Alinco MD5...
That may not be as big a negative as you would think.
Looking at the ARRL band plan for the 70cm band the simplex section isn't that big. So, on some of my Kenwood radios I programed in a series of simplex frequencies like 446.000, 446.025, 446.050 etc. You can look at your area to see what they typical channel spacing is. The memory names were 446-000, 446-025, 446-050 etc. Now when I rotate the channel selector it sort of looks like a VFO. Not perfect but does a good job. The radios I have use "zones" so the "VFO" channels were assigned to its own zone for convenience.
Other zones were assigned the GMRS channels, repeaters etc. That kept everything organized. Then I programmed one of the function keys to switch zones.
Even with a 128 channel radio I was able to cover most of the simplex sections with a few repeaters and the GMRS channels too. If you can find a radio with 250 or more channels you likely can cover everything with spare memory channels for future use.
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Speak for yourself, but there are published schematics, alignment, and tune-up, and all you have to do is ask Wouxun for them. Baofeng, TYT, Anytone, etc are all different companies, of course.
Well I'll find out with TYT. I have one of their cheap radios when I'm not particular about the performance. This one the internal microphone quit working, external speaker mic works fine. I suspect its a problem with the jack or a cracked solder connection on the circuit board. Either way I sent their tech support an email asking for a schematic and or service manual for it. I'll see if I really get one.
As a side note all of my Ham and commercial Kenwood radios I have the service manuals for them EXCEPT for the newest model, TH-D74A. All the other ones were easy to find and download online.
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sellers rarely seem to know anything except that they are radios. Can you point out where this info can be found. I spent about a half hour searching and am coming up blank on these answers.
As you pointed out many sellers have little to no clue, wrong description, wrong model, wrong band split etc. for the radio they are selling. As a buyer one should do the research and know something about the brand and model of radio before bidding or buying one used.FWIW sellers with little clue about what they are selling is where I have got the best deals verses sellers that are in the radio business who do know, and they typically charge too much in my opinion in many cases.
The two things I do is look for a photo showing the manufacture's model number on the ID tag, normally on the back of the radio someplace, and the FCC certification number. From that I can research that model for the brochures, user manuals and service manuals. The FCC certification number leads to the FCC grant info where i can see just what bandwidth, band split and power the radio was tested at and certified.
After that I'll also look to see if the programming software is "obtainable" and any required cables or interface box can be procured, same with battery packs for portable units and chargers.
For some portable units I have checked for availability of cheap aftermarket case rebuild kits. Some of the used radios the electronics are likely fine but the case is in very poor condition or simply broken. If I can get a radio that is fully functional cheap and a case rebuild kit for 10 to 15 bucks I end up with a very nice radio for an overall good deal.
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Looks like it's about the same thing as the Kenwood TK-3360's. They even look similar.
Kenwood's TK-2360/3360
https://www.kenwood.com/usa/Support/pdf/TK-2360_3360.pdf
Motorola's CP200 base model
https://bearcom.com/media/catalog/product/files/cp200xls.pdf
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The point about using CCR’s as an entry to the radio hobby, because it’s low cost, until one figures out if they really like it or not is valid.
However the flip side of the coin has to do with real world performance. Most of the CCR’s perform poorly in the receiver section, low sensitivity, susceptible to overloading, poor selectively etc. A newbie, with no prior two way radio experience, their poor perception of radio communications is due to the budget priced radios poor performance and not really a representative example. That alone may convince them it’s not worth continuing down the road all because of a poor choice of equipment to start out with, and they don’t even know it.
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These answers don't directly answer my question. 65cm (the wavelength of the GMRS band) is ~25 inches. A half wave antenna would be ~12 inches. My home made Slim JIM (which gives me swr's below 1.17) is about 19 inches overall including the lower loop. Wouldn't a properly tuned J pole for GMRS will be about the same size?
No. The J-Pole antenna is a 1/2 wave length long for the radiating section. The end of the antenna has a rather high impedance making for a very poor match to 50 ohm coax. Thus the extra length is due to an additional 1/4 wave matching section, the section with the short length of extra conductor parallel to the long one, where the tap point selected yields the desired 50 ohms. The overall length will be closer to 3/4 wave length long. At 462MHz the wave length is about 64.7 cm (25.8 inches) and 3/4's of that would be 19.1 inches, just what you measured.
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Yeah, but that's vendor side issues. They were on the hook for warranty issues and not getting the support from Wouxun that they wanted. I'm not privy to the contract, so can't speak to the details, but clearly they wanted to stick it to them.
Cricket seems to be going all-in with them to make sort of like them their own private house brand - Wouxun generally makes products to spec for companies buying them, and their radios are built like LEGO kits ... I think they make a grand total of three distinct models, with hundreds of variations. And, to be fair, Powerwerx did this as well, and it's worked out well for them.
Good point.
If Wouxun is not supporting their vendors then as a user what kind of support will one see from the vendor with warranty issues? It would be easy to say send it back to China because we can't support it anymore. As a customer with a problem radio does one want to get stuck in the middle of a dispute between the manufacture and their local sales/service rep's?
Anyway it's another data point to consider when making a purchasing decision.
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Firstly, glad to finally be here. Been a lurker for a while, and the FCC got back to be a few weeks ago, so now I can key up
Back story summed up, I'm working on a repeater for my family using a pair of Kenwood TK-862G/HG mobile radios (the 862G for RX, 862HG for TX @ 25 watts). I know there a lot of 'better' options out there for repeaters and mobiles aren't the best of the best, but its what I've got, so I'm using them. I'm also using Tk-863G for mobile units and looking for TK-3402 HTs, but they aren't 'part 95a'....oh well, still looking.
Current situation, I'm trying to interface the two radios using the KCT-19 accessory cable. I didn't want to use the front mic ports, (I wanted a clean look in a cabinet) I figured the accessory port would be fine for this. But, I cant figure out the pin-outs. I figured I could just take RX unit and run Receive detect output (CN4 #1) to the TX unit External PTT input (CN4 #7). Plan was to use CN4#1 to activate the PTT and just route audio out from RX to the mic in on TX. But that didn't work...anyone got any ideas? I think I'm having issues because one is an active hi, and the other is active low?
I'll try to attach any information needed, .pdf, pics, anything anyone needs. The pic shared is the PCT-19 accessory pin-out. CN1 is used for a separate control unit (I believe GPS), so ignore it. CN3 is horn alert, CN7 is PA..so disregard those too. CN4 and CN8 where the logical ports to use IMO.
How about looking at these handhelds?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184489981820
I have several of them and they work great for GMRS. The battery packs are cheap and easy to find along with the accessories, programming cable and software. The software will work on Win 10 BTW.
https://mra-raycom.c...ct-Brochure.pdf
They are also Part 95A certified, old FCC GMRS section, and are fine under the new rules.
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Are you sure about the frequency, 152.625, because that's not one of the offical MURS channels.
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Rear shot of 8180 2.jpgGreetings to all,
I have searched on line and within this forums on mygmrs and either I'm blind, my search wording skills are that bad or it hasn't been addressed before.
I Have two Kenwood TK-8180K radios but I'm new to Kenwood and know very little about them so far. The first one I've owned for a few months now and the second one I purchased off of eBay from one of those listings that basically told you nothing, I had to look up most of the information/specs for the radio myself. However, this second radio has a toggle switch mounted on the rear of the radio right next to the power lead. Nothing in the listing mentioned this switch and the seller had no idea, all he did was power it up to see if the "lights lit up". There are no labels and when I removed the top cover to gain access (had to replace the power leads since they had been cut down to a nub), I wasn't able to figure out what the switch was connected to.
Anyone have any clue ?
My wild guess is the radio was modified to use an external speaker. The switch would have been used to select between the internal one and the external speaker, maybe both.
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If somebody wants a really good GMRS radio these are a good one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/184489981820
I have several myself and they’re solid performers.
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Looks like the link for the LFP batteries didn't make it. It's below.
https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/12v-series-lifepo4-batteries
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I have several LFP, Lithium Iron Phosphate, batteries. Gave up on any type of Lead Acid since they tend to get wrecked if you don't keep them on a battery tender at all times to trickle charge. The LFP's can be charged up and sit around for months or longer, great for emergency use, and they don't discharge hardly at all. In fact for long term storage it's recommended NOT to fully charge them. Try that with a Lead Acid type and you will kill it.
The LFP batteries have a higher terminal voltage, around 13.3 VDC to 13.4 VDC when charged making them a better match to mobile equipment that expects a nominal 13.8 VDC. When the battery is nearly discharged, 90 plus percent, the terminal voltage is still around 12.8 VDC more or less. A Lead Acid battery is around 12 VDC when its at 50 percent capacity. Most mobile equipment spec's 13.8 VDC at +/- 15 percent so the low voltage cut off is at 11.5 VDC. You won't get most of the capacity out of a Lead Acid battery before the electronics starts to shut down or misbehave.
The down side to LFP batteries is the cost and you need a special LFP charger for them. If you do buy a battery make sure you get a charger for it.
I also have several MPPT charge controllers for solar panels. The charge controllers are used to keep the battery packs up.
The link below is for a company that is friendly to two-way radio users for batteries and chargers. I have one of the 6 amp-hour packs for portable handheld radios and one of the 40 amp-hour ones for fixed location use.
The charge controllers I have are from this company below. I have several of the GV-5 charge controllers for LFP batteries.
https://sunforgellc.com/genasun/#gen_product_row
The company below has decent prices on solar panels. I have a couple of the 50 watt, one 30 watt, and a couple of the 10 watt mono crystalline panels.
https://www.renogy.com/solar-panels/
If anybody has a need for a pure sine wave inverter this company has some good products. I have the 300 watt version with a builtin GFI.
https://gpelectric.com/product-category/inverters/pure-sine-wave-inverters/
For connections I use Anderson Power Pole connectors. A good source is from Powerwerx. Also one or two of the DC inline power meters comes in handy too.
https://powerwerx.com/anderson-power-powerpole-sb-connectors
https://powerwerx.com/watt-meter-analyzer-inline-dc-powerpole
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... mine is used, it has a couple of small scratches on the screen...
Just a note about that. I've had very good luck using toothpaste to polish up the plastic screen on several radios I got used. I got scratches out I thought would never clean up. It takes a lot of work to rub out the scratches, toothpaste is a VERY mild abrasive. I used it straight from the tube on a paper towel while using a fair amount of pressure. Tilting the radio so the light reflects off the surface is a very good test to see how the polishing is going. I wipe the screen down with a wet paper towel first so I can get a clear view of the surface. At the end I sometimes use an electric toothbrush to do the final polishing. I did spend about an hour or more on the more damaged screens.
On several radios when I got done the screens could have passed for new if you didn't do a real detailed examination.
If you can't get a replacement case or don't want to spend the money the above procedure works well. Nothing like getting a used radio at a good deal, then clean it up where it looks almost new. 8-))
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1. I'm convering a TK-880 to a temporary base station with power from a 12V 28AH battery. Do the wires need fuses?
2. I'd prefer to use alligator clamps vs. spade terminals on connection in #1. I'm struggling to find insulated clamps for wire that small. (At least on Amazon.) Any tips?
Thank you.
1. Yes you need fuses of the proper type and amp rating. Too low in amp rating the fuse will fail during transmit, which draws the most power. Look at the radio's manual. The recommended fuse and rating is typically specified there.
2. You can try some automotive trailer power connectors. You can get something like the below cable and plug.
https://www.amazon.com/807-Extension-Disconnect-Harness-Connector/dp/B07SQ1G56V
(You most likely can find something like this at your local auto supply shop)
Just cut the cable in half. Connect the wire end to the power supply, or battery, observing the proper colors, red is positive and black is negative. Then use the other half of the cut cable for the radio doing the same thing matching the red for red and black for black. The bonus is if you get two cables and cut them in half the second one can be wired into the automotive electrical system. Now you can freely move the radio between the vehicle and the house, for example, without having to worry about screwing up the wiring and wrecking the radio.
I highly recommend you permanently attach the wires to the power supply/battery and radio then use just the plug. Sooner or later you'll screw up and connect the radio up backwards. When the "magic smoke" comes out of the radio it quits working and there is noway to put it back in either. 8-(
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One other point that hasn't been mentioned before in this thread is the following.
Since the original post requested recommendations for radios, and the usage will be in a farm setting, the physical construction and reliability will be very important. The radio(s) will likely get exposed to rain, fine dirt/dust in the air and likely dropped on soft and hard surfaces too. Many of the cheaper radios will fail. Just about all of the old LMR/commercial radios are designed for just this kind of environment.
For example, I just got a used Kenwood TK-3170-K radio off of eBay, the seller took my offer of $15 when contacted by eBay's messaging system, with free shipping. The photos showed a nearly completely destroyed antenna on a radio with painted on ID and covered with dried up fine dirt/dust from being used outdoors most likely. When I got it I spent over an hour with a brush, q-tips, old tooth brush, safety pin, counter cleaner and alcohol cleaning it while using the safety pin to dig out the caked up dirt stuck in narrow cracks around the edge of the case.
Once clean it looked OK with minor scuffs and a few scratches but programed fine. On air testing showed the radio was fully functional with a good battery pack and a new after market antenna. I very seriously doubt most of the cheap handheld GMRS radios being sold would have survived what this radio went through.
eBay item number: 114446054336While the RF performance of the radio is very important it still has to survive. A radio with great spec's is worthless if it breaks.
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Yep, crank up the volume control to listed to the NB operator, then get blasted out of the room when the next person to transmit is WB...
Yes, I’ve had that experience. It’s even worse on the Ham bands with DMR when stations don’t get their audio levels set right.
Then there is the flip side too. North of my area there is a GMRS wide area coverage repeater specifically setup for narrow band operation.
I contacted the owner and had him verify it was in fact narrow band. My guess is that’s all he had or just acknowledging more users are using narrow band radios. At least with my Kenwood handhelds I can program the bandwidth for normal/narrow on a per channel basis.
The radios I use have 128 channels so I program one set for normal FM and the other for narrow band. At least this helps to reduce the annoying sound level mismatch with more that two stations on frequency when the other station is stuck with one or the other bandwidths.
- Hans and Elkhunter521
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I try to be honest with people. This gentleman has come to us saying he has no radio background and so I gave him an honest answer that would work for his business, as well as some of the pros and cons of using GMRS for business operations. If you read my comment over you will see that I say "If your ok with some interference, GMRS could work,...GMRS would allow family to talk through a repeater" I'm sorry if it frustrates people (Including you) to tell them the truth of things which could save them a headache in the long run.
I agree. Just because this is a GMRS forum doesn't mean it is the best solution for his requirements. This should be a healthy environment where other options can be suggested.
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I did some snooping around and located some info on the Aerotron radio. Not much to see. Just had to check it out.
https://fccid.io/APC9RB60ACC25B
The interesting part is besides doing SSB it also had some sort of digital mode. Also the frequency tolerance is far better than the usual FM radio.
Part 74
https://ecfr.io/Title-47/pt47.4.74
Part 9
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The only Part 90 radios that I'm aware of that used Sideband was some Aerotron stuff in the '80's that worked on certain odd narrowband splinter frequencies in the VHF band. SEA (Datamarine) took that same tact and used ACSB for the 220 MHz band in the late 90's. I'm not aware of any manufacturer who tried any AM Sideband for UHF frequencies with Part 90 equipment.
I played around a little with the SEA stuff and thought it was decent for what it was. They used a pilot tone in the middle of each narrow channel to try to keep everything centered on frequency. I remember that certain voices (higher pitched young women) would drop out certain sounds - I specifically remember that "Six" and "Seven" would cause problems. Put a middle aged male with a raspy voice on the mic, and it came through loud and clear with every test count. Ran our techs around in circles until we figured out what was going on - the higher pitched voices were running right in the middle of the notch for the pilot tone!
Thanks for the info. I never heard of this radio before.
The description of the method to hold the frequency centered on the channels using a pilot tone brings up a question. I'm assuming they used the pilot tone in a PLL circuit to adjust the TX/RX frequency until the tone was exactly in the filter's pass band? The pass band of that filter would need to be rather narrow too I assume.
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A quick search on FCC EAS database, I saw zero matches for the UHF band that had H1D, J1D, J3E or H3E emissions. Quick Google didn't pull anything up at all.
Thanks. I was sort of expecting that kind of result. Given the usual crystal reference frequency accuracy and temperature stability makes it difficult to stay on frequency. Being off frequency by 100 Hz or so SSB signals are petty much unreadable.
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Yes, if the FCC seemed to be ok with that. But, there is no evidence they are. Failure to cite people for use of Part90 equipment is not the same as being OK with the use of such equipment.
On the other hand, since they clearly are not actively opposing use of such equipment, I don't see any difference in using a Part95 radio for FM or SSB.
Of course, as @kidphc points out, there may be other reasons to not use SSB. But, other than for experimentation's sake, and maybe a slight increase in simplex range, why bother? Isn't that what amateur radio is for?
My goal here was to find out if there is currently, or in the past any LMR/Part 90 radios that could in fact do SSB.
Brand Name radios Pros/Cons thread. (Used/New)
in Equipment Reviews
Posted
I can speak to the few Kenwood portables I own. Those are:
TK-370G-1 (FCC ID ALH29473110), 128 channel, wide/narrow band setting per channel
TK-3170-1 (FCC ID ALH34713110), 128 channel, wide/narrow band setting per channel
TK-3140-1 (FCC ID ALH32263110), 250 channel, wide/narrow band setting per channel
TK-370-1 (FCC ID ALHTK-370-1), 32 channel, wide band only
TK-3160 (FCC ID ALH36423110), 16 channel, wide/narrow band setting per channel
TK-3360 (FCC ID ALH415100), 16 channel, wide/narrow band setting per channel
Pro's:
All of the above are Part 90 certified, however the 370G, 3170, 3140 and the 370 are also Part 95 certified thus are perfectly legal to use for GMRS.
The 370G and 370 are larger older models, built like a tank and a bit on the heavy side. All the other radios are "palm-sized".
Depending on the radio they will take either a nickle metal hydride or lithium ion battery pack. Some will take either one. The battery packs and chargers seem easy to find, original or clone on line.
All of the radios, except the 3140, use the standard Kenwood style two pin accessories and use the cheap "Baofeng", cheap Chinese, programming cable. The 3140 however uses the Motorola type multi-pin adapter for accessories and programming cable.
I've had good luck finding the programming software with license keys on line. Some have the "engineer's" key which lets you do anything with the radio even if it's password locked.
If one wants to use the radios for the Ham 70cm band some model sdo cover 440 MHz and up, or allows entry of frequencies below the lower official band limit, 450 MHz, with a warning popup. The radios will operate there. From what I've read the Kenwood radios seem to work about 5 percent outside of the official band limits so for a lower limit of 450 MHz you likely can get the radio to work down to 440 MHz. I've got mine programed that way, and the simplex along with the repeater section are primarily above 440 MHz anyway.
I've had good luck finding operator and service manuals for these radios as well.
Con's:
The radios are typically only 4 watts max output, option to select low of 1 watt. The difference between 5 watts and 4 watts I doubt is noticeable in practice.
Chrip doesn't fully support these radios, and with most of them it's very buggy. I highly recommend using the official Kenwood software.
They all use, except the 370, the reverse SMA antenna connector you find on just about every cheap Chinese radio. I think, my guess, is when they designed the CCR's they simply copied an existing interface design, looks like they picked Kenwood. The 370's antenna connector however uses the old Motorola screw stud type antenna connector.
No true VFO. However on a few of the radios, after removing a configuration diode and enabling the feature in the programming software, the radio can be front panel programmed, but only to a memory slot. I know the -370G is possible since it's covered in the service manual, not sure about the others.
Most of the radios do offer some form of security, voice scrambling or inversion, but legally it can't be used, at least not on the Ham or GMRS services. For Part 90 service I don't think that's a problem.