Ian
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Posts posted by Ian
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But it's important to realize when it's not practical to pay for more selectivity. Good commercial handhelds have enough selectivity to allow full-duplex operation by one operator, with a few feet of antenna separation. Good mobiles do better than that. If that's not enough desense protection, there's other issues at play. There's no improvement to be made if there isn't an issue, so it's just wasted money and/or lost functionality.
CCRs work just fine as transceivers for 99% of the population. Yes, they don't work in the busy RF environments found at an enthusiast's base station, a command post, or when working near other operators on different in-band channels. They're cheap, show people what the hobby can offer, and include a lot of features (like FPP and ridiculous channel capacity) that new operators need to find their niche within the hobby and understand what parameters need to be configured to operate cleanly on someone else's system. And when they break (probably due to a novice operator blowing out the finals or dropping it), it's not a big investment being lost. They exist in the market for a reason: because they do work, unlike what the topic's title implies. They wouldn't sell if they didn't. It's important to understand their limitations, but they're not as severe as you're making it out to be.
Believe it or not, the GD-77S is my favorite radio at the moment. It solves practical problems by slinging squiggles, and it's even type-accepted as a business radio (No FPP). As such, it qualifies as the "surplus commercial equipment" that the 2017 memorandum stated was never intended to be banished from the GMRS, and I believe it's legal under the latest regulations.
And at five watts, it's my most powerful cheap squiggle-slinger. Used with Motorola gear (2W) on both high and low (1W), it's absolutely comprehensible in two directions when cell phones aren't getting enough signal to send a text message.
Is it "good"? Apparently not. Is it good enough? For me and those like me, yeah it is. (And if it gets dropped, I didn't just break irreplaceable hardware!)
Edited to add: And at 5w back and forth, it'll reach from handie to handie all the way to our grocery store, and inside too. As far as I'm concerned, that performance is mind-blowing.
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Did you look at the first thread I linked above where, in response to a comment from you, n4gix wrote:
And then, all the way at the end, where bpendleton wrote:
I missed that somehow!
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There is a RT 97 portable repeater offered for 300$ an change. 10 watt output ??.
Any body know this radio?
It's split is backwards for GMRS, and frankly even ham conventions.
Otherwise, I'd be rocking one with a balloon-lofted discone antenna for fairground communications.
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https://www.retevis.com/handheld-gmrs-two-way-radio-rt76
New repeater-capable handheld, currenly in production, $31.19.
Any experience with this, or am I going to be the one to write the first review?
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That's a really cool setup -- keep us posted on what you come up with!
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Hey guys and gals! I've got a big pile of 90s vintage Spirits and Talkabout Distances. The antennas have all gone brittle, and are exceeding the point of effective duct tape repairs. There's a mixture of Spirits, model SV-22, running on MURS in blue and green dot, and Talkabout Distance and Distance DPS units. The antennas are all going, and the decay is accelerating. I like handing these out to nontechnical family members, because there's not anything they can screw up other than changing the channel unintentionally. But RF burns are a bad thing, so ...
Help me pick out some antennae, please! Ideally, they'll be visually distinctive; Motorola's latest ones are stamped with UHF and VHF, which is nice, but I'm open to third-party ones and have a mild preference for silicone jacketing.
Thanks!
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https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/1448-seeking-logical-rationale-for-type-95/?p=13112
I believe that using the UV-82C for GMRS would be legal, per the two-year-old FCC guidance linked here. Then again, the left hand seems unsure of what the right hand is doing, and there's a distressing lack of new-production GMRS radios capable of operating to the limits of permitted emissions. This'll be a good time to get the popcorn out... But I'm no longer afraid to transmit with my Radioddity GD-77s (which I've long used for scanning repeaters).
https://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/presentations/files/nov17/54-Part-95-Misc-Eqpt-Filing-r1-TH.pdf -
That FCC publication strongly implies that part 90 radios may be used on part 95 without specific certification; it also implies that 90/95 dual service certification will continue to be available.
The way I see it, the golden radio is something like the GD-77s -- part 90 certified ham radios. They'll tune the whole 70cm band, and the 90 cert implies it may be used on GMRS, per that publication.
- ratkin and DeoVindice
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Why there's a prohibition of having amateur and GMRS channels together on the same Part 90-certified and 'otherwise compliant' radio, I don't know. I would expect it to be a prohibition of marketing dual-service radios, given the difference in intended use and operational procedures between the two services.
https://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/presentations/files/nov17/54-Part-95-Misc-Eqpt-Filing-r1-TH.pdf
Page 13, second bullet. Emphasis mine:
n149 Several commenters are concerned that the proposal to prohibit combination radios would prevent GMRS licensees from using surplus Part 90 equipment in GMRS. ... This is not our intent. We will continue to certify equipment that meets the respective technical standards for Part 90 (land mobile) and Part 95 (GMRS) in both services, if requested. However, we are amending the language in new section 95.1761© to clarify the requirement in old section 95.655(a) that Part 95 GMRS radios will not be certified if they are equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. -
https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DXFRS800-Talkies-Business-Two-Way/dp/B07J2DGCLT
DeWalt and others are selling FRS as "license-free business radios" now...
Edit: Cobra too.
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I'd also add the Radioddity GD-77s; it's a display-free version of the GD-77, and was in fact the first DMR radio without display or keypad, if I remember correctly. It has quickly become my favorite handheld, especially for handing to other people. When programmed for MURS, there's really not a lot of trouble they can get into -- channels 1-5 are carrier squelched, 6-10 are 67 Hz, and 11-15 are 141.3, with 16 scanning weather. (Obviously, TX locked!)
In addition, it's not intimidating. You just tell them a channel number, they turn the dial...
Basically the same UI that made me pine for 1990s Motorola.
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N4gix, do you have any supporting information on the RT-97 being GMRS capable? Because the way they sell it, you'd have to listen on 462 and transmit on 467.
I really hope that you're right about this thing...
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Enquiring minds want to know... Does this mean you now have your ham ticket???
Yes -- that is a goal.
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Nice! Now I have to bug my uncle to renew his amateur license since he's got a 2m rig gathering dust...
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Happy hunting, Thames -- I look forward to your inevitable success, new friends, and new skills.
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I disagree that GMRS is only for talking to family members on the same license. Here in NW Indiana most activity is licensed user to licensed user...
That isn't the stated purpose of the radio service, but I think it's a better use of the band too. I've reached out to random contacts, but usually they just stop transmitting. D:
My condolences on the loss of your grandfather. That is tough for many of us, for sure.
You put some pretty personal stuff out there... and I appreciate that. It helps me understand what you are going through. Knowing those things puts some light on what and why. Also, makes it so I wish you success and wanting to point you in a good direction even more.
Most of my time on CB is pretty evenly spent on 19 and 28, but 6, 11, 19, 22, and 28 are all usually pretty busy. However, night time it is almost completely dead. Recreational users are mostly day-time and the OTR truck drivers are usually just looking for some quite time at night.
I wish you the best of luck. If I can think of anything else positive to contribute, I'll let you know.
I wasn't doing anybody any favors dancing around the issues. I'm aware my desires are idiosyncratic, and I'm sometimes prickly. I look forward to devising clever solutions to my weird problems, sharing for the world to see, and making friends with the people who have similar problems.
I'm really tempted to put another Midland 275 in the family ragtop, after the 100 freaked out. I'm super not impressed with their mag-mounts, and I'm trying to get Sti-Co to talk to me after early negotiations; I want a fender-mounted antenna that doesn't require any new holes for each of our cars, but they went silent when I pointed out that the sales agent was looking at roof-mount "sharkfin" antennas and I wanted their higher-gain fender mount. Irritiating, but unsurprising. Given the family friction, reversible mods are definitely favored over drilling holes, which is me-having-a-long-sigh motivating, but it is what it is. Fortunately, Ozzie UHF-CB enthusiasts have embraced the handheld control head with 8p8c jacks -- ethernet. So I'm looking for a good way to hang a few handheld control heads in a Tacoma's cab, and moreso a late model Miata. Midland's mic hangers are too deep, and give the weight too much leverage to rip the sticky off; command strips with hooks and "buddy hooks" were quickly winning, but in flor-I-duh, the heat and humidity will melt command strips too! Not quite back to square 1, but it's frustrating. At least the buddy hook lets me stash the speaker-mic on the E-brake while driving, but you really can't see the display from above (stupid calculator display!)I'll probably try to get the rest of my "minimally-licensed" radios bought or installed, and I've got like three cubic meters of the lights and luminaries of genre fiction competing with the ham study, which is the real limiting factor once I get done with estate work. I'm leaning toward Uniden CMX-560 and 760 radios, but I really resent that you can't get a SSB CB in a handheld controlhead form factor. It's stupid, but it's a big reason I hesitate. Given the resemblance between the HHCH radios from Uniden on CB and Midland on GMRS, I really have to suspect a common cheap-chinese-radio source behind them, and wonder if I should go there.
Speaking of estate work? My grandfather had one heck of a run, a long and happy life, and a short illness at the end - just enough time to come to terms with it. Ideal, in most people's estimation, but I still miss the man. Can't say he didn't do it all right along the way, though.
Sorry if that sounded like it was directed specifically at you, it wasn't. I just meant other users might not be interested in talking outside their own user group. This is particularly true for family based groups where the communications tend to be limited to immediate practical matters (pick up some tomatoes while you are at the market...).
BTW, A quick look at the RepeaterBook page for Florida seems to show a lot of activity on 2M
Good luck with your ham ticket.
it stung at first, but the more I tried to reach out to contacts, the more I realized that most of them were FRS users who were freaked out by sharing a channel than GMRS users trying to make contact.
I've got a ... (goes out to garage) Midland 70-1336b 2m rig waiting for some love. (It'll need a lot of bias resistors replaced to access the A range; the B range is very much business only, if my memory is correct)
Thank you! Just need to find some me-time where my brain hasn't been reduced to runny jello first to polish off the studying and take the silly test already!
Anyway, I'm out of brutal honesty, and need some sleep.
Edit: Oh, Berkinet? GMRS isn't really dead in Florida, I just live in a big hole in repeater coverage, and those I can hear are boring to listen to. I gotta believe they're run by snowbirds, who only use them seasonally. Otherwise, it's hard to understand why tower leases are maintained while everything's abandoned. I look forward to our resident mad scientist and his Oviedo project.
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A buddy of mine flies drones. Be careful, left- and right-handed polarization are not the same!
Edit: Yes, he learned that the crash way.
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On the contrary, simplex has managed to turn screaming-at-each-other into smooth trips to the grocery store while caravanning, so I've gotten the utility out of GMRS I hoped for!
Diabetes leads to "hangry" turns quickly to domestic abuse. I've managed to defuse at least three screaming sessions because UHF, so I've gotten my money's worth. Still, I remember hurricane Charlie, and when Verizon was the only network with generators on their towers… since then they've given me two hurricanes worth of disappointment, and my family switched. T-Mo is still crap in a pinch, but at least they can be bothered to ring my phone when I'm home!
Okay, two big messages, I'll try to be thorough, but I appreciate the input!
I have to disagree with a good portion of this. Especially about the "purpose" of CB and GMRS. Depending on what service you are talking about, the purpose is non-commercial exchange of messages, wireless experimentation, self-training, private recreation, "radio sport", contesting, and emergency communication. Meaning, these services are provided for users to incorporate a common communications platform into your life and life activities, such as the aforementioned.
That's paraphrasing the FCC's justification for services. My justification is simple -- avoid getting screamed at. That's solved, but I could do better. (Though I've had to pull the Midlands out of service due to malfunction in at least one of them; one of the mag-mount antennas literally fell apart! I'm disappointed with customer service so far.)
If lack of radio contact is truly your experience, its not the bands or the service you are using. There is a very high likelihood that there are some significant flaws in your radio and/or antenna setup, and I will explain why.
Truly is. I have to scowl at your luck with CB on I-95 -- what channel are you on? I tend to prefer night driving to daytime, to dodge traffic, personally, but even day traffic is pretty silent. GMRS is silent, but the SARnet repeaters are lively, and are motivating me to get my ham ticket. (Close…) I'll try and join the UCF hamfest when feasible, but I just buried my grandfather and my time is an ugly mess lately, so club meetings are a distant fantasy for the next couple months.
Thing with ham is that the screaming diabetic family members are also dealing with "just buried my grandfather" and are short on "bandwidth" (and I quote). It'd be nice to be able to use the cheap radios, but I have some personal issues to deal with, and the rest of my family has more responsibility to the estate, so we'll see how it goes.
BTW, even if there were GMRS users in your area with the desire to talk to people on the same license, what makes you think they would or should want to talk to you?Ouch. That stings!
I'm working on my ham ticket, but it's not likely that I'm going to inherit my grandfather's Japanese-built WW2 VHF gear. Florida seems to be all in on UHF, though, so no large loss.
I should add the Technician test is pretty easy. I personally, think I could of taken the test with about 3 days of study. Unfortunately, couldn't match any test times. Which resulted in a 3 week study time.
Agreed on all points, alas.
Thoughtful edit: If we sprung, as a family, for newer iPhones which supported the 600 MHz band, maybe we wouldn't have comms blackouts and I wouldn't have been screamed at for long enough to buy a radio license and hundreds of dollars of mobile and handhelds (MURS and GMRS) but then I'd never have discovered the amateur satellite field, which I'd be poorer for.
Also I can't change other people, but I still need to communicate with them. That leaves not a lot of high-performing options, and I think I can't afford an itinerant license on, say, Red Dot.
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I have to know, why are you so set on a repeater like this? Unless a Manufacture knows its going to sell 100's of units its not going to put the time and money into this. Even construction sites that only need a repeater for a few blocks install full size repeaters simply for the duty cycle and reliability. Now in the part 90 world you can have your self a Motorola SLR1000 these do analog or DMR and are made to be tower mounted. This is all deal breakers for your wish list, its not part 95 and it will set you back $1900 but hey it is "new". I have state of the art SLR5700's in use on a business system and many 15 year old MTR 2000's in use on GMRS. For the record the SLR5700's I own (2 @ $2200 each) have given me more issues in 2 years than 10 USED MTR2000 have in 4 years. In fact one needs to go back to the depot for repair again! NEW is not always better, the list price on a NEW MTR2000 was upward of $8000 so I am more then happy to run a USED $8000 repeater I got for $800 bucks or less vs a NEW machine I paid $800 to $1000 for.
In your price point and requirement of off the shelf and legal I envision this big lunch box size FRS/GMRS radio with a 4' telescopic center loaded antenna and a rechargeable battery inside. I'm sure adding a solar panel and maybe a dynamo crank to charge the battery, a local mic, weather channels, maybe even a flashlight and an AM/FM radio will help sell more to the masses. This all sounds good (ha ha) but an off the shelf turn key repeater marketed as part 95 for GMRS is just a bad idea. Last thing we need is 100's of unlicensed repeaters all over the place with kids on them causing interference to real repeaters that people invested time and money into. If you need an example just look at all the FRS/GMRS combo radios that never got a licence and the FCC just made them licence by rule, again not good for GMRS. This unicorn you have been hunting will work about as good as simplex without an antenna at significant height above ground.
If this is a hobby, I can't afford it. If this is a utility, I can't justify those prices. Based on my personal cash flow, occasional capital expenses are more tolerable than subscriptions, but scraping up $400 to buy a Drobo was a feat.
I graduated into a ruined economy with a degree that isn't worth nearly so much as my college advice said it should be - would have been, if not for 2008 and the incredible vanishing prosperity.
Combine that with the utter lack of chatter on the radio in Florida, and lowering the barrier to entry starts to seem reasonable to me. There are no repeaters reliably in range of my home, though atmospherics can do interesting things -- last week I opened a Jacksonville repeater from Cape Canaveral pretty reliably. Still, I'm elated when I hear a 5 year old talking to her grandmother on channel 3, because it's the only traffic I've heard on the airwaves that I didn't put there in six months or more.
The purpose of GMRS is to talk to people on the same license. The purpose of CB is to talk to people on different licenses. They both stink, for one reason or another, at doing that down here. (Last thing I heard on CB was a year ago, a random contact imploring all listeners to "smoke weed every day". They didn't reply when I tried to respond.)
The service is dead down here, and frankly so are all the other ones. Puerto Rico may see the point of off-grid comms, and K4SAT may see the point, but central Florida is generally a wasteland, both on simplex channels and repeater, too.
Edit: Just in time to make me a liar, the CB finally lights up. Contact, but completely un-understandable.
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Dare I suggest some radio direction finding equipment, and a high gain steerable antenna?
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Garmin Rino radios have been doing so for more than 10 years. The rino's have a map on the screen. When you talk over a frs or gmrs channel your icon appears on the screen of others in your party as long as they are using the same channel. The Garmin Rino's allow you to download topographical maps and city maps. The units are expensive, with the newest models costing more than $ 600.00 each, they include realtime weather radar on screen. They allow apps to be downloaded. You can text to other users. With all of these capabilities the radios are not very good. I believe they are hindered by a poorly designed non-removable antenna. This should be fixed if the Rino moves to the licensed GMRS only and uses a better antenna. The GPS works fine and outdoes other types of portable gps units.
The emphasis was on mobile, rather than satnav. I'd particularly enjoy it if it was a double-DIN in-dash unit with CarPlay, but even a dash mounted display with a transceiver you could stash wherever under the dash (like a combination of a Garmin car GPS and a Midland with the handheld control head) would have me over the moon.
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Oh, I'm well aware it's a ham repeater at the moment. I'm just pleased that someone's working on something that could be adapted to legal, off-the-shelf GMRS use for under a grand, new.
Emphasis new.
Sooner or later, the surplus will either run out, or get priced out of affordability as it gets scarce.
Hopefully this sort of thing will be available before that happens.
A few quick questions for a GMRS newb
in General Discussion
Posted
Related to the Travel Tone, the Open Repeater Initiative is a program that lets people set up a channel 20 repeater at 141.3 for the use of anyone who wanders in.