RCM

Welcome to the forum, and to GMRS!

I posed this as a "Trivia Challenge" at last evening's club meeting (Lake County Amateur Radio Club). I asked, "Which of the following is correct?"
HAM ham Ham The majority (29 of 32) chose #2 as being correct. Some wag pointed out that #3 would be correct only if used as the first word in a sentence, which is nothing but proper grammar of course.

I'm reminded of this Reddit thread.
 
Also, regarding balloons tailing behind me on the 417…

 
Edited to add:  Thank you for building a repeater that can be used by your neighbors in a pinch!  Especially in a hurricane area, that's a potential lifeline.

That's a stretch. Part of your claim might be valid if the transmitter has front-panel selectable power output and the combination of amplifier and the highest front panel selectable power setting results in output power that is over the legal limit.
But, here's the thing: the amp the OP is asking about is only rated to 40 watts max, which is within the legal limit. Also my TK-805D is internally adjustable (as are many radios) to 5 watts output.
 
Let's take that in another direction, though. Using the TK-805D as an example again, the factory output setting is 25 watts. It is no problem at all to program the 462 MHz and 467 MHz interstitial frequencies into it. The 462 interstitial freqs have a 5 watt limit. The 467 interstitial freqs have a 0.5 watt limit. So how is this radio Part 95 type classified, since it is easy to break the law with it?
 
The answer is, it is legal as long as it is set up so inadvertent violations cannot occur via pressing the wrong buttons during operation.
 
Now, that does mean the GMRS-V1 specifically might not be legal with the amp, since it has the interstitial freqs programmed into it. That would be exactly the same as programming those frequencies into a mobile radio, even without the addition of an amplifier.
But to say that it is a violation to use an amplifier on GMRS is a gross and incorrect oversimplification. 

That's a stretch. Part of your claim might be valid if the transmitter has front-panel selectable power output and the combination of amplifier and the highest front panel selectable power setting results in output power that is over the legal limit.
But, here's the thing: the amp the OP is asking about is only rated to 40 watts max, which is within the legal limit. Also my TK-805D is internally adjustable (as are many radios) to 5 watts output.
 
Let's take that in another direction, though. Using the TK-805D as an example again, the factory output setting is 25 watts. It is no problem at all to program the 462 MHz and 467 MHz interstitial frequencies into it. The 462 interstitial freqs have a 5 watt limit. The 467 interstitial freqs have a 0.5 watt limit. So how is this radio Part 95 type classified, since it is easy to break the law with it?
 
The answer is, it is legal as long as it is set up so inadvertent violations cannot occur via pressing the wrong buttons during operation.
 
Now, that does mean the GMRS-V1 specifically might not be legal with the amp, since it has the interstitial freqs programmed into it. That would be exactly the same as programming those frequencies into a mobile radio, even without the addition of an amplifier.
But to say that it is a violation to use an amplifier on GMRS is a gross and incorrect oversimplification. 

That is certainly good to hear. I am building a new repeater and trying to comply with Part 95 . Finding a PA has been a worry. Aftermarket PA's are commonly used with Part 90 equipment and as such, I have not seen any concern as to specific certifications. It is the exciter that does the heavy lifting as to modulation emissions. The PA if well designed and terminated into a proper load should do fine.

If I read correctly what Ian is describing, it is a repeater to be used at a fixed location on a temporary basis. And using a balloon hoisted antenna. There is no prohibition in the rules for such a station.The fact that it is installed in a vehicle does not preclude lawful operation of the station when deployed at temporary locations. A fixed location is not a specific location. It is simply a stationary one. Further the FCC no longer licenses fixed GMRS stations by site so there is no expectation of a protected service area other than using care to operate without interference. 
 
§ 95.303 Definitions.
Repeater station.
 
A station in a fixed location
used to extend the communications range of
mobile stations, hand-held portable units and
control stations by receiving their signals on one
channel (the input channel) and simultaneously
retransmitting these signals on another channel (the
output channel), typically with higher transmitting
power from a favorable antenna location (typically
high above the surrounding terrain).

Oh god, I will have to put my flame suit on. Here it is. I am a licensed ham, have been for years and have pushed the state of the art in many venues. Built an amateur radio satellite station, worked the world, constructed a 98 foot tower etc. Spent a lot of money at AES.
 
However every so often I get the bug to build a repeater. I am building a repeater for GMRS and not for ham as my immediate family will not benefit. This is something my neighbors might benefit from as we are in a hurricane area and power and communications are out at least a few days every year.
 
So I am building a 50 watt (wide band ) GMRS repeater with quadruple receiver diversity. Yes folks I intend to push the state of the art forward. All parts will be Part 95 certified. The four receivers will each have a separate diversity antenna  mounted with separation to exploit the uncorrelated multipath signals. One of the four receive antennas will be a horizontally polarized loop to exploit angle diversity. Why am I doing this? To improve the reception form a 5 watt handheld so that talk back reliability approaches talk in. The heart of this is the repeater shelf I am assembling and the brains are a surplus JPS SNV-4 voter which has DSP S/N voting and DSP noise reduction.  Will it work well? I think so, that is part of the fun. Once the fun is over I will have a powerful GMRS repeater in my town.

I understand HAM isn't an ancronym. HAM was a pejorative term originally until over time, amateur radio operators managed to adopt the word HAM as some kind of badge of honor. At least that's what the ARRL tech manual says about HAMS.

The effect of this rule is that you don't violate rules to begin with. There is no distinct prohibition on attaching a Part 95 approved amplifier to Part 95 exciter/transmitter. § 95.339 Operation of transmitter with external device causing rule violation prohibited.No person shall operate any Personal Radio Service transmitter to which an external device or accessory has been added such that operation of the combination results in a violation of the rules.
 
The reality is that a  lot of Part 90 equipment is routinely used on Part 95 and the FCC is fully aware of this. It is inevitable that high performance Part 95 equipment will cease to be manufactured. I say inevitable but reality is that the crap being sold as Part 95 by the manufacturers is narrow band and that in itself renders GMRS impotent. Licensees need to choose equipment carefully and petition the FCC to permit certain Part 90 equipment (that meets Part 95 specs) be permissible. At same time, reject manufacturers who see GMRS as FRS on 15 watt steroids.

If the addition of the amplifier does not result in a violation (e.g. by increasing the output power beyond the legal limit), it does not void type acceptance.
Source: 47 CFR 95.337
 
95.339 likewise states:

That's a stretch. Part of your claim might be valid if the transmitter has front-panel selectable power output and the combination of amplifier and the highest front panel selectable power setting results in output power that is over the legal limit.
But, here's the thing: the amp the OP is asking about is only rated to 40 watts max, which is within the legal limit. Also my TK-805D is internally adjustable (as are many radios) to 5 watts output.
 
Let's take that in another direction, though. Using the TK-805D as an example again, the factory output setting is 25 watts. It is no problem at all to program the 462 MHz and 467 MHz interstitial frequencies into it. The 462 interstitial freqs have a 5 watt limit. The 467 interstitial freqs have a 0.5 watt limit. So how is this radio Part 95 type classified, since it is easy to break the law with it?
 
The answer is, it is legal as long as it is set up so inadvertent violations cannot occur via pressing the wrong buttons during operation.
 
Now, that does mean the GMRS-V1 specifically might not be legal with the amp, since it has the interstitial freqs programmed into it. That would be exactly the same as programming those frequencies into a mobile radio, even without the addition of an amplifier.
But to say that it is a violation to use an amplifier on GMRS is a gross and incorrect oversimplification. 

I use Kenwood radios, TK380 series. Program software is free and they seem much better than the baofeng units. Nice thing is the software for the 380 also works on the 880 mobile radio, so I only use 1 program for all my radios.

I use an old radioshack scanner that has a hit counter on it. I put all pairs in and leave it for at least 30 days. When I return, its a matter of looking at the hits not just on the RX but the TX side as well. Doing this lets me choose the best pair for the area.

To clarify, in case anyone missed it: a "fixed station" is a specific type of station that is set up to communicate with another fixed station. The term does not apply to base stations nor repeaters.

Ok

Thank you for that. It is a realistic and practical description of the situation. Also, just for the record, I hunt with a recurve bow.

Neither. the concept of fixed is really orthogonal to the temporary/permanent axis. Of course, philosophically speaking, everything is temporary. However, there is a clear difference between in motion and not-in-motion. Clearly a repeater cannot be used while in motion. In this case I'd take fixed to mean it will remain stable at its location while it is supporting whatever activity it is designed to support. When that ceases, it will move on.  
Probably the edge case would be a mobile repeater that was only turned on when the vehicle in which it was mounted was parked. I.e. not in gear and the parking brake set. Such might be the case for some kind of shopping trip, treasure hunt, etc. I'd ague that was also fixed, since it did not move while operating.
 
In any case. I suspect on the FCC's enforcement priorites list, tracking down borderline "fixed" repeaters ranks slightly below use of Part-90 equipment on GMRS.

I was describing a legitimate use of gmrs radio. Not necessarily to pursue elk but to coordinate the recovery of a downed animal (up to 750 lbs after field dress. But also to "find" hunting friends who have become CONFUSED about where they are.) ( lost).
 
I was inquiring if this use of a repeater was legitimate as it is only used at camp.
 
Is a fixed location temporary or permanent?

I thought you weren't going to broach these subjects here. Are you sure you want to go there?

Sounds like a nice setup, Jeff.

Kenwood TK-8180H in my vehicle and my wife's van for GMRS, Yaesu FTM-400XDR for amatuer use in my vehicle as well.

I might suggest a little program, I think is still available for windows, if not there are others. ScanRec is a configurable recorder with vox for the PC, and you can run your radio into the sound card and monitor a channel for a week or a month....then just go back and see how much traffic was there when you play the recording back. 
 
In commercial radio, I have used a vox tape recorder to do this in the past. And, while I am telling stories...A tech I once worked with, he had an analog clock hooked up in the mix, when the vox controller came on, it also fed 1.5 volts to the clock, and the clock would run when there was audio coming in. He set the clock for 12:00 and then checked the minutes, and seconds on it when he/we went back to check the recordings in a week. That's how we used to find the best frequency from the 4-5 the coordinator would send us. 
 
Just thought I would share, monitoring a channel all day is tough, it needs to be at a fixed location too, preferably where the repeater will be, and on a similar height antenna. If you try to do it manually...well, as soon as you walk away there will be traffic...or could be. So a recording device is very handy. 

My hunting trailer started life as a 16 x 7 ft enclosed insulated cargo trailer with windows. Power is 4, 6 volt pallet jack batteries connected parallel over series. 4 100 watt solar cells on roof. 4K cummings generator with 40 gal tank. (Mounted on flatbed 1 ton truck ) Radios in trailer, CB and GMRS. GMRS is a $400 dollar repeater made from two Motorola mobiles in a suitcase ( ebay). Every one we hunt with uses Btech gmrs v1 radios or the Betech 82hp. Having a repeater parked on top of a ridge gives solid coverage to both valleys on either side. As this is a trailer it is not used while moving. I belive this makes it a FIXED location while in use. (Hunting elk western Wa. State.)

So I'll throw something out on this topic. I agree the rules say not moving, etc. I have a repeater in my motor home. Its not used while i driving down the road because there is no need, nor do i have an antenna system that can stay up. Once i get to the campground or race track I set up my fiberglass stick, fire up the generator and i am on the air. To me this is a fixed location. Back in my early SAR days we also did a similar setup in our incident command post. While that had a mobile antenna for ease it also was only used once we got to a mission. Both my applications allow a decent install and to date i have had no issues with radios, power supplies or duplex failing me. SAR has since moved our repeater to public safety channels but is still used. 
 
So as you said what is the definition of fixed ? A non moving repeater is fixed in my case.