marcspaz

As @KAF6045 mentioned, you do need to do the test on both ends while transmitransmitting at the highest power possible. I missed that very important step.. So... what is it on the battery side when transmitting, and then what is it at the radio when transmitting? There should be 0.5vdc difference or less to be considered 'ok'.

For GMRS, just use the same type and location I am, and put the CB antenna on the swing gate. You can use a lip mount, just be sure to get the same style that your antenna uses.

Where are you? Like, what state? I am in VA and have a ton of test equipment, if you're nearby. The best way to check for voltage drop is to measure the power at the source and then at the radio. It should not be more than 0.5v or the loss is considered excessive. The antenna and cables really require an analyzer.

No one here was born knowing anything. We had to learn everything. We are here to help... so there are no foolish questions. Fire away. As mentioned above, the Nagoya NMO-200C (I assume that is what you meant) is not a half wave. It does require a ground plane. You can definitely add a piece of metal to create the ground plain. For best performance, you would want it to be round and at least 1/2 wave in diameter, about 12". 14" would be better. It needs to have a ground wire for best performance, sharing the same ground as the radio and antenna. However it's not 100% required. It will work better, though. Also, the top is an isolator, so the plate needs to be outside with the antenna. I would use a mix of 60 lbs double-sided Gorilla Tape (for instant hold) and RTV (for extended hold) if you don't want to use nuts and bolts to hold it down. I know I wouldn't cut into my top. It's critical to keep in mind that if you put a ground plan on the roof and put a fixed or mag mount antenna, regardless of the way you attach the ground plan, it is not going to hold a very heavy antenna. Highway speeds will eventually rip it off or the top may fail, if you have a heavy antenna or something with high wind drag. If you had a 1/2 wave antenna, a ground plane would not be required. As far as a lip mount that can attach to the swing gate, I have have several JK's... 07, 08, 10, 3 2013's, 14, 15 and 16... every one of them had either a Diamond or Comet lip mount. I prefer either the Comet RS-730 or the Diamond K400 with the appropriate antenna connection (based on your antenna choice and mounting type). Be sure to install the mount on one of the top corners of the swing gate, so the antenna is an appropriate distance from the spare tire and carrier. I used to put mine all the way on the passenger's side (about 2"-3" away from the edge) adjusting it so it clears the glass when you open the back window. This kept it away from the window wiper motor and the spare tire and carrier.

@JeepCrawler98 that was a fun read. Thanks!

At least 7 inches, but try to avoid the first 3 even multiples of 7. After 2 feet, it doesn't matter. If you want to have them on at the same time and be able to use one without turning the other off, put them as far apart as possible.

You aren't missing anything. It works. You can position it at any angle you want. It's a 3 axis.

OK, I'm tracking you on how the bar sits. What you're talking about doing with a riser plate so you can center it should be fine. The roof definitely does not need to be perfectly flat. Whoever told you that definitely does not know what they're talking about. The only time I could think of an issue where you would want the roof to be flat or level as for esthetics to make the antenna straight-up-and-down. But even that is not a requirement.. Vertical antennas is going to work just fine even at a slight angle in one direction or another another. They just don't look as nice.

I use the CP5 on my Jeep. It comes with clamping plates that go between the set screws and the body. So, if you don't want the screws to break through the paint, you just insert the plates. I have an aluminum hood, so I poke through the paint into the metal for proper electrical ground. I have used the K400 on several vehicles with good luck, too. But the Diamond has a tab to stabilize the mount for heavy antennas. I stay away from that one unless I have a heavy antenna I plan on mounting, to avoid accidental damage.

TL;DR is internet slang for Too Long; Didn't Read. It's kinda funny. I see what you mean about the mounts. While they will work (as you're seeing) they just aren't ideal. The one I use isn't ideal either, but it allows for much better performance than the one you're currently using. The best involves drilling big holes, which I'm not doing. Good luck! Looking forward to seeing what you get installed. Yeah, 14 is too small if you are going more than a few feet. When I had my MXT500, I cut the factory wires off and replaced them with 12, and 45 amp power pole connectors.

@KAF6045, 12ga was a good choice, for sure. I have done a few multi radio installs where I brought 8 gauge to a 45amp distro block, just to keep everything clean. Most of the time, its 10 or 12, depending on the distance and if its a 100w or 50w radio.

@WRUF442 the antenna height you mentioned indicates that it is a half wave antenna and should not need a ground plane. Also, if you are good with cutting a hole in the roof, just put the mount directly in the roof. If you switch to an antenna that needs a ground plane, that aluminum roof panel will do just fine. @wayoverthere and @KAF6045, you don't need 6 feet... the safe power density at 50w FM 100% duty cycle for 5 minutes is 1.55 mw per cm squared. That is only about 3 feet. But I don't know anyone getting a full 50w out of a no gain antenna and I don't know anyone who is keying full power for 5 minutes either. Most people with 50w radios and a no gain antenna see about 32-35 watts. If you calculate for that, plus 2 minutes of exposure and a 50% duty cycle (2 min on, 2 min off is more realistic), now your safe distance is about 1.5 feet. Of course, the further away it is, the safer you are. Just wanted to point out numbers based off of more realistic usage.

I hope this doesn't turn into a TL;DR post. LOL Randy gave you some good info. I'll try to expand on it a bit. Just keep in mind that this is a Line of Sight service and height is everything. If there was a GMRS user in orbit around the earth, you would be able to chat back and forth with 0.25 watts and have a perfect copy. Start putting stuff in the way, and it becomes a problem, regardless of the antenna or the power you use. I belly laughed at this one. LOL First, low SWR isn't everything. The metal in the body of the vehicle is actually part of the antenna. Typical of most antennas, half of the radio signal comes from an electro-magnetic reflection from the metal panel. Whatever metal the antenna is connected to needs to have a good ground and have between 7 to 14 inches of surface for optimal performance, as well. Our corner caps being plastic may not cause you to have a "bad" SWR, but it will definitely cause performance issues. On a recent offroad trip, I fixed two antenna installs (one on a Gladiator and one on a Wrangler) by just relocating the mount to the hood from the corner cap, and both people instantly started talking about how much better the performance was. On the ride to the trail, we lost each other after about a mile of separation. After the fix and on the way home, at one point we were close to 15 miles apart as we went our separate ways and still talking. Also, I know a lot of people love those ghost antennas, but in my personal opinion, they are not good. The different antenna wavelengths actually serve a purpose. The bare minimum for a good quality signal is a 1/2 wave, and a ghost antenna isn't it. A 1/2 wave has zero gain, but it can hear stations with significant elevation differences. Say you are at sea level and another station is on top of a small mountain near you, say... 5,000 feet ASL. You will both be able to talk to and hear each other. While the 1/2 wave is a little taller than a 1/4 wave, it doesn't need a ground plane, so it can be mounted on plastic, fiberglass or even in free space. A 1/4 wave performs just like the 1/2 wave, but because is smaller, it needs a proper sized metal surface for the electro-magnetic reflection to produce the other 1/4 wave of the signal, making the complete half wave needed. A 5/8 wave antenna has natural gain characteristics to it. However, it needs a metal reflective surface, and while it can hear and transmit further on the horizon and get a bit better penetration of obstacles in the line of sight, it is at the sacrifice of hearing in drastic elevation differences. So, I have two antennas. I use the Midland MTXA26 high gain antenna around town so I can get plenty of distance. Then, I also have a 1/4 wave Tram 1126-b for when I head to the mountains or when I am driving someplace that is very hilly... such as pretty much any New England state I visit, WV... etc. That antenna needs a ground plane. I don't have any experience with that antenna, but on paper it looks good. As I mentioned, it can't hurt to have a gain antenna and a 1/4 wave antenna. Especially because the 1/4 Tram antenna I have only cost like $10-$12. Can you share a picture of the mount? I think most lip mounts can be on the top or side of the hood. I just picked the side so its not in my line of sight. I don't even notice it in my peripheral vision. I have gone through this with a few friends. The asked me to test their install to see what the power and SWR look like, and get very upset when they only see 32-35 watts. Basically, what is happening is, you may have a power supply that is providing 13.8vdc at the output of the power supply, but you are going to lose voltage as the power cables get longer and/or thinner. So, if you test on the bench and there is only 6 inches of power line, you get the full 13.8vdc and the radio will output 48-49 watts (its almost never 50). Then, when you install it in your vehicle, you may end up with many feet of wire between the radio and the alternator. I have seen and done some installs that used 16'-18' of wire. Wire has resistance and the voltage drops as the wire gets longer. Plus, connections that are not soldered nor use a nut & bolt style connection are going to have noticeable voltage drops, too. And the higher the current draw goes, the more heat is generated and the more voltage loss you have. Sometimes you can prevent losses by making the wires as short as possible, soldering all connections, and using a heavier gauge wire. But, you are still going to see losses. Also, an antenna will skew the results too. The only way to get the real value is to use a dummy load. I gave you a lot to read... but I hope it helps.

I have a portable 50w repeater system that runs on 14vdc. I use 2 antennas and 2 masts because they are easier and cheaper to transport than a $1,500 duplexer the size of a cooler. I can endorse that as a method, no problem. It's not ideal for a permanent station, but it 100% works. That said, 20 feet is not far enough apart. Even with as little as 5 watts, I get desensing unless the antennas are at least 150 feet apart. You may not realize the receive is being desensed until you turn the transmitter off. When I run the full 50 watts, not only are they 150 feet apart, but I put the transmit antenna at a lower elevation than the base of the receive antenna, to help reduce the desensing even more. Hmmm I wonder if I should try stacking so the two verticals so they are in the nulls of each other. I might test that. Man... I know RG142 has a high frequency rating, but I would never use it for GMRS or lower portions of UHF. Real-world, my RG142 had more than 8.5dB of line loss for 100 feet, compared to 4.1dB with RG8x and 3.4 with LMR400. Have you done any metered loss testing?

I personally have zero experience with the Nagoya NMO-200C antenna. On paper it looks fine. I'm not sure how a 1/4 wave antenna and a small mount on the hood or swing gate would look worse/not as clean, compare to whatever you plan on engineering. You are describing more, larger parts. Again, just my opinion, but mounting the antenna on the back of the Jeep via a riser/pole with the Tram 1470 will not only not look good, but you will likely not net you any noticeable gain. Plus you are exposing yourself to additional risk of physical damage to the Jeep and antenna, too. Again... your money, your vehicle... but in my own personal opinion as a life long and current Jeep owner who has tried just about every combination antenna type there is, if I were a gambling man, my money would be on the mobile antenna properly installed on the swing gate without the riser and 1470, actually outperforming the same antenna installed on a riser with the 1470. I hope you prove me wrong... good luck and have fun!

I have to say, I agree with others who said you may want to get an amateur radio license and HF radio. Based on what you said you want to accomplish, it sounds like you want a shortwave radio receiver (to listen) or an HF radio (and license) to receive and transmit. GMRS really isn't intended or used for what you want to do. With typical GMRS (UHF) range throughout much of the nation being restricted to only a few miles when station to station, and the service intent, I would say that GMRS is the wrong choice. Of course, there are limited exceptions, such as urban/suburban areas that are heavily saturated with repeaters and users, areas with many high elevations and many users, or communities that have intentionally organized an emergency radio network. Still, that is traditionally for local communications.

Just my opinion, while it will work, it is way too much hardware and effort to make the antenna system work. If you are going to insist on using it, use a Tram 1126B antenna to keep the height down However, I would ditch the ground plane kit and just buy a half wave antenna, which is about 12 inches tall, or a 5/8 wave antenna and mount it on the hood or swing gate. The Midland MXTA26, which has 6dB of gain (32" high), is one of the 2 antennas I use. The other is the Tram 1126B antenna. Which one I use depends on where I am and what I am doing. They both work very well. Also, why do you want to install this over the roof line? An antenna on the hood or swing gate will net you about 4.5 miles of range on level ground, while moving it to top of the Jeep will only extend range another 0.5 miles... maybe. Again, just my opinion, the cost and level of effort (not to mention appearance) its not worth doing an 'above the roof line' install.

Welcome! Where abouts are you? I am in NOVA / Prince William.

Thankfully I have not. That would be one expensive tree trim, that's for sure. LoL

I was playing out in the woods today, supporting a 12k race, and I had this monster in the truck to extend range. I know some of you have some portable setups. I figured it would be fun to share them here. Especially if it's a bit unconventional. Whatcha got?

Not until just now. LOL Seriously, when I made the cables, I looked and didn't see anything horrible. I still use all of the cables. So, I dropped two of them from the gear for a few minutes and put them on the analyzer. The complete cables are almost identical. The values are so close and near where they should be, that for what we do in GMRS, it's not worth calculating reflective coefficients. UHF Connector (@ 465MHz) / N Connector (@ 465MHz) Reactance = 19.2 ohms / 28.3 ohms Resistance = 50.5 ohms / 49.55 ohms Inductance = 45 nH / 45 nH Capacitance = 16.4 pF / 21.4 pF

@Elkhunter521, the rain finally stopped, so I was able to take some pictures. I figured I would provide details for the hood mount, both for you as well as other Jeep JL Wrangler and JT Gladiator owners... but I don't currently have access to a JL Wrangler to get pictures of the swing gate routing. This is just the hood mount. Possibly someone who has a Wrangler (2018 JL/U to current) who has run the cables through the inside of the swing gate can get some quick pictures for you. My apologies if this is a bit long. I'll try to let the pictures do the talking. NOTE: You can do this on either side. I selected the driver's side because it keeps the GMRS radio antenna away from my factory FM radio antenna, and away from the but-plate of my farm jack. First, make sure the mount is at least 7 inches away from the windshield, so the A-pillar has minimal impact on performance (if any). On our generation, that corner cap is plastic. I put mine where I did since I have metal reflective surface from the light bar mount. However, if you have trouble getting a good SWR in the same location as where mine is, push it forward so there is 7 inches of actual hood, trailing the antenna down the hood line (about 14-15 inches forward of the windshield). This will be ideal for a 1/4 wave reflection. I ran the wire so I had plenty of room to open the hood and have cable to spare. It is literally just the cables natural spring tension holding it in place. You are going to want to route the antenna cable behind the fender, following any factory cables that are there. However, I ran mine under the cosmetic cover of the windshield seal on top of the tub, instead of cutting the seal where the factory wires go inside the tub. So, on the other side of the fender, have the cable come out into the area of the door jam. Use a trim panel removal tool to remove the two push pins in the seal and the side panel of the dash, Lift the bottom of the seal out, away from the body, to expose a gap between the windshield and the tub. There is a second, main seal, and some foam rubber you want to put the cable in between. Once it is in place, lower the cosmetic flap back into position and put the two pushpins back. If the cable is in the correct location and placed correctly, the rubber should go back into place with no resistance and sit flat, as it did before you put the cable in place. Hope this helps.

You can definitely use the mount style that Randy showed on the swing gate or the lip mount on the hood, like I have. You can mount all of it on the swing gate too, but I went with the hood for GMRS and swing gate for the CB to keep them far enough apart that one radio wouldn't blow-out the front end of the other. The swing gate is a good place for the higher drag and heavier CB antenna because is more sturdy than the hood. This is my last Wrangler... I'll take some new pictures of the Gladiator in the morning so you can see the cabling option from the hood. Been raining all afternoon/night here. Randy pulled his cable through the seals, which works fine, I did that for a bit with no leaks. If you want to hide the cables (which eventually I did), you can run the antenna line inside the swing gate and inside the fabric tube at the hinge, too.

Issue resolved.

What CB antenna are you trying to use? Something like a 104" whip or a Firestick, or something more like a Willson 1000/5000? I can share some detailed images of how my Gladiator's GMRS is setup (would be the same for the Wrangler). I used a lip mount on the hood and it works fantastic. For the CB, i would recommend a 104" whip and a heavy duty stud mount that will bolt to the swing gate. It will require running a ground wire to the swing gate and the mount for best performance. Other antenna styles haven't worked for me in the past, on the Wrangler.