quarterwave

I tried to register in to Repeater Finder and couldn't. Turns out my login for this site got me in, seems to be same data, I can't edit mine, but yeah...I was confused too!
 
Added: I just noticed the DB at RF seems to be behind. I had removed something from the DB here a while back, but it is still on the RF site. I added a new one today, I'll see how long it takes to show up over there. 

What is the emoji for Nauseated? 

I guess everything I have ever learned is wrong, guess I should sell my Areoflex and Sitemaster.

Trouble is most people dont understand what S/N ratio, insertion loss, return loss, impedance, noise floor, velocity factor etc even are. The Yagi example has noting to go with gain at all. I have shown countless people using calibrated industry standard equipment RX gain is nothing more then S/N. If you take a 3dB Yagi and a 18dB yagi, mount them in a fixed position at a fixed signal the uV level received by the test equipment is going to be the same. This is why filtering, pre-amps and attenuator's have a place. Simple really, a filter to reduce the S/N ratio and provide adjacent channel rejection, pre-amp to boost the signal and proper attenuation to lower the noise floor.

Antenna gain is selected based on the site and required coverage area. It is a total misconception that more gain is better. Depending on the antenna height and terrain you can do more damage then good with higher gain. Site engineering is an important part of any system, science and methodology will always provide the best results over what one may think. Unless you are stacking UHF Yagis you will gain nothing by phasing omni's together, you would be better off setting them up diversity using power dividers but this involves its own engineering and the proper test equipment. Co phasing omni's was and still is popular for 10 and 11 meter but that is HF AM not UHF.
 
I currently have several DB-420, DB-411, DB-408, DB-404 and a single Sinclair SC329-HF2LDF in use at different sites both part 90 Commercial and GMRS. Each one selected for the installation and desired coverage. The antenna is the biggest factor in any radio system with the coax the second, trust the science. I have and still do see allot of people wasting money and being unhappy with system performance over bad antenna selection.
 
Just my $.02 
Corey

It seems to me this has come up a few times over the last year . I always used the donation approach. I have alot of money invested in repeaters, antenna and cables. If folks want to donate great, if not its on me to cover the costs. I didn't put them on the air to make money, I put them there to use. If others can use it and can afford to help with electric or repairs great. If not its up to me. What your proposing is a LMR system. I for one dont believe in not letting folks use it if they can't afford it. 

I just want to know where all these people willing to pay a 100 per year to use the repeaters are! Lets face it, my network covers 3 states and several 1000 sq miles and we have 51 users. Anytime I have needed help with climbers or manpower its always my same core group standing in the driveway. What you are talking about is basically a part 90 community repeater service not GMRS. Again as i stated selling tones is not legal...nor welcome.
 
I would like to hear Pastor Gary's thoughts?

It's not like FB4 / FB6 in part 90. 
 
As told several ways above...unless it's a variable cost / charge model covering only actual operating expenses in a co-op style function, it's not legal...nor welcome if you ask me, in GMRS. 

Which brings up a good topic...
 
If there are now radios sold that have the original FRS low side channels (Like Ch 1 462.5625) that were always half watt, and are now 2 watts. Plus they now have the GMRS mains to use at 2 watts... It's really hard to tell who is using FRS for business (which is technically ok, but businesses should take the high road and buy real radios), and who is using GMRS radios that can run on 5 watts for these channels, illegally. How are we going to know? We're not. Now I'm not saying anyone but the diehards like us here will think of this and jump on the chance to ambiguously use GMRS radios at 5 watts under the guise of FRS just to get full power, but you never know. 
 
BTW - is anyone making the new radios with 2w on FRS yet? I haven't really checked myself. 

It's not like FB4 / FB6 in part 90. 
 
As told several ways above...unless it's a variable cost / charge model covering only actual operating expenses in a co-op style function, it's not legal...nor welcome if you ask me, in GMRS. 

Oh give them 20 years or so... 
 
If you are new to GMRS and radio all together.... keep in mind many who have been at this for years in all forms of radio have a "common sense" approach to things...goes with that "spirit" of the rule type deal. There are 20 guys a day that get into GMRS and think they have found some incredible new discovery in capability that no one else has thought of....but it isn't practical, isn't legal, and doesn't meet the common sense test. 

Oh give them 20 years or so... 
 
If you are new to GMRS and radio all together.... keep in mind many who have been at this for years in all forms of radio have a "common sense" approach to things...goes with that "spirit" of the rule type deal. There are 20 guys a day that get into GMRS and think they have found some incredible new discovery in capability that no one else has thought of....but it isn't practical, isn't legal, and doesn't meet the common sense test. 

Oh give them 20 years or so... 
 
If you are new to GMRS and radio all together.... keep in mind many who have been at this for years in all forms of radio have a "common sense" approach to things...goes with that "spirit" of the rule type deal. There are 20 guys a day that get into GMRS and think they have found some incredible new discovery in capability that no one else has thought of....but it isn't practical, isn't legal, and doesn't meet the common sense test. 

I use an old radioshack scanner that has a hit counter on it. I put all pairs in and leave it for at least 30 days. When I return, its a matter of looking at the hits not just on the RX but the TX side as well. Doing this lets me choose the best pair for the area.

I might suggest a little program, I think is still available for windows, if not there are others. ScanRec is a configurable recorder with vox for the PC, and you can run your radio into the sound card and monitor a channel for a week or a month....then just go back and see how much traffic was there when you play the recording back. 
 
In commercial radio, I have used a vox tape recorder to do this in the past. And, while I am telling stories...A tech I once worked with, he had an analog clock hooked up in the mix, when the vox controller came on, it also fed 1.5 volts to the clock, and the clock would run when there was audio coming in. He set the clock for 12:00 and then checked the minutes, and seconds on it when he/we went back to check the recordings in a week. That's how we used to find the best frequency from the 4-5 the coordinator would send us. 
 
Just thought I would share, monitoring a channel all day is tough, it needs to be at a fixed location too, preferably where the repeater will be, and on a similar height antenna. If you try to do it manually...well, as soon as you walk away there will be traffic...or could be. So a recording device is very handy. 

I might suggest a little program, I think is still available for windows, if not there are others. ScanRec is a configurable recorder with vox for the PC, and you can run your radio into the sound card and monitor a channel for a week or a month....then just go back and see how much traffic was there when you play the recording back. 
 
In commercial radio, I have used a vox tape recorder to do this in the past. And, while I am telling stories...A tech I once worked with, he had an analog clock hooked up in the mix, when the vox controller came on, it also fed 1.5 volts to the clock, and the clock would run when there was audio coming in. He set the clock for 12:00 and then checked the minutes, and seconds on it when he/we went back to check the recordings in a week. That's how we used to find the best frequency from the 4-5 the coordinator would send us. 
 
Just thought I would share, monitoring a channel all day is tough, it needs to be at a fixed location too, preferably where the repeater will be, and on a similar height antenna. If you try to do it manually...well, as soon as you walk away there will be traffic...or could be. So a recording device is very handy. 

I agree that most of this usually has to do with power and tower costs if the owner doesn't host it on an owned property. 
 
I have never viewed repeater access as a "right". If I own it, it's use is up to me, it is not public domain. The channel is, and if you want to use the output as your simplex, go ahead. I monitor before I transmit but if I am 15 miles away, I'm likely not going to hear a 3-4 watt portable working simplex. Sorry. 
 
As far as these stiff nosed repeater deals....well, some guy in my, say, region, supposedly has like 20 repeaters strung out over 7 counties, non over lapping mostly and not great coverage according to the maps, but has a real salty write up about "paying members only"....of course I don't believe that even half of his repeaters even exist. Has a big imagination. 
 
I run one repeater that is private (about 25 years) and one that is open (PL, but if someone wants to use it they can). 

I agree that most of this usually has to do with power and tower costs if the owner doesn't host it on an owned property. 
 
I have never viewed repeater access as a "right". If I own it, it's use is up to me, it is not public domain. The channel is, and if you want to use the output as your simplex, go ahead. I monitor before I transmit but if I am 15 miles away, I'm likely not going to hear a 3-4 watt portable working simplex. Sorry. 
 
As far as these stiff nosed repeater deals....well, some guy in my, say, region, supposedly has like 20 repeaters strung out over 7 counties, non over lapping mostly and not great coverage according to the maps, but has a real salty write up about "paying members only"....of course I don't believe that even half of his repeaters even exist. Has a big imagination. 
 
I run one repeater that is private (about 25 years) and one that is open (PL, but if someone wants to use it they can). 

A little snippy in that response...I probably would have asked about the return policy at that point. No sense in being an A$$. 
 
Reminds me of a time I called a maker of a dialing device I needed to use on analog phone lines, this guy sold all kinds of niche tools and gadgets for electronics. I just wanted to know about the DTMF timing and pauses. He began yelling at me on the phone, and said that if I was so dumb that I didn't know what I was buying then he wasn't going to sell it to me. I advised him that I worked for a telephone carrier and I just needed to know about something that wasn't in the specs. It wasn't some gray area device, it was just a device. I basically ended up telling him there was no way our company would ever do business with someone that acted like him, and I hung up. 
 
Checked the internet...yep, he couldn't have sold much, or had any repeat business. Bad reputation. I don't know why people think they can act that way and still be in business. 

You know, it is somewhat amazing to me that Radio people, and the agencies never think about this stuff, and accommodate it. However, a salesman will typically miss it....in my 25 years experience in radio. I think it is simply irresponsible and dangerous for any public safety or public service system to operate without a simplex option. 
 
A local (to me) PD and FD went to statewide trunked system a while back, and I am told they have no simplex. The existing VHF and UHF radio (which were in good working order) were zealously ripped out of the cars and trucks in favor of the new "toys"...which work great, but offer no back up to trunked or failsoft repeater operation. I am told they don't even have NPSPAC 800 simplex programmed. Leaving the radios that were narrowband capable (which were most of them) in the vehicles, and using it for back up would have been wise. The FD kept it's VHF repeater and simulcasts dispatches on it, but that's about it. The PD kept their UHF control base....but only to talk to the service department whom they gave the repeater and radios to. They don't even have the ability to use VHF interops from anything they own. 25 years ago every Sheriff's car, PD car, and HP car had VHF with at least 2 common VHF channels and bases all over our state. That was interops. Now they have pretend interops....patching a trunk talk group into another system and fighting with it and the training to get it to work. It's a shame. Sorry that was all off topic. 

I agree , I've used M1225 and P1225 for years, have several and they have been ultra reliable. 

The M1225 and the CDM750/1250/1550 are completely different families of radios. The M1225 programs fine on Win 7 32 bit or older platforms provided you are using Version 4.0 which is a Windows program. Version 3.2 and older are true RSS and will not run on anything newer than Win98.

Please stop mixing up the 1225 family and the CDMs. They are very different radios, but they do have some common features. They both have the 20 pin accessory port in the back and a mic connector on the front panel. On the M1225, the mic connector is an 8 pin RJ45. The CDM mobiles have a 10 pin RJ50. The extra two pins are for a CDM specific DTMF mic. Both families can use the 8 pin RJ45 mics, however, which allows the use of a wide variety of Motorola mics on either radios.
 
Both families of radios program with the same programming cables. I prefer the serial version because it plugs into my Panasonic CF29 Toughbook. I have both aftermarket cables and the Motorola "ribless" serial cable. There is also a USB version of the programming cable, and that will also do both families of radios.
 
And they do plug into the mic connector on both families.
 
The USB cable is not a simple USB to RJ45 cable. There is a USB to TTL serial module in the cable. You are much better off purchasing one that uses the FDTI chip. There are problems with the Prolific chips that can be totally avoided by purchasing FDTI

I agree.

That would be a nice add, although with the equipment available I think GMRS gets looked at more like a consumer grade hobby, rather than a technical grade hobby. However, I like the concept simply because I have done MRE's in commercial work. Both Public safety and Utilities. In utilities and LE, we sold and serviced PAC-RT's that were connected to low band mobiles, and those were VHF Hi, the PAC was .6 (6/10ths of a watt) on the mobile side and 2 watts on the handheld (HT600 Motorola). We also did it 450 handhelds to VHF mobiles for an ambulance district. 
 
For those of us who are adept...sure, I'd setup a VHF cross in my vehicle.